[Ritz42]

Originally Posted by BLK235iNJ

So we don't go back and forth on this. How about you tune your car the way you think is right and I'll research the shit of this to make sure I don't drink the koolaid the canned tuners feed. I want my car to run at its best without beating the shit out of it. That's all i'm trying to do and from some of your statements i can tell you have not done your homework

You've been here parrotting information given to you by DINAN and their distrubters. Yes just recently you reached out to a burger dealer, but it's pretty obvious you're still drinking the DINAN koolaid, bro.

Keep on drinkin!

[BLK235iNJ]

OK re-read the thread and notice I just posted a positive on JB4. If you have zero to contribute stop posting you are parroting the wrong information especially on heat soak. I'm wasting time providing you with details.

and yes so far Dinan has the better koolaid BRO. And for the record if I were so pro-dinan my car would be there as we type getting tuned.

Originally Posted by Ritz42

You've been here parrotting information given to you by DINAN and their distrubters. Yes just recently you reached out to a burger dealer, but it's pretty obvious you're still drinking the DINAN koolaid, bro.

Keep on drinkin!

[ska///235i]

[BLK235iNJ]

Nice



Im learning that on this forum its just best to read, pick what to adsorb and just do my own independent research.

Originally Posted by ska///235i

[alz0rz]

See my other thread for a JB4 dyno, I managed 351whp/390wtq with Map 2.

http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1012997

[BLK235iNJ]

Those are pretty good numbers.

405/450 Crank at %15 loss. How's drive-ability?

Originally Posted by alz0rz

See my other thread for a JB4 dyno, I managed 351whp/390wtq with Map 2.

http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1012997

[Delnari]

Looks like Dinan heard us here on the forum. They have posted the Dyno Chart comparison on their site now.





Now let the rebuttals restart

[HX_Guy]

Nice to see the numbers, interesting to see how it changed from their first claim, but this is probably a lot more accurate. I think they originally claimed +44 HP and +79 TQ, right?

[Delnari]

More interesting in his charts that HP and Torque for the stock car running 93 Octane has such higher numbers of that advertised. The Stage 2 should get released around the same time frame as the new intake goes to production. Looks like intake and performance exhaust will be required for the Stage 2 with maybe an additional oil cooler recommended. My guess is late October or early November release date.

[HX_Guy]

Remember though that Dinan is quoting power at the flywheel while your dynos were at the wheels, so theres about a 15% loss there.

Taking that into consideration, Dinan's numbers at the wheels are probably 277WHP / 322QTQ stock and 309 WHP / 347 WTQ Dinan Stage 1.

In comparison, your stock numbers were 295 WHP / 330 TQ stock (well, with aFe intake) and 320 WHP / 358 WTQ JB4 Stage 1.

So, you're making more power than the Dinan Stage 1, but your car was also more powerful to start it seems, though some of that difference could certainly be from the intake. Honestly it seems pretty much the same...Dinan got a gain of +32 WHP and +25 WTQ while your JB4 got +25 WHP and +28 WTQ.

[FC4]

Originally Posted by Delnari

Looks like Dinan heard us here on the forum. They have posted the the Dyno Chart comparison on their site now.


Now let the rebuttals restart

LOL!! I genuinely thought these charts were a joke at first, then I realized this speaks directly to the target demographic of Dinan.

The above charts say or mean absolutely nothing. These are in no way "dyno charts" nor are they "the numbers." Have any of you actually worked with a dyno? If so, I'd love to see which dynamometer software can output graphs which look like these. These are simply numbers plugged into an Excel chart, and meaningless numbers at that. It should be clear to anyone that these figures don't represent HP at the wheels, but are figures merely derived with an arbitrary percentage added to simulate crank figures. In other words, again...meaningless.

[HX_Guy]

Actually they seem pretty in line with JB4 numbers, which would make sense, given they are similar approaches. I agree that they aren't the raw charts, but none of the tuners ever put those up, they put up smooth looking drawing that look pretty.

[Delnari]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

Remember though that Dinan is quoting power at the flywheel while your dynos were at the wheels, so theres about a 15% loss there.

Taking that into consideration, Dinan's numbers at the wheels are probably 277WHP / 322QTQ stock and 309 WHP / 347 WTQ Dinan Stage 1.

In comparison, your stock numbers were 295 WHP / 330 TQ stock (well, with aFe intake) and 320 WHP / 358 WTQ JB4 Stage 1.

