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      02-13-2014, 10:45 AM   #23
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Now I get this isn't an M car but it is still pretty bad ass. I would love to wait for an M2 but not sure I can with these sittin on lots soon.
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      02-13-2014, 04:52 PM   #24
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The steering review *cries*

I haven't driven a worse BMW than the F25 X3. Hopefully this is an improvement. Pretty please give us some damn steering response BMW!!
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      02-13-2014, 05:34 PM   #25
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I've only driven and owned 1 bmw. Can someone for the love of god explain steering feel / response?
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      02-13-2014, 07:02 PM   #26
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To me good steering feedback is when I can feel the tyres through the wheel. I want to feel the grip of the tyres as I corner, the behaviour of the tyres and to feel the imperfections of the road underneath me.

The F25 X3 has none of this and I found it unstable at highway speeds as the steering was too light.

http://www.prodrive.com/level4.html?id=232

Quote:
‘Steering feel’ is the communication of tyre forces and vehicle dynamic states to the driver, via the steering wheel.

It is quite distinct from the vehicle’s response to steering inputs but many people confuse the two. For example, the perceived accuracy of a vehicle’s steering – the tendency of the vehicle to follow the driver’s chosen path – is influenced more by the vehicle’s response, determined by many factors, than by the precision of the steering. From the vehicle manufacturer’s marketing perspective however, steering feel can be something completely different as it is often one of the main factors used by vehicle buyers to categorise the vehicle.
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      02-13-2014, 07:02 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bam226 View Post
I've only driven and owned 1 bmw. Can someone for the love of god explain steering feel / response?
Generally?

"Steering feel" typically refers to the amount of (and quality of) communication between the steering system/wheel and the car, its tires, and the road it rides on. The term can be representative of the amount of effort/input needed to turn the car at varying speeds. It can also be used to discuss a steering system's weight (i.e., is it pleasantly heavy/firm or is it unpleasantly light/numb?).

Observations that can fall under the wide "steering feel" umbrella:

- Weight/Effort (does the steering feel light and effortless (borderline artificial) or does it feel heavier, more natural, and progressive as you increase/decrease a given steering input?)

- Communication (can I feel what the car and its tires are doing through the steering wheel, do the sensations/vibrations I feel with steering wheel properly correspond with the particular road/track conditions?)

That was quickly written but hopefully that gives you a general idea of what someone means when they talk about steering feel.

For me, I look for the following attributes when evaluating steering feel: 1) Does the wheel accurately and thoroughly transmit to me (i.e., to my hands) what the tires are encountering on the road? 2) Is there a nice, consistent firm weight to the steering that lends itself to predictable, progressive, and easily controllable steering inputs?
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      02-13-2014, 07:27 PM   #28
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Yes it explains it perfectly. I think I may need to drive an older model now to see what all the hoopla is about. Thanks
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      02-13-2014, 07:43 PM   #29
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Other than a couple of the negative remarks he made regarding the steering and the excessive M badging, the article makes me feel better about my order. Those are quite stellar performance numbers, and he comments how driving position is excellent. I can't wait to test it out on the Autobahn in April!

For comparison, the 435i 6mt was just tested by C&D, and they only managed a 5.2 60 and 13.7 QM. I think this car is the performance bargain in the current BMW lineup. The M2 will blow everyone away.

PS- I like this shot. Looks quite aggressive.

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      02-13-2014, 09:11 PM   #30
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[QUOTE=golf4501;15437172]Let's play, "guess all the M badges game."

1 one the back - nice
2 on the sides - overkill?
4 on each rim - nice
2 door sills? - fine
1 shifter - even if auto?
1 dash - overkill
1 glove box? -?
1 steering wheel - a must
1 engine cover - a must and under the hood anyway
brake calipers - nice
dead pedal??? - ???
seems pretty good to me...
If u want to spend $10K more for a 2M then go for it, but I like most mere mortals find much better value in the M235i. Furthermore, given that I am a professional race car driver who has tested every BMW car out there, I can safely say that the M235i will outperform any M car... OK I'm kidding of course - just seeing if you are all awake. Seriously, stop trashing the M235i and respect its position in the line-up. M cars are for rich people who have money to burn. Seriously, who cares whether the oil gauge needs to be displayed as long as I t can be cued up - no one looks at it ever unless u drive like a maniac.
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      02-13-2014, 09:33 PM   #31
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[QUOTE=Greg007;15441737]
Quote:
Originally Posted by golf4501 View Post
Let's play, "guess all the M badges game."

