[ska///235i]

Originally Posted by YellowMellow

Unless you track, get the AWD if you don't mind paying for the extra cost.

Your average drivers will never know the difference between AWD or RWD and the AWD adds additional safety for adverse weather. Additionally, 99% of people driving cars will never be able to exploit the full potential of a M225 let alone a M235.

Really? Im an average driver I can sure tell the difference in AWD and RWD in daily driving

[YellowMellow]

Originally Posted by ska///235i

Really? Im an average driver I can sure tell the difference in AWD and RWD in daily driving

Please do tell us ....

[hans007]

just to clarify the suspenion.

the m235i has the dynamic handling package with adjustable suspension. so it will still be the same suspension.

on say an F30, if you get a AWD sport package without the dynamic handling package (which is $1000) then the suspension is the same height as the non sport car and it doesnt have a sport suspension. however if you buy a AWD sport F30 with the optional dynamic handling package then you get the lowered 10mm suspension that is sporty.

since the m235i in the US always has the DHP, then it should be the sport one. seems pretty logical.

[velopod]

Originally Posted by hans007

just to clarify the suspenion.

the m235i has the dynamic handling package with adjustable suspension. so it will still be the same suspension.

on say an F30, if you get a AWD sport package without the dynamic handling package (which is $1000) then the suspension is the same height as the non sport car and it doesnt have a sport suspension. however if you buy a AWD sport F30 with the optional dynamic handling package then you get the lowered 10mm suspension that is sporty.

since the m235i in the US always has the DHP, then it should be the sport one. seems pretty logical.

Tell that to my dealer and the BMW suspension engineers who use the exact same suspension with more weight and 40% (at least) drive through the front axle ...

[skunkd]

Originally Posted by YellowMellow

Unless you track, get the AWD if you don't mind paying for the extra cost.

Your average drivers will never know the difference between AWD or RWD and the AWD adds additional safety for adverse weather. Additionally, 99% of people driving cars will never be able to exploit the full potential of a M225 let alone a M235.

This is pure bs... The difference btw RWD and AWD is night and day. Drive one back to back. AWD feels more sluggish and heavier in steering and just feels like a pig between shifts. It isn't transparent. RWD shifts smoother, feels more nimble, gets better gas mileage, and is more fun.

I used to drive my e60 m5 with winters on in terrible weather and never got stuck or lost control once. AWD is pointless on these cars just buy some tires.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by skunkd

This is pure bs... The difference btw RWD and AWD is night and day. Drive one back to back. AWD feels more sluggish and heavier in steering and just feels like a pig between shifts. It isn't transparent. RWD shifts smoother, feels more nimble, gets better gas mileage, and is more fun.

I used to drive my e60 m5 with winters on in terrible weather and never got stuck or lost control once. AWD is pointless on these cars just buy some tires.

XDrive is truly underrated.

It's simply amazing.

Not like rear wheel drive, but with the traction/stability turned off the hooligan comes to life.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by skunkd

This is pure bs... The difference btw RWD and AWD is night and day. Drive one back to back. AWD feels more sluggish and heavier in steering and just feels like a pig between shifts. It isn't transparent. RWD shifts smoother, feels more nimble, gets better gas mileage, and is more fun.

I used to drive my e60 m5 with winters on in terrible weather and never got stuck or lost control once. AWD is pointless on these cars just buy some tires.

The difference is easily discerned by me as well. My BMW isn't here yet, so please make allowances for MB, but the effect is the same. When I drop off my rear wheel drive C class and take a C Class 4MATIC loaner, the bulky, ponderous relative change in the front end chassis response is quite clear. I haven't driven XDrive, but the basic physics pose the same challenge across brands.

As to safety, switching to dedicated winter tires provides far more safety benefit than merely adding powered front wheels to the mix. AWD adds assistance for getting started on low mu surfaces but it's the tires which lead the way in life-saving braking and steering in the winter.

[YellowMellow]

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

XDrive is truly underrated.

It's simply amazing.

Not like rear wheel drive, but with the traction/stability turned off the hooligan comes to life.

+1.

[YellowMellow]

Originally Posted by skunkd

This is pure bs... The difference btw RWD and AWD is night and day. Drive one back to back. AWD feels more sluggish and heavier in steering and just feels like a pig between shifts. It isn't transparent. RWD shifts smoother, feels more nimble, gets better gas mileage, and is more fun.

I used to drive my e60 m5 with winters on in terrible weather and never got stuck or lost control once. AWD is pointless on these cars just buy some tires.

