[ska///235i]

So is this why Dinan offer such a great warranty cuz the numbers are like stock lol

[five3three]

Let me get this straight then. A stock dyno (http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=961611) across four runs averaged 305.55 hp. So, if we factored in a 15% drivetrain loss on the Dinan crank hp figures (364 * .85), we arrive at 309 hp.

How is this a tune? So, the only thing Dinan has other than the < 4hp on this is the torque gain?

Without some real dyno reports, this seems like it's next to nothing in gains. I was about to jump in to this but the numbers are not enticing enough for me to be a guinea pig. I will have to wait and see what real world figures look like once some actual installs happen before I jump on this boat.

And I trust Dinan to come out with quality stuff, however they really need to provide some better info here because at the surface, this seems to be next to nothing.

[th1rd3y3]

Originally Posted by five3three

Let me get this straight then. A stock dyno (http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=961611) across four runs averaged 305.55 hp. So, if we factored in a 15% drivetrain loss on the Dinan crank hp figures (364 * .85), we arrive at 309 hp.

How is this a tune? So, the only thing Dinan has other than the < 4hp on this is the torque gain?

Without some real dyno reports, this seems like it's next to nothing in gains. I was about to jump in to this but the numbers are not enticing enough for me to be a guinea pig. I will have to wait and see what real world figures look like once some actual installs happen before I jump on this boat.

And I trust Dinan to come out with quality stuff, however they really need to provide some better info here because at the surface, this seems to be next to nothing.

A 300whp stock dyno on this car is a rather high reading dyno. Unless it's done on the same dyno, you cannot compare results. For reference my stock M235 put down 276whp/274wtq on a SuperFlow dyno. I will go back to that same dyno when mods are done so I can see how much of an actual gain the mods yielded. Going anywhere else, will give me numbers but not actual gains since I'd potentially only have a baseline on that specific dyno.

Dynos are a tool for measurement, however, there is nothing that regulates how they measure. 10 different dynos will give you 10, sometime very, different results

[Delnari]

Received my first install quote today, $2294 out the door installation. Includes $1999 for hardware/software, $175 for labor, $120 for taxes.

[Uponone76]

Wouldn't it be nice if Dinan had a representative on the forums to address all of these questions/concerns? I know I have asked two questions myself and still haven't gotten an answer to either one...

[HX_Guy]

Yeah it's pretty crazy how much the dyno numbers for this car differ. We have someone who got 305 WHP, someone who got 295 WHP (though they had an intake) and then someone who got 276 WHP.

Best way would obviously be do buy it and do a dyno run...preferably before, right after and again after a couple hundred miles.

[BLK235iNJ]

I just got off the phone with Dinan and I suggested for a rep to come on this thread. They are going to see if an engineer can assist with the questions we have.

M

Originally Posted by Uponone76

Wouldn't it be nice if Dinan had a representative on the forums to address all of these questions/concerns? I know I have asked two questions myself and still haven't gotten an answer to either one...

[mazerrackham]

Originally Posted by five3three

Let me get this straight then. A stock dyno (http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=961611) across four runs averaged 305.55 hp. So, if we factored in a 15% drivetrain loss on the Dinan crank hp figures (364 * .85), we arrive at 309 hp

If there isn't a 15% drivetrain lost from stock (320 listed at crank to 305 dyno'd at the wheels is 4.5%) then why would you assume there would be for the Dinan tune? 364 at the crank with a 4.5% loss would be 347 at the wheels, or a gain of 42 hp.

[HX_Guy]

I think that's the mystery we'd all like answered. Did Dinan actually dyno test and get 364 crank HP or did they get a gain of +42 WHP but they just added it to BMW's figure of 320 HP so it makes sense to people?

We need to see an actually dyno chart. Does Dinan ever release dyno charts and if no, why not? Other tuners seem to.

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by BLK235iNJ

I just got off the phone with Dinan and I suggested for a rep to come on this thread. They are going to see if an engineer can assist with the questions we have.

M

Maybe they got Bimmerpost and Bimmerfest confused as they had an official member post news on the 2 series subforum over there.

[BLK235iNJ]

The gentleman I spoke too said he was going to email me material. Once he does I will post a link to this thread.

Originally Posted by hyperzulu

Maybe they got Bimmerpost and Bimmerfest confused as they had an official member post news on the 2 series subforum over there.

[five3three]

Originally Posted by mazerrackham

If there isn't a 15% drivetrain lost from stock (320 listed at crank to 305 dyno'd at the wheels is 4.5%) then why would you assume there would be for the Dinan tune? 364 at the crank with a 4.5% loss would be 347 at the wheels, or a gain of 42 hp.

No, the drivetrain loss is there. 320 is simply the advertised hp from BMW, which is always known to underrate their cars.

I highly doubt Dinan (or any other tuner) would underrate their performance modifications. If you notice, Dinan advertises this as "maximum hp" and "maximum torque".

So, advertised numbers between BMW are definitely not comparable.

Drivetrain loss is roughly around 15%.

[dharo1]

So tune is $1,999 plus install and only stage 1 and we have no dyno results to get an idea on numbers.

I got off the phone with a Rep and they already have a price on stage 2: additional $250 if (and that's what he said) if you get Dinan Exhaust and intake.

Basically, if you spend another $2,500 on exhaust and intake you get stage 2 for an additional $250.
If this is the case, wouldn't it make more sense to wait for stage 2 and get it for the $2,250 without having to go with their exhaust and intake as a must?

Interesting: their 2k tune is worth 2 points towards badge, but their 299 springs are worth 5 points towards badge...

