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      04-10-2014, 02:54 AM   #23
Lorde
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lichenlt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gins View Post
Average wealth of an adult in the U.S. $44k USD.

Average wealth of an Australian adult... $225k USD.

The Aussies pay out the ass in tax and cost of living is 30% higher, but damn if they aren't well compensated... Aussie dollar is almost equivalent to the USD.
The pricing of luxury cars doesn't have anything to do average wealth. High average wealth certainly does not mean $79k for M235i isn't expensive. It costs essentially the same to manufacture for both US and Australia markets. The only difference is in the taxes, dealer cost (labor and infrastructure), and marketing in the country in question. I didn't do any research on this, but I doubt the differences in cost to sell in Australia make up the premium in pricing. Bottom line, the pricing does not have much to do with average wealth. If you want evidence, just take a look at the pricing of luxury cars in China, Singapore, and other Asian countries.
I was trying to simplify it for the average bimmerpost reader, but what people can afford is only one side of the coin. To put this to rest, here is a comprehensive explanation as to why cars cost so much in Australia.

"Our dollar is nearly level with the US but our cars cost much more...

AMERICANS pay about half of what we pay for new cars and we're not happy. It's not only the customer who's not happy - even the car distributors and dealers are spitting chips.

The enormous difference surfaced in the past few months when the Australian dollar reached parity with the US currency. Immediately we started asking why a Lexus LS460 costs an Australian a sizeable $191,200 - but an American pays $66,230.That's about a third of what we pay.

It's nothing to do with Lexus and the luxury brand isn't alone - all cars are cheaper in the US. We priced a Porsche Carrera S at $88,800 in the US - the same price as what we pay for a base-model diesel Land Cruiser GXL.But in Australia, the Porche costs us $282,800 - three times the US price.

As the words 'rip off' resonate in our ears, we applied the same comparison to Mercedes-Benz and still we're looking at paying three times the price for luxury cars.

Mercedes-Benz Australia spokesman David McCarthy says there are crucial differences between the two markets and that flows onto the retail prices.

'Basically, we pay more tax,' he says. 'There is GST, luxury-car tax and import tax on each car.

'That's the starting point. Australia is a tiny market - we have a one-million a year vehicle market, the US is about 13 million. You get a discount for buying in volume.

'Australia is a small market but it is geographically huge and needs similar levels of personnel and nationwide support and service as the US.

'Then we have specific emission and design regulations which Mercedes-Benz at the factory has to engineer and comply. We, Mercedes-Benz Australia, pays for that - not Mercedes in Germany. So that gets passed on to the customer.

'Our geographical isolation means we carry cars on shipping routes that aren't well travelled, so that costs extra. 'The other important factor is model range. We sell everything from a Smart Fortwo to a 140-tonne truck and everything - cars, vans, trucks - in between.

'The US has a much smaller model range. For example, they have no four-cylinder engine versions available in the C-Class and E-Class and have no A-Class or B-Class models.'

Porsche Australia spokesman Paul Ellis mirrors what McCarthy outlines. He says there's 'about $100,000' in taxes in the Carrera S.

'The luxury-car tax is a high-end tax that's only applied to cars,' he says. 'It's not on yachts, jewellery or electronics - just cars - and I think that's because the government sees the car industry as a soft touch.

'The Australian Government imposes more taxes on luxury cars than any other economically established and mature market in the world.'

Ellis says that's not all. He says that what we get in Australia is a far, far better product than the Americans. 'In the US you basically get a cardboard box and steering wheel for your $88,800,' he says. 'Our cars have a much, much higher level of standard equipment.'

McCarthy agrees saying the S-Class, for example, for Australia is the best-specced model in the world.

Ellis adds that buying power is a big contributor to the cheap US prices. 'The US sells 30 times the number of Porsches we do,' he says.

'So it can ask - and get - a better buying price from the factory. 'Then there's market positioning. The 911 rivals are relatively more affordable in the US. You have to price your car in and around your competitors or you don't get on buyers' shopping lists.'


The price differences also comes down to what people can afford. We did a check of average wages in Australia and compared them to the US.

Surprisingly, relative to the US wages, we are paid more. The average yearly earnings in Australia for 2010 was $56,950. In the US, it was $46,326.

More than 50 per cent of working Americans are paid less than $45,000 a year. 'It's what people can or cannot afford to pay,' says McCarthy. 'It's interesting to note that the margins that we operate on - that is the profit to the dealer - is the same as other markets. So even though we pay three times more, the dealers are getting about the same.'