You must fall into the 1%

AWD is pointless? BMW, Audi, Subaru, Nissan, Lambo, Porsches probably make AWD available on their vehicles to add unnecessary weight. Good thing AWD is an option on BMW

[ska///235i]

"ignorance is bliss" ...Thomas Gray

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by YellowMellow

You must fall into the 1%

AWD is pointless? BMW, Audi, Subaru, Nissan, Lambo, Porsches probably make AWD available on their vehicles to add unnecessary weight. Good thing AWD is an option on BMW

No, it's not pointless. When dealing with high torque engines, it is very helpful for transmitting power to the ground without overwhelming just two tires. That's the reason for AWD on high performance cars. But, we were talking about winter driving, a very different application. In that case, it is merely helpful to get going if the rear wheels cannot find enough traction to propel forward, an unusual event with proper tires. A much larger mediator of finding traction is the type of tire used. For those rare wintertime exceptions (and I'm in Michigan) where a winter tire on the rear can't grab, if not dealing with a higher-level performance vehicle than 2 Series where it helps all the time, one must ask if it's worth carrying around the extra weight all year, the increased cost of purchase, repair, and maintenance, and the noticeable negative effect on driving feel.

[skunkd]

Originally Posted by YellowMellow

You must fall into the 1%

AWD is pointless? BMW, Audi, Subaru, Nissan, Lambo, Porsches probably make AWD available on their vehicles to add unnecessary weight. Good thing AWD is an option on BMW

AWD serves it's purpose for certain cars... THIS is not one of them nor is any bmw coupe or sedan. Give me a call when the M division starts making AWD cars. The sky will fall before that happens. Because AWD cannot and will not ever be the ultimate driving experience.

Clearly you're trying to defend your choice of choosing the lesser of the 2 drivetrains while paying more for it. Don't worry at least AWD doesn't immediately cause a vagina to form on your forehead. Takes a few months. Tires and aerodynamics overcome any need for AWD on any street or race car that doesn't leave pavement. I speak from experience I have a 750hp Subaru STi, a 550hp BMW M5 and a stock daily driver e92 328i x drive msport (<---biggest mistake of my life can't wait til the lease is up, regretted the drivetrain decision the moment I left the lot. Replaced my stock 530i m sport RWD daily which I miss a lot.) I live in NY the weather and roads are terrible in the winter and I've never had an issue with dedicated snows on the 530i or M5. The all weathers on the 328i xdrive have almost gotten me killed a few times in the past 2 winters.

[YellowMellow]

Originally Posted by skunkd

AWD serves it's purpose for certain cars... THIS is not one of them nor is any bmw coupe or sedan. Give me a call when the M division starts making AWD cars. The sky will fall before that happens. Because AWD cannot and will not ever be the ultimate driving experience.

Clearly you're trying to defend your choice of choosing the lesser of the 2 drivetrains while paying more for it. Don't worry at least AWD doesn't immediately cause a vagina to form on your forehead. Takes a few months. Tires and aerodynamics overcome any need for AWD on any street or race car that doesn't leave pavement. I speak from experience I have a 750hp Subaru STi, a 550hp BMW M5 and a stock daily driver e92 328i x drive msport (<---biggest mistake of my life can't wait til the lease is up, regretted the drivetrain decision the moment I left the lot. Replaced my stock 530i m sport RWD daily which I miss a lot.) I live in NY the weather and roads are terrible in the winter and I've never had an issue with dedicated snows on the 530i or M5. The all weathers on the 328i xdrive have almost gotten me killed a few times in the past 2 winters.

Dude, calm down man. AWD and what I think of it is just my opinion. I'm sure you are a fantastic driver with skillz to back it up and you have no need for AWD. But for us 99% "average" drivers, AWD plus the proper tires for the condition is a welcome added safety feature. Make sense?

[YellowMellow]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

No, it's not pointless. When dealing with high torque engines, it is very helpful for transmitting power to the ground without overwhelming just two tires. That's the reason for AWD on high performance cars. But, we were talking about winter driving, a very different application. In that case, it is merely helpful to get going if the rear wheels cannot find enough traction to propel forward, an unusual event with proper tires. A much larger mediator of finding traction is the type of tire used. For those rare wintertime exceptions (and I'm in Michigan) where a winter tire on the rear can't grab, if not dealing with a higher-level performance vehicle than 2 Series where it helps all the time, one must ask if it's worth carrying around the extra weight all year, the increased cost of purchase, repair, and maintenance, and the noticeable negative effect on driving feel.

Agreed. AWD + the proper winter tires is the best combo.