1 one the back - nice
2 on the sides - overkill?
4 on each rim - nice
2 door sills? - fine
1 shifter - even if auto?
1 dash - overkill
1 glove box? -?
1 steering wheel - a must
1 engine cover - a must and under the hood anyway
brake calipers - nice
dead pedal??? - ???
seems pretty good to me...
If u want to spend $10K more for a 2M then go for it, but I like most mere mortals find much better value in the M235i. Furthermore, given that I am a professional race car driver who has tested every BMW car out there, I can safely say that the M235i will outperform any M car... OK I'm kidding of course - just seeing if you are all awake. Seriously, stop trashing the M235i and respect its position in the line-up. M cars are for rich people who have money to burn. Seriously, who cares whether the oil gauge needs to be displayed as long as I t can be cued up - no one looks at it ever unless u drive like a maniac.
I personally think the ones on the side might be overkill. Not sure I will remove them though. Like the one on back, and the rims. Even my '01 330ci with sport, had M badges on the rims and never heard anyone comment on that. Just patiently waiting for mine to show up now, so I can see for myself.
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      02-13-2014, 09:36 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ybbiz34 View Post
Saw this from Road & Track today:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-revi...?src=soc_fcbks

An excerpt:

"The badge says "M," yes, but the M235i is a replacement for the 135i, not the 1 Series M Coupe. Though it’s fast as all get-out (0–60 in 4.5 seconds in our testing), grips like the dickens (thanks to Michelin Pilot Super Sports), and stops like an M car (five feet shorter from 80 mph than a competition-package M5, for example), it’s not involving enough to wear an M badge. Much less 16 of them."

What surprised me the most was this:

"Speaking of silly, the M235i displays "M235i" on the LCD of its gauge cluster at all times. And it has horsepower and torque gauges in the center screen. But it has no way of telling you that the oil is so cold it has ice crystals in it. Or, on the other hand, that the engine oil is hot enough to fry a turkey. (Yeah, I’m going there again.) You have no way of knowing when launch control is going to work. Go to the racetrack, and half the time, the dash says "Launch Control Active," but the car performs a seven-second 0–60. Which we can only presume is because the engine is hot. But we’ll never know now, will we? I want to smack someone over this."

I was very surprised to learn that this car has no oil or coolant temperature displays. Is that right or did the reviewer(s) mess that up?

I apologize in advance if this has been posted already.
OK I read this R&T review - very informative. However, the reviewer starts by stating the M235i is not an M car when in fact no one ever said it was in the first place! He then goes on to trash the car, but in the end surprisingly concludes and I quote: "We all agree: It’s a fine car. A damn fine car." Am I missing something here or does the guy like the car - what a dummy IMHO. In my experience there will always be neh sayers who will trash any car - just enjoy the M235i knowing that it isn't perfect but it is the closest thing to perfection that value conscious BMW owners can buy. That designation used to go to the beloved 3-series coupe (but now that the new 4-series design truly sucks, its M235i all the way, even though I prefer the slightly larger size of the old 3-series coupe).
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      02-14-2014, 10:51 AM   #33
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IMHO, if BMW wants the positive from Mish badging, they should also be willing to take the negatives as well. So everyone should put on their big boy pants and realize that it's a pretty lame idea, just as lame as Audi and Caddy, where they think that people really can only understand one letter at a time. They certainly could have called it anywhere in the A-N range to denote these less than M cars (or even done a whacky lower case m "solution"), and chose to intentionally muddy the ranks for obvious reasons.

On the other hand, reviewers really need to get over the current BMW badging issues. They're being lazy and picking the low-hanging fruit. Once you get past his silly chest-thumping, it's a pretty good review, which is good.

But I have to agree with the OP - the lack of temp gauges is annoying and I would have to say just plain wrong. It's almost as dumb-headed as Mercedes killing the dipsticks (which are now starting to reappear, thankfully). And having to pony up $389 to stick something in my vent is an answer to a question that shouldn't have to be posed.
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      02-14-2014, 11:26 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy View Post
IMHO, if BMW wants the positive from Mish badging, they should also be willing to take the negatives as well. So everyone should put on their big boy pants and realize that it's a pretty lame idea, just as lame as Audi and Caddy, where they think that people really can only understand one letter at a time. They certainly could have called it anywhere in the A-N range to denote these less than M cars (or even done a whacky lower case m "solution"), and chose to intentionally muddy the ranks for obvious reasons.

On the other hand, reviewers really need to get over the current BMW badging issues. They're being lazy and picking the low-hanging fruit. Once you get past his silly chest-thumping, it's a pretty good review, which is good.

