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      08-16-2016, 05:40 AM   #67
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Where I live on the South Coast of England, we're near to the Rolls-Royce factory and from time to time I see the two cars that I'd have if money was no object: RR Wraith and RR Dawn. The Wraith for the UK, and the Dawn for the South of France where I'd have my Yacht and villa (obviously). I've even gone onto the RR website and configured models and reckon they'd probably cost about $450K (each) with bespoke options.

And yet .... even if I had that much money, I'd still have my M235i Convertible in the garage. It's fun to drive when you're in the mood, on the right roads, and the weather is good. It's comfortable when you've got a long freeway/urban drive just to get to a client site, before you even start the working day. And everything in-between. Other perhaps than carrying a big load, in which case I hire a small van for $50 for the day.

I think that the M235i (and soon the M240i) has got such generally good reviews that the only copy that now sells is critical. Hence the flurry of 'not an M2', 'buy a Cayman for the same price', '228/230 is better balanced', 'no room in the rear seats.' etc. etc articles. Most of these miss the point or seem contrived to me, particularly in the apples vs oranges comparisons.
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      08-16-2016, 06:41 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolyan2k View Post
They have pretty much 4 different ISFs, not sure which one you drove. Didn't Camaro kill M4 in every single category including steering and suspension feel?

I wouldn't be surprised if M235 could hang with ISF or perhaps even kill it, but like I said V8 and reliability are the key points. It's almost the same as the original argument about M235i vs M3.....ISF is M3 competitor.
I thought you had a Volvo S60?? Do you have a 235?
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      08-16-2016, 07:39 AM   #69
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I might chime in with my initial opinions after only having owned my 235 for less than a week now, coming from (and still have for now) an E46 M3 and previously a Megane RS265.

The 235 reminds me a lot of the RS265 in that it's a stupidly easy car to go fast in. The 235 is better in that it's RWD and has far more adjust-ability on throttle making it more fun than the 265 ever was. 265 not as good as a daily due to even stiffer ride and generally the cabin being no where near as nice a place to be.

I never really jelled with the E46 M3. I always wanted one. Always read the reviews about everyone raving about them, then after getting one... I never really fell in love. To me, the engine is the only thing that makes that car special.

If the 235 feels like it's 1500kg, then the M3 feels like it's 1800kg. The steering whilst being a little nicer weighted than the 2er, I wouldn't say was that feel-some and is lazy vs the 2er. The M3 is also fairly prone to understeer when off throttle and on the road with ESP on, is hard to get around as the ESP shows it's age well with it's 100% power cuts for seconds!

Seats are less comfortable, stereo is worse. Lack of bluetooth/up-to-date nav etc just makes it feel it's age. The little creaks and rattles that come with a 13 year old car also tire a bit for daily use. As a weekender, it'd be fine but as a daily the 2er is just better.

I also think the 235 is the more fun car to drive at slower speeds than the M3 was, which is probably a good thing for my licence!
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      08-16-2016, 08:59 AM   #70
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As someone who's close to ordering an M240i, this thread is literally my biggest fear.

This fear of not loving the car, or eventually getting over it, is the reason I test drove a Mercedez Benz C450 AMG yesterday - and that was a fantastic ride with lots of power behind it. It didn't quite have the same road feel, but it had a much more comfortable cabin and it was something I could get used to.

So being afraid of not "loving" the M240i is a real problem. And if we're being honest, the car's appeal is almost 100% with how it drives. It's not THAT luxurious inside, it's not very roomy, it doesn't get great gas mileage, and aside from estoril blue that's just been detailed it isn't all too much of a head turner or a looker, especially compared to the M2. So all you've really got is the sweet engine sound and the steering feel. If I bought this car and got over that with time, I'd be really disappointed. But if I was stepping into a Merc interior, that might feel better.
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      08-16-2016, 09:27 AM   #71
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After many years spent in various cars, usually changing every 3-4 years, I think that you'll never find the one car that is great in every respect. So I share your unease that after 6-9 months you'll start to get dissatisfied.

What changed it for me was going for the convertible. I had one years ago and loved it, but it was impractical for 50% of the time. The current generation of open-tops is a world away. And there's nothing like one in good weather. It changes your perspective and I've found myself being a much more relaxed driver with the top down. What's changed is that with the hood up it's close to driving the coupé version (I'm not claiming it's the same, just that it's pretty close).

It may not be right for you but I'd suggest that you give the convertible a try (in good weather as well as bad) and see if you like it.
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      08-16-2016, 09:33 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfbrah View Post
As someone who's close to ordering an M240i, this thread is literally my biggest fear.

This fear of not loving the car, or eventually getting over it, is the reason I test drove a Mercedez Benz C450 AMG yesterday - and that was a fantastic ride with lots of power behind it. It didn't quite have the same road feel, but it had a much more comfortable cabin and it was something I could get used to.