So, you're making more power than the Dinan Stage 1, but your car was also more powerful to start it seems, though some of that difference could certainly be from the intake. Honestly it seems pretty much the same...Dinan got a gain of +32 WHP and +25 WTQ while your JB4 got +25 WHP and +28 WTQ.

Not sure I can compare my Wheel HP & TQ numbers to the Dinan chart. The only way I would really know for sure is take my car back to the same dyno (they have correction factor charts) and run it with the Dinan Stage 1 to see what the new numbers are.

[FC4]

Originally Posted by Delnari

More interesting in his charts that HP and Torque for the stock car running 93 Octane has such high numbers of that advertised.

The reason is because they are numbers derived from WHP adding whatever percentage for drivetrain loss they deemed would look good. BMW's claimed HP and TQ figures are obviously underrated (as is the case for most cars nowadays), and that's common knowledge. So take whatever their M235i actually made on the dyno, add whatever their correction factor is to simulate BHP, and you end up with stock figures of 326/379.

Originally Posted by Delnari

No matter how you slice it, the numbers are better than my JB4 Stage 1. I think I will go ahead and make the switch next week.

Not quite. You made 323.15 RWHP and 365.67 RWTQ. No one knows the figures from Dinan at the wheels. If you were to compare apples to apples and "correct" your figures to crank HP with say 15% loss, you're at 372 HP and 421 RWTQ. Maybe that day they decided 17% was a better number? If so, comparatively you're making 378 HP and 428 WTQ. No matter how you slice it, there is no way to know which car's numbers are better since both cars weren't dynoed on the same dyno on the same day...however my money will be on your car.

Discussing crank figures genuinely serves no purpose. Actual charts put out by the dyno (uncorrected for elevation, humidity, temperature, phase of the moon) comparing a change made to the car dynoed at the same facility on the same day are really the only charts/figures you can compare. Anything else is a crapshoot with so much variability between different dyno types (Mustang, Maha, Dynojet, Dynapack, etc.) and operators.

What gets me is Dinan's practices and deception which simply laughs in the face of a market which is newer to "the scene," have never really modded cars before, aren't well versed in the world of tuning, and genuinely aren't at the experience level of more advanced modders. They're not making false statements or breaking any rules, but they're merely exploiting a market segment which doesn't know any better.

[BLK235iNJ]

These aren't dyno charts I'm still unclear as to what the whp numbers were.

It's not like an engine dyno was used... so i'm a little disappointed with the excel spreadsheets.

[FC4]

Originally Posted by Delnari

Not sure I can compare my Wheel HP & TQ numbers to the Dinan chart. The only way I would really know for sure is take my car back to the same dyno (they have correction factor charts) and run it with the Dinan Stage 1 to see what the new numbers are.

Ideally, that would be the best way to make the comparison and I'm eager to see the results. They'll certainly be close since both are very mild in tune, but please don't be shocked if you lose power.

That said, I'm also confident that Dinan's product will be more consistent, reliable, and will take the "set it and forget" approach.

[ska///235i]

Im not impress by their spreadsheet

[BLK235iNJ]

It's still 44... 320 stock and 364 is the max on the spreadsheet.

Were you thinking 38?

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

Nice to see the numbers, interesting to see how it changed from their first claim, but this is probably a lot more accurate. I think they originally claimed +44 HP and +79 TQ, right?

[BLK235iNJ]

I just wrote this to Dinan

Guys,
The spreadsheets put up are not looking too good with some of the guys on the forum. They are questioning the integrity of the data. Meaning it looks like a simple spreadsheet. Is there any way to provide wheel horse power numbers before and after the tune? It's very hard to make a decision or even understand what to expect if one were to spend $2300 on a tune. Thanks!

[ska///235i]

Im not hating on Dinan but most of the ppl I know that have Dinan tunes usually dont know shiet about tuning. They just do it for braggin rights so in my eyes this is exactly what Dinan targets and their focus is not on dyno numbers but rather on marketing BS..etc

But I do like their exhaust work

[HX_Guy]

Originally Posted by BLK235iNJ

It's still 44... 320 stock and 364 is the max on the spreadsheet.

Were you thinking 38?

The max HP on their chart is 326, not 320.

[BLK235iNJ]

It's probably typo on the spreadsheet... the website in the beginning also had incorrect math.

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

The max HP on their chart is 326, not 320.