Price differences

Honda Jazz 1.5
($A19,190) — $US15,100 (-21%)

Mini Cooper S
($A42,850) — $US22,300 (-48%)

Toyota Corolla Conquest
($A24,490) — $US16,520 (-33%)

Mazda3 Maxx Sport
($A26,320) — $US20,045 (-24%)

Toyota Prius
($A39,900) — $US21,650 (-46%)

Volkswagen Golf 103TDI
($A34,490) — $US23,885 (-31%)

Toyota Camry Sportivo
($A33,990) — $US23,590 (-31%)

Mazda6 Classic
($A31,750) — $US22,635 (-29%)

Subaru Liberty Premium wagon
($A40,990) — $US25,295 (-38%)

Honda Accord V6
($A49,990) — $US27,355 (-45%)

Mazda CX-9 Luxury
($A57,015) — $US32,445 (-43%)

Toyota Kluger KX-S
($A55,490) — $US34,750 (-37%)

Volvo XC60 T6
($A65,950) — $US38,400 (-42%)

BMW X5 35i
($A103,900) — $US46,300 (-55%)

Note: Some cars are built in the US. Specifications may not precisely equate.
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      04-10-2014, 03:00 AM   #24
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The e9x m3 is super easy to rev through its entire power band just seems like some folks don't like to do such a thing probably a fuel cost issue or hate the beautiful music especially if equipped w dct

From driving a perf edition f30 n55 + MPPK + MPE 6mt it is not easy to rev through its power band unless you drive it hard and I am surprised that BMW increased the upper power band of the N55

The M235i seems to have more special sauce like the 335is did

I am sure the 8 speed ZF only helps the equation
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      04-10-2014, 04:05 AM   #25
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we still get shafted
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      04-10-2014, 04:30 AM   #26
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Boring review is boring. All reviews for this car are beginning to sound so similar, and I am afraid they're just regurgitating each others thoughts. I still don't feel like I know this car too well having watched this many reviews. I know it does a pretty good job on the track because I saw Randy Pobst thrash it at Willow Springs ... but really, that's about it.
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      04-10-2014, 08:37 AM   #27
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Several reviewers said the 135i was the spiritual successor to the E36 M3. I wonder what would happen if an 135i ppk with a decent set of tires was put up against an M235i.
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      04-10-2014, 09:18 AM   #28
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Wow this thread is short course in economics :-)

As an Aussie with an M235i on order (production date 31/3/14) let me put something in perspective. It doesn't really matter what it costs.....VALUE is in the eye of the beholder.

As a small, isolated convict colony that is geographically dispersed that also has a domestic car industry (only until 2017) we have protected our domestic industry with tariffs and taxes for years. And one could say that we pay way too much for cars in 2014...... But....let me share with you the glass half full perspective.

In Dec 1999, I paid $110,000 AUD for my brand new e46 328 CI. In that same year in Australia the following applied:

Median yearly wage. $45,000
Median house price. $220,000
Pint of guiness. $5
Ticket to the football. $25
Steak at a restaurant. $22
Litre of petrol. $0.70c

In March 2014 I have ordered an M235i fully optioned, which is 65% more powerful than the e46, 30% quicker! ...has M sport suspension, has M performance brakes, M sport aesthetics etc..... And it cost me $93k AUD

In 2014 the following applies

Median yearly wage. $75k
Median house price. $600k
Pint of guiness. $12
Ticket to the football. $70
Steak at a restaurant. $45
Litre of petrol. $1.50

I think compared to what the rest of the world pays for a M235i we are getting screwed....but when you look at my numbers above, the price of luxury motoring in this country has come down whilst every other luxury continues to go up. Given the price of houses, I have decided to buy an M235i and sleep in it as well. It now is Ultimate Living Pleasure..... And value for money!!
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      04-10-2014, 10:51 AM   #29
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Gins is right about this. It's basic Macro Economics, but I know it's difficult to understand.

To help people understand this easily, there is a Big Mac's Index.

Norway - $9.63 (59 kr.)
Sweden - $7.29 (49 Kr.)
Switzerland - $6.81 (6.50 CHF)
Brazil - $5.68 (10.25 R$)
Finland - $5.61 (4,10 €) (26 February 2014)
Denmark - $5.37

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gins View Post
I was trying to simplify it for the average bimmerpost reader, but what people can afford is only one side of the coin. To put this to rest, here is a comprehensive explanation as to why cars cost so much in Australia.

"Our dollar is nearly level with the US but our cars cost much more...

AMERICANS pay about half of what we pay for new cars and we're not happy. It's not only the customer who's not happy - even the car distributors and dealers are spitting chips.

The enormous difference surfaced in the past few months when the Australian dollar reached parity with the US currency. Immediately we started asking why a Lexus LS460 costs an Australian a sizeable $191,200 - but an American pays $66,230.That's about a third of what we pay.