So being afraid of not "loving" the M240i is a real problem. And if we're being honest, the car's appeal is almost 100% with how it drives. It's not THAT luxurious inside, it's not very roomy, it doesn't get great gas mileage, and aside from estoril blue that's just been detailed it isn't all too much of a head turner or a looker, especially compared to the M2. So all you've really got is the sweet engine sound and the steering feel. If I bought this car and got over that with time, I'd be really disappointed. But if I was stepping into a Merc interior, that might feel better.
They are different cars to a degree. The gas mileage will be the same as will the performance. The Amg comes with awd. One is a sedan the other isn't. I think the Amg is more expensive. Honestly if you are cross shopping a c lass you should be looking at a 3 series vs a 2

I remember when the e46 M3 came out. My Bimmer buddies screamed foul and broke out the pitch forks and torched. It was too heavy. To much luxury vs performance. It was too far removed from the e30. Now they all praise them and are looking for manual coupes

Most of the guys who don't like their car came from a full on m car. To them this is a step down. I'm sure an AMG guy would drive the merc and feel the same way. I wouldn't let the comments here effect you. I never had an m car. I had a modded 335. It wasn't a track car. It was a fun daily driver. My m235 is the same. If I wanted a track car I would have gotten an m2 or an m3. But I don't find those live able. Most people who have them have another car they daily or a wife with a plush comfy SUV for when they get tired of the stiff ride.

But if you want a sedan with awd you should be looking at a 3 series. The two is very different

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      08-16-2016, 09:35 AM   #73
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Several posters should just buy a reasonably priced family sedan and get it over with already.

The M235 was made to compete in a segment where some of it's competition costs at least 10-20k more than it does while being well rounded, and for the price it's hard to find something to beat it.

It's comfortable when you want it to be, it's quick when you want it to be, and it is reasonably priced for an almost M BMW. Step up to more expensive cars that are all out track ready if you so decide, there is nothing wrong with that and something that I do all the time. Knocking the car for not being luxurious enough is just flat out silly, this is not an S class benz.

The point is at it's price, the car is an absolute steal for the performance and driving dynamic that you receive.
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      08-16-2016, 10:11 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by nvmaddog View Post
Several posters should just buy a reasonably priced family sedan and get it over with already.
Lol, that's a little ridiculous, especially if directed at me. Having caution and taking the time to really make sure that you're gonna love a car you plan on spending 50k on doesn't preclude you from buying one, in my humble opinion. Some people shop for houses for several months, are you just gonna tell them to say fuck it and get an economy apartment?


Quote:
They are different cars to a degree. The gas mileage will be the same as will the performance. The Amg comes with awd. One is a sedan the other isn't. I think the Amg is more expensive. Honestly if you are cross shopping a c lass you should be looking at a 3 series vs a 2
Huh, really... That might be a deal changer for me. I would think that the M240i would pretty easily beat the C43 around the track, given it's smaller size and nimbler handling. Then again, I am looking at the M240i xDrive.

To answer your question about the 3-series, I drove it and DID like it. But for me it's just a heart feeling kind of thing... If I was going BMW I would have to get the 235/240. The 3-series is just too "regular", drove too much like a regular sedan. The 240 had that special feel that the AMG had as well. 340i felt like a regular sedan with a bigger engine.

Quote:
Most of the guys who don't like their car came from a full on m car. To them this is a step down. I'm sure an AMG guy would drive the merc and feel the same way. I wouldn't let the comments here effect you.
Fair enough, I have noticed this as well. I will still be nervous. I have the money to afford the M240 without stretching my budget or putting myself in a bad financial spot, but it's still scary to consider spending 50k on something I may not like in 2 years. However, I consider the alternative of spending 15k on your average daily car as being worse.

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It may not be right for you but I'd suggest that you give the convertible a try (in good weather as well as bad) and see if you like it.
You know, I've just really never liked the convertibles. It's a looks thing, I don't like the way they look. I guess I'll have to try driving one with the top down.
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      08-16-2016, 10:25 AM   #75
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I thought you had a Volvo S60?? Do you have a 235?
Why would you think I have S60 ? You must have me confused with some soccer mom
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      08-16-2016, 10:55 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by wtfbrah View Post
You know, I've just really never liked the convertibles. It's a looks thing, I don't like the way they look. I guess I'll have to try driving one with the top down.
Well, it definitely is at it's best with the top down. With it up it's OK. But I look at it the other way: with the top up its a great package to drive or for day-to-day use, with the top down it looks great - but these things are always subjective.




I'd still drive the RR Dawn from time to time, 'though ...



But I just need to save another $400,000 or so .....

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      08-16-2016, 11:11 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Kolyan2k View Post
You seem to go a bit deep in specifics on ISF. Did you test both cars on the same day, with same weather, on the same tires ?