[ska///235i]

The only thing I want from Dinan is their exhaust...the tunes are a ripoff

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by dharo1

So tune is $1,999 plus install and only stage 1 and we have no dyno results to get an idea on numbers.

I got off the phone with a Rep and they already have a price on stage 2: additional $250 if (and that's what he said) if you get Dinan Exhaust and intake.

Basically, if you spend another $2,500 on exhaust and intake you get stage 2 for an additional $250.
If this is the case, wouldn't it make more sense to wait for stage 2 and get it for the $2,250 without having to go with their exhaust and intake as a must?

Interesting: their 2k tune is worth 2 points towards badge, but their 299 springs are worth 5 points towards badge...

I'm pretty sure you can upgrade to stage 2 for the $250 whenever you want. Not sure if that's what you meant.

[BLK235iNJ]

Is it me or are there many complainers on this forum?? I'm part of several other brand forums and I don't see anywhere near the amount of vendor ripping. If anything they seem to embrace the aftermarket vendors much better. The fact that these guys provide us with the ability to mod our cars and keep warranty to me is under valued by many members. If you don't like the vendor just don't buy the product.

[dharo1]

So far I've learn more from critics in this forum than those that happily embrace products, no questions asked.

I don't think this is a haters forum because we love our BMWs and a lot of us love modding our Bimmers. But love doesn't come without questions, concerns, and criticism.

Is asking for dyno results too much for Dinan? Is having questions about hp/tq too much for their engineers/hackers? So they release a 2k tune and just because it says DINAN we embrace it?

We bought a BMW over a Ford for many reasons.

[Delnari]

Keeping with the thread discussion. We now know the advertised price for the Dinan Stage 1 Tune ($1999) plus installation charge and state taxes (if applicable). The real question is how much real HP and Torque is really gained over the stock car. I would like to believe the advertised +44 HP and +77 Torque is what you get.

As far as questioning these numbers I don't see anything wrong with that. The forum members want to see the Dyno sheet proof that these are the real world numbers. More importantly, the power curve of the numbers compared to stock. When does the HP increase, where is the biggest differential, is the torque linear, when does maximum torque hit? These questions and others can simply be answered with the Dyno sheet that most "vendors" show when selling a product. We know numbers can be fudged and some will get their own dyno runs mostly because of additional modifications, but there should be a sheet from Dinan showing us what his tune achieved on the chassis dyno.

Until I see real world numbers compared against a base car and the Dinan software I'm keeping my JB4 Stage 1. Show me the numbers!

[HX_Guy]

I agree, I don't think anyone is complaining just to complain...I don't know if anyone is even complaining, just asking questions. Dinan claims +44 HP and +77TQ which are good numbers, no one would complain about them, we're just wondering if those are dyno tested number and what the stock dyno numbers were.

I mean if they took a stock M235i, threw it on the dyno and it got say 295 WHP (347 crank HP @ 15% loss) and 330 WTQ (388 crank TQ), then they tested their tune and it got 332 WHP (391 crank HP figuring base of 347 + 44 gain) and 395 WTQ (465 crank TQ) but decided for the sake of BMW's numbers to use 320/330 and add the gains to those figures, then fine..no one would have a problem with that.

But if the stock car made 347 crank HP and 388 crank TQ and their tuned car made 364 crank HP and 407 crank TQ, then the gain is +17 HP and +19 TQ at the crank that's pretty weak, especially for $2000. And quite misleading.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by Delnari

Keeping with the thread discussion. We now know the advertised price for the Dinan Stage 1 Tune ($1999) plus installation charge and state taxes (if applicable). The real question is how much real HP and Torque is really gained over the stock car. I would like to believe the advertised +44 HP and +77 Torque is what you get.

As far as questioning these numbers I don't see anything wrong with that. The forum members want to see the Dyno sheet proof that these are the real world numbers. More importantly, the power curve of the numbers compared to stock. When does the HP increase, where is the biggest differential, is the torque linear, when does maximum torque hit? These questions and others can simply be answered with the Dyno sheet that most "vendors" show when selling a product. We know numbers can be fudged and some will get their own dyno runs mostly because of additional modifications, but there should be a sheet from Dinan showing us what his tune achieved on the chassis dyno.

Until I see real world numbers compared against a base car and the Dinan software I'm keeping my JB4 Stage 1. Show me the numbers!

For what it's worth one shop I spoke with today said the Dinan product is the better of the two but that he's never heard of anyone having problems with the JB4. The only issue he'd seen was some jackass trying to save a few bucks and build his own wiring harness.

[dharo1]

Originally Posted by ska///235i

The only thing I want from Dinan is their exhaust...the tunes are a ripoff

Exhaust will get you 3 points towards 10 needed for badge. 299 after and the set of springs give you an additional 5 points. You could be 2 away from your Dinan badge
Maybe the intake will complete your points and you'll a DINAN BMW!!!!

[BLK235iNJ]

It wasnt aimed at you i was one of the first to ask for dyno sheets. in general i'm just noticing there's a decent amount of hating on this forum.

It would be nice to keep it technical or at minimum do your research prior to posting useless comments.

As a consultant I've learned noise is useless...do your research and stick to facts. If the facts are missing call Dinan and get us some details (like I have been trying to do). Thats all

Originally Posted by dharo1

So far I've learn more from critics in this forum than those that happily embrace products, no questions asked.

I don't think this is a haters forum because we love our BMWs and a lot of us love modding our Bimmers. But love doesn't come without questions, concerns, and criticism.

Is asking for dyno results too much for Dinan? Is having questions about hp/tq too much for their engineers/hackers? So they release a 2k tune and just because it says DINAN we embrace it?

We bought a BMW over a Ford for many reasons.