It's nothing to do with Lexus and the luxury brand isn't alone - all cars are cheaper in the US. We priced a Porsche Carrera S at $88,800 in the US - the same price as what we pay for a base-model diesel Land Cruiser GXL.But in Australia, the Porche costs us $282,800 - three times the US price.

As the words 'rip off' resonate in our ears, we applied the same comparison to Mercedes-Benz and still we're looking at paying three times the price for luxury cars.

Mercedes-Benz Australia spokesman David McCarthy says there are crucial differences between the two markets and that flows onto the retail prices.

'Basically, we pay more tax,' he says. 'There is GST, luxury-car tax and import tax on each car.

'That's the starting point. Australia is a tiny market - we have a one-million a year vehicle market, the US is about 13 million. You get a discount for buying in volume.

'Australia is a small market but it is geographically huge and needs similar levels of personnel and nationwide support and service as the US.

'Then we have specific emission and design regulations which Mercedes-Benz at the factory has to engineer and comply. We, Mercedes-Benz Australia, pays for that - not Mercedes in Germany. So that gets passed on to the customer.

'Our geographical isolation means we carry cars on shipping routes that aren't well travelled, so that costs extra. 'The other important factor is model range. We sell everything from a Smart Fortwo to a 140-tonne truck and everything - cars, vans, trucks - in between.

'The US has a much smaller model range. For example, they have no four-cylinder engine versions available in the C-Class and E-Class and have no A-Class or B-Class models.'

Porsche Australia spokesman Paul Ellis mirrors what McCarthy outlines. He says there's 'about $100,000' in taxes in the Carrera S.

'The luxury-car tax is a high-end tax that's only applied to cars,' he says. 'It's not on yachts, jewellery or electronics - just cars - and I think that's because the government sees the car industry as a soft touch.

'The Australian Government imposes more taxes on luxury cars than any other economically established and mature market in the world.'

Ellis says that's not all. He says that what we get in Australia is a far, far better product than the Americans. 'In the US you basically get a cardboard box and steering wheel for your $88,800,' he says. 'Our cars have a much, much higher level of standard equipment.'

McCarthy agrees saying the S-Class, for example, for Australia is the best-specced model in the world.

Ellis adds that buying power is a big contributor to the cheap US prices. 'The US sells 30 times the number of Porsches we do,' he says.

'So it can ask - and get - a better buying price from the factory. 'Then there's market positioning. The 911 rivals are relatively more affordable in the US. You have to price your car in and around your competitors or you don't get on buyers' shopping lists.'


The price differences also comes down to what people can afford. We did a check of average wages in Australia and compared them to the US.

Surprisingly, relative to the US wages, we are paid more. The average yearly earnings in Australia for 2010 was $56,950. In the US, it was $46,326.

More than 50 per cent of working Americans are paid less than $45,000 a year. 'It's what people can or cannot afford to pay,' says McCarthy. 'It's interesting to note that the margins that we operate on - that is the profit to the dealer - is the same as other markets. So even though we pay three times more, the dealers are getting about the same.'

Price differences

Honda Jazz 1.5
($A19,190) — $US15,100 (-21%)

Mini Cooper S
($A42,850) — $US22,300 (-48%)

Toyota Corolla Conquest
($A24,490) — $US16,520 (-33%)

Mazda3 Maxx Sport
($A26,320) — $US20,045 (-24%)

Toyota Prius
($A39,900) — $US21,650 (-46%)

Volkswagen Golf 103TDI
($A34,490) — $US23,885 (-31%)

Toyota Camry Sportivo
($A33,990) — $US23,590 (-31%)

Mazda6 Classic
($A31,750) — $US22,635 (-29%)

Subaru Liberty Premium wagon
($A40,990) — $US25,295 (-38%)

Honda Accord V6
($A49,990) — $US27,355 (-45%)

Mazda CX-9 Luxury
($A57,015) — $US32,445 (-43%)

Toyota Kluger KX-S
($A55,490) — $US34,750 (-37%)

Volvo XC60 T6
($A65,950) — $US38,400 (-42%)

BMW X5 35i
($A103,900) — $US46,300 (-55%)

Note: Some cars are built in the US. Specifications may not precisely equate.

Last edited by Manbnda; 04-10-2014 at 11:03 AM..
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      04-10-2014, 10:52 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old school View Post
Wow this thread is short course in economics :-)

As an Aussie with an M235i on order (production date 31/3/14) let me put something in perspective. It doesn't really matter what it costs.....VALUE is in the eye of the beholder.

As a small, isolated convict colony that is geographically dispersed that also has a domestic car industry (only until 2017) we have protected our domestic industry with tariffs and taxes for years. And one could say that we pay way too much for cars in 2014...... But....let me share with you the glass half full perspective.