I would take ISF over M235i and M3 any day, its got V8 and its reliable, it also posts similar track results as e92 M3. BMW has stolen 8-speed tranny from Lexus lol...shame, although Lexus tranny still shifts a bit faster according to specs
I really don't care if it's got a v8, v12, 6 cylinder turbo, as long as it performs and proves reliable then that's what matters. The smaller engines weighs less gets much better gas mileage and the torque is easy to increase on the turbo with a simple $300 tune. I also don't care where the 8 speed tranny came from, it's not a Lexus tranny it's a ZF, so what's the difference?Any rate, the ISF is slightly slower in all respects to the M235i, is heavier, handles worse and stops slower. The one I drove was a 2014, it was a normal spring day, low's 70's, it was low mileage and dealer let me take it for 30 minute solo drive and it just isn't all that fast and feels kinda sloppy and heavy. I own the M235i so I know exactly how that drives in various conditions and is just a better drivers car, I think you'd be in the minority of those that would think the Lexus is the better driving car.

Don't get me wrong, it's a nice car, but for current M3 $ I'd want that level of performance, rather than E92 performance. Lexus is a generation behind and don't think they even make the ISF right now. The M2 which is $15k less would be an even easier choice for 90% of people, unless you need 4 doors and for the same price as the ISF the new M3 is worlds better in all driving measurables. But, no V8, which sounds like it's important for you. In terms of engine reliability, I'm on my 3rd BMW with a turbo and only issue I've ever had was water pump failing on my 135i, certainly not engine related as they have proven to be pretty bullet prove even when tuned.
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      08-16-2016, 11:36 AM   #78
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I love driving my M235i and look forward to every drive. Sure there are some things that I need to change, but that's awesome to me. I bought it as a mild project car.

Those of you that don't love it please sell it or turn in your lease. I like owning a car that not many people own. There's already one I see on an almost daily basis and another that I see on a semi-regular basis. that's two too many.
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      08-16-2016, 11:46 AM   #79
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I love driving my M235i and look forward to every drive. Sure there are some things that I need to change, but that's awesome to me. I bought it as a mild project car.

Those of you that don't love it please sell it or turn in your lease. I like owning a car that not many people own. There's already one I see on an almost daily basis and another that I see on a semi-regular basis. that's two too many.
Yea I love the relative rarity of these cars. Hope it stays that way.


For those who say it's not a head turner...I was working in a cafe last week and had a direct view of my M235i, which was parallel parked right outside the window. Quite a number of head turns. One even stopped completely lol.
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      08-16-2016, 11:50 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiaoxi
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentZero View Post
I love driving my M235i and look forward to every drive. Sure there are some things that I need to change, but that's awesome to me. I bought it as a mild project car.

Those of you that don't love it please sell it or turn in your lease. I like owning a car that not many people own. There's already one I see on an almost daily basis and another that I see on a semi-regular basis. that's two too many.
Yea I love the relative rarity of these cars. Hope it stays that way.


For those who say it's not a head turner...I was working in a cafe last week and had a direct view of my M235i, which was parallel parked right outside the window. Quite a number of head turns. One even stopped completely lol.
Oh man, mine turns heads daily. I also don't feel out of place at cars and coffee. People check it out there just as much as the next non-exotic car. Let's face it, we're not gonna compare to a Ferrari or Ford GT40.
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      08-16-2016, 12:29 PM   #81
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I love my 235i. So much so I'm investing quite a bit in progressively modifying it to make it even more lovable. Any flaws it has performance wise can be remedied using the aftermarket. Having a car that is an on going project is half the fun of ownership imho, although id see this not being the case for 90% of people just wanting a reliable; quick dd. But i genuinely think a standard 235i/240i does a fantastic job at that anyway. Every time i park up i always look back at it, even two years on. That has to say something when it is stable-mated with what are considered much "better" cars.
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      08-16-2016, 12:43 PM   #82
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For those that say that there's too much clutch travel here's a super easy mod to remedy that problem. Look for my install thread to see how easy it is to install. Clutch travel is perfect now.

http://www.burgertuning.com/clutch_stop_BMW.html
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      08-16-2016, 12:51 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allthatisntnow View Post
I love my 235i. So much so I'm investing quite a bit in progressively modifying it to make it even more lovable. Any flaws it has performance wise can be remedied using the aftermarket. Having a car that is an on going project is half the fun of ownership imho, although id see this not being the case for 90% of people just wanting a reliable; quick dd. But i genuinely think a standard 235i/240i does a fantastic job at that anyway. Every time i park up i always look back at it, even two years on. That has to say something when it is stable-mated with what are considered much "better" cars.
My concerns are not at all having to do with performance. The 235i I drove has incredible power and if I ever get bored of it I'm fucked anyways because I'm already driving way too fast at that point.