[patbrass]

Originally Posted by YellowMellow

Dude, calm down man. AWD and what I think of it is just my opinion. I'm sure you are a fantastic driver with skillz to back it up and you have no need for AWD. But for us 99% "average" drivers, AWD plus the proper tires for the condition is a welcome added safety feature. Make sense?

It's awesome that BMW 2-series gives buyers choices between AT and MT, AWD and RWD and 4-cyl and 6-cyl. AWD is for sure great in some situations but I'm not convinced I'd call it a safety feature. AWD doesn't really help on turning or stopping so it's safer when? When going up a snowy/icy hill in the winter?

In my case, I'm buying a M235i for the fun factor and there is not many cars more fun than a RWD 320HP coupe AWD with the added weight can't be as agile...and yes, it's faster to 60mph but the acceleration advantage is really just the first 30 ft. (I made up the 30 ft thing to make my point!)

[YellowMellow]

Originally Posted by patbrass

It's awesome that BMW 2-series gives buyers choices between AT and MT, AWD and RWD and 4-cyl and 6-cyl. AWD is for sure great in some situations but I'm not convinced I'd call it a safety feature. AWD doesn't really help on turning or stopping so it's safer when? When going up a snowy/icy hill in the winter?

In my case, I'm buying a M235i for the fun factor and there is not many cars more fun than a RWD 320HP coupe AWD with the added weight can't be as agile...and yes, it's faster to 60mph but the acceleration advantage is really just the first 30 ft. (I made up the 30 ft thing to make my point!)

Here is what BMW says about their xDrive: "Finally, this new edition to the lineup adds the advantages of xDrive, providing traction, directional stability, and safety"

ref: http://www.bmwusa.com/standard/conte...s/default.aspx

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by YellowMellow

Agreed. AWD + the proper winter tires is the best combo.

Touche! But, I don't think that is what I had agreed to! That combo does provide the fractionally-ultimate winter set-up, but at a cost:benefit ratio not all would find positive. I've got two cars now...one rear wheel drive and one all wheel drive, and both wear Blizzaks in the winter. The marginal benefit of the AWD for a bit better "get-going" traction when both rear tires can't find traction is not worth lugging around all year the extra weight and losing the better steering feel and response of rear wheel drive. Also, purchase price and maintenance make the case even worse. I buy and install winter tires, but when it comes to AWD for me for the maximum "fun" car....pass. (I couldn't find a model of our second "family" car without AWD available in stock, so we took the otherwise-perfect AWD the dealer had.)

Originally Posted by YellowMellow

Here is what BMW says about their xDrive: "Finally, this new edition to the lineup adds the advantages of xDrive, providing traction, directional stability, and safety"

ref: http://www.bmwusa.com/standard/conte...s/default.aspx

Well, of course they do! They are selling it! That statement does not indicate what degree of improvement is offered, but agreeing it is directionally true, no matter the increment, the statement passes FTC requirements for a non-deceptive marketing communications statement. Again, it's an individual cost:benefit analysis. Some upside....for me and some others, too much downside.

[SJL]

sDrive would be better for the handling and for the sheer driving pleasure .

xDrive probably for more traction grip on slippery roads during winter I guess . Also more suited for drag racers

[midwest 340xi 6sp]

[QUOTE=skunkd;16324408]Give me a call when the M division starts making AWD cars. The sky will fall before that happens. Because AWD cannot and will not ever be the ultimate driving experience.

It's just a matter of when, not if

[ska///235i]

Ppl always think awd gives better traction lol...its the tires that give traction

Here in New England winter I see more AWD cars end up in the ditch cuz the drivers think they're invincible

[YellowMellow]

My understanding is that BMW is considering AWD for the next M5.
MB has already taken the plunge with AWD in their latest AMGs.

Say what you want to say, I understand that AWD is not for everyone but thats the beauty of choices - BMW makes RWD and AWD

[skunkd]

You guys seriously have major issues if you are buying a 2 door coupe or sedan for winter driving conditions. I understand not everyone can afford more than one vehicle or wants two or more. But get a crossover or SUV if all you want to talk about is traction in the winter. You shouldn't even be looking at cars. Because ground clearance and larger tires for potholes and poor roads are also issues that AWD on a Bmw coupe does not address.


AMG is not and will never be ///M. AMG's drive like minivans compared to the respective BMW counterparts. They are FAST grocery getters. Also, Audi has had quattro on all S and RS class cars since the beginning of time. All the reviews of the AMG were meh... understeer, no fun but quick.