In Dec 1999, I paid $110,000 AUD for my brand new e46 328 CI. In that same year in Australia the following applied:

Median yearly wage. $45,000
Median house price. $220,000
Pint of guiness. $5
Ticket to the football. $25
Steak at a restaurant. $22
Litre of petrol. $0.70c

In March 2014 I have ordered an M235i fully optioned, which is 65% more powerful than the e46, 30% quicker! ...has M sport suspension, has M performance brakes, M sport aesthetics etc..... And it cost me $93k AUD

In 2014 the following applies

Median yearly wage. $75k
Median house price. $600k
Pint of guiness. $12
Ticket to the football. $70
Steak at a restaurant. $45
Litre of petrol. $1.50

I think compared to what the rest of the world pays for a M235i we are getting screwed....but when you look at my numbers above, the price of luxury motoring in this country has come down whilst every other luxury continues to go up. Given the price of houses, I have decided to buy an M235i and sleep in it as well. It now is Ultimate Living Pleasure..... And value for money!!
Isn't the price disparity in your purchase price from 1999 to 2014 due to the AUD almost doubling in value against the USD?

We shared a tour in Phuket with an Australian couple. The lady said she was a cashier at a local hardware store and made $30 AUD/hr. Is this common now? Here in the US they would make $10 USD/hr
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      04-10-2014, 10:57 AM   #31
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BTW, the price in Australia is minute compared to Singapore. The M235i in Singapore will cost over $200k USD.
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      04-10-2014, 05:50 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gins View Post
Average wealth of an adult in the U.S. $44k USD.

Average wealth of an Australian adult... $225k USD.

The Aussies pay out the ass in tax and cost of living is 30% higher, but damn if they aren't well compensated... Aussie dollar is almost equivalent to the USD.
I don't know where you got those figures from. I live in Melbourne. The average annual income is around 50K AUD here. So yes, Cars in Australia are very expensive.
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      04-10-2014, 07:24 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daydaychu
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gins View Post
Average wealth of an adult in the U.S. $44k USD.

Average wealth of an Australian adult... $225k USD.

The Aussies pay out the ass in tax and cost of living is 30% higher, but damn if they aren't well compensated... Aussie dollar is almost equivalent to the USD.
I don't know where you got those figures from. I live in Melbourne. The average annual income is around 50K AUD here. So yes, Cars in Australia are very expensive.
Wealth means net worth. That super high number probably stems from over inflated housing prices.
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      04-11-2014, 04:39 AM   #34
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we still get shafted
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      04-11-2014, 04:31 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diver
Several reviewers said the 135i was the spiritual successor to the E36 M3. I wonder what would happen if an 135i ppk with a decent set of tires was put up against an M235i.
I have a model year 2010 135i with the M-sport package, SSK, PE and PPK. It's great fun. The N54 engine has a certain raw, wild feel to it compared to the N54(?) in the M235i, which feels more refined & tamed. The M235i interior is slightly larger and a bit nicer than the 135i. The 235i is far smoother in its handling and ride, but I didn't find it quite as engaging from a driver's point if view. Responsiveness of the engine: pretty much equal other than the aforementioned raw, wild feel & fun of the N54 with the PPK, PE and SSK.
Bottom-line: so far, I'm hanging on to my 135i... So far. Might need to test drive the 2 again....
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      04-12-2014, 02:09 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spellbmw
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diver
Several reviewers said the 135i was the spiritual successor to the E36 M3. I wonder what would happen if an 135i ppk with a decent set of tires was put up against an M235i.
I have a model year 2010 135i with the M-sport package, SSK, PE and PPK. It's great fun. The N54 engine has a certain raw, wild feel to it compared to the N54(?) in the M235i, which feels more refined & tamed. The M235i interior is slightly larger and a bit nicer than the 135i. The 235i is far smoother in its handling and ride, but I didn't find it quite as engaging from a driver's point if view. Responsiveness of the engine: pretty much equal other than the aforementioned raw, wild feel & fun of the N54 with the PPK, PE and SSK.
Bottom-line: so far, I'm hanging on to my 135i... So far. Might need to test drive the 2 again....
M235 has a N55
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      04-23-2014, 03:13 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buumer View Post
Car looks gorgeous in red.
Love it in Melbourne Red. I think I might forego a 225D with M Sport pack for a M235i. The reviews are so positive in every respect.
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      05-02-2014, 07:41 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antzcrashing View Post
Lmk when it is spiritual successor to 1M. Otherwise waiting M2 (though its obviously never coming)
it appears I spoke too soon, very glad to be wrong:
http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=976863
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