My concerns are prettymuch 100% regarding the interior and comfort. The C450 AMG I drove didn't quite have the same steering feel in sport mode as the M235 I drove, but the cabin was a lot more comfortable, had more features (including the HUD which is really convenient to me), and just was a better ride.

I'm sorry but no matter what anyone says the M235i's interior does NOT feel like a 50k car. The leather is nice but it doesn't match the comfort of a Merc on the interior. The M240 would also give me less space to bring luggage / people and I'd wonder if 3 years down the road I'd be wishing I had chosen the C43 AMG / C450 AMG. I'll get 90%+ of the sportiness, but a whole lot more luxury, space and practicality.

The fact that I'm on the fence about which car to get shows just how good the M235 drives, though.
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      08-16-2016, 12:55 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by wtfbrah View Post
My concerns are not at all having to do with performance. The 235i I drove has incredible power and if I ever get bored of it I'm fucked anyways because I'm already driving way too fast at that point.

My concerns are prettymuch 100% regarding the interior and comfort. The C450 AMG I drove didn't quite have the same steering feel in sport mode as the M235 I drove, but the cabin was a lot more comfortable, had more features (including the HUD which is really convenient to me), and just was a better ride.

I'm sorry but no matter what anyone says the M235i's interior does NOT feel like a 50k car. The leather is nice but it doesn't match the comfort of a Merc on the interior. The M240 would also give me less space to bring luggage / people and I'd wonder if 3 years down the road I'd be wishing I had chosen the C43 AMG / C450 AMG. I'll get 90%+ of the sportiness, but a whole lot more luxury, space and practicality.

The fact that I'm on the fence about which car to get shows just how good the M235 drives, though.
Regarding space, also note you are comparing across segments. The comparable car at MB is the CLA, albeit also a 4 door. If you are looking at a C Class, the 3 Series is the same-segment BMW. I left MB to come this way after realizing (again) that the MB just doesn't have the athletic feel I was looking for.
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      08-16-2016, 12:57 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by wtfbrah View Post
My concerns are not at all having to do with performance. The 235i I drove has incredible power and if I ever get bored of it I'm fucked anyways because I'm already driving way too fast at that point.

My concerns are prettymuch 100% regarding the interior and comfort. The C450 AMG I drove didn't quite have the same steering feel in sport mode as the M235 I drove, but the cabin was a lot more comfortable, had more features (including the HUD which is really convenient to me), and just was a better ride.

I'm sorry but no matter what anyone says the M235i's interior does NOT feel like a 50k car. The leather is nice but it doesn't match the comfort of a Merc on the interior. The M240 would also give me less space to bring luggage / people and I'd wonder if 3 years down the road I'd be wishing I had chosen the C43 AMG / C450 AMG. I'll get 90%+ of the sportiness, but a whole lot more luxury, space and practicality.

The fact that I'm on the fence about which car to get shows just how good the M235 drives, though.
Now this I can agree with. Merc and Audi kill BMW in terms of interior look and feel. Not enough for me to make the switch due to lack of a manual trans, but I do enjoy their interiors. When I feel that itch I just jump into my wife's Merc lol.
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      08-16-2016, 01:27 PM   #86
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Now this I can agree with. Merc and Audi kill BMW in terms of interior look and feel. Not enough for me to make the switch due to lack of a manual trans, but I do enjoy their interiors. When I feel that itch I just jump into my wife's Merc lol.
Yup. Guess I just have to decide what's more important to me.

Quote:
Regarding space, also note you are comparing across segments. The comparable car at MB is the CLA, albeit also a 4 door. If you are looking at a C Class, the 3 Series is the same-segment BMW
Yeah I know, but for some reason the C43 and M240i seem more comparable to me. The CLA45 "AMG" I just can't buy with the 4cyl. These C43 and M240i on the other hand are both twin-turbo I6 engines.

Now I guess the C43 is more comparable to the 340, but as I've said before i just can't drive a 340i. Too boring to drive for me, too regular. The C43 and M240 both give that more "special" feel.
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      08-16-2016, 02:17 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Xiaoxi View Post
Yea I love the relative rarity of these cars. Hope it stays that way.


For those who say it's not a head turner...I was working in a cafe last week and had a direct view of my M235i, which was parallel parked right outside the window. Quite a number of head turns. One even stopped completely lol.
Ditto. This happens so often, even if there are a lot of M3, M4, M6s around - the M235 still snaps heads. Maybe its the size and aggressive features, as well as a lack of M2s on the streets, but I enjoy it
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      08-16-2016, 02:22 PM   #88
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I appreciate the material and overall feel of Audi and Mercedes interiors, but I actually prefer BMW. I feel like they are more driver-oriented, and I prefer the overall design. Audi and Mercedes interiors feel... cold to me.
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