But I have to agree with the OP - the lack of temp gauges is annoying and I would have to say just plain wrong. It's almost as dumb-headed as Mercedes killing the dipsticks (which are now starting to reappear, thankfully). And having to pony up $389 to stick something in my vent is an answer to a question that shouldn't have to be posed.





How many frickin versions of Mustangs and Camaro's are there? Maybe 10 each and no one seems to bitch about GT, GT350, GT500, Boss 302 and on and on and on for both cars and where is the mass confusion? BMW adds an additional level and people are frickin dumbfounded.
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      02-14-2014, 01:16 PM   #35
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Are you really thinking it's a good idea to use GM and Ford for benchmarking?

It's really a level that's not a level, which is where I find the annoyance. At least Audi had the cojones to add "-line" to show how silly they were being. In the grand scheme of things, you're right - it's nothing. But BMW did this to themselves; I was more than happy to understand that a 3 series could have 2, 4, or 5 doors. The only thing left is to start using decimals or fractions in new model designations, and I only am mostly kidding about that, with the way that things are going.
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      02-14-2014, 03:00 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aust350z View Post
The steering review *cries*

I haven't driven a worse BMW than the F25 X3. Hopefully this is an improvement. Pretty please give us some damn steering response BMW!!
Don't bet on it.

The steering in the M135 which will be the same as the M235, is very direct and fast (2.0 turns lock to lock from memory from my test drive) but is devoid of all feel and connection with the road..........I hated it, and is one of the reasons I won't be replacing my 135i with a M235.
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      02-14-2014, 04:16 PM   #37
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I thought its a good honest review..have to agree with him on alot of stuff
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      02-14-2014, 05:07 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ska325xi View Post
I thought its a good honest review..have to agree with him on alot of stuff
lol, since you agree with him it is a good honest review? the other reviews were not honest?
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      02-14-2014, 05:10 PM   #39
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First review I see where they make an actual comparison with the E82 and it says exactly what I was hoping not to read:

"Sad to say, we all like the old car a smidge better. Let’s chat again once we get an M235i with a stick shift and a limited-slip. I’m betting I’m going to like it a lot more. Mike probably will, too. But for the moment, a damn fine, pretty car doesn’t beat an ugly little one that was transcendent."

Enough said... The same was said in a comparison between a E90 328i and a F30, good car, just not as good as the one it replaces.

I really want to read that the new one is better than the old one in order to have a better alternative when it will be time to replace it. I don't want to fork $5000 more for the new one (at comparable equipment) to get something that is not as exciting (and forget the stuff about the better interior, I am totally fine with the one of my car...
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      02-14-2014, 05:11 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aust350z View Post
The steering review *cries*

I haven't driven a worse BMW than the F25 X3. Hopefully this is an improvement. Pretty please give us some damn steering response BMW!!
I could only advise you to test drive back to back an "old" one and a new one on your favorite winding road and you will immediately understand
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      02-14-2014, 06:02 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 135IBMW
Quote:
Originally Posted by ska325xi View Post
I thought its a good honest review..have to agree with him on alot of stuff
lol, since you agree with him it is a good honest review? the other reviews were not honest?
Are we all biase and when someone disfavor any bmw we all get offended?

I see nothing wrong with this review. All the others are honest opinions also but they dont really tell us the bad stuff as this is what alot of reviewers are afraid to do
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      02-14-2014, 07:07 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ska325xi View Post
Are we all biase and when someone disfavor any bmw we all get offended?

I see nothing wrong with this review. All the others are honest opinions also but they dont really tell us the bad stuff as this is what alot of reviewers are afraid to do
I did not say there was anything wrong with the review, I just found it funny how you seem to know what is good or bad about the car and just because the review had something bad to say somehow that made this review "honest"

So how do you know the other reviewers are afraid? how do you know they are not honest? Just because a review does not agree with your opinion does not mean it is not honest. At least these people have driven the car ... so how do you know what is good or bad without even driving the car yet?

Don't take it personal, just thought what you posted was funny ....
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      02-14-2014, 07:42 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 135IBMW
Quote:
Originally Posted by ska325xi View Post
Are we all biase and when someone disfavor any bmw we all get offended?

I see nothing wrong with this review. All the others are honest opinions also but they dont really tell us the bad stuff as this is what alot of reviewers are afraid to do
I did not say there was anything wrong with the review, I just found it funny how you seem to know what is good or bad about the car and just because the review had something bad to say somehow that made this review "honest"

So how do you know the other reviewers are afraid? how do you know they are not honest? Just because a review does not agree with your opinion does not mean it is not honest. At least these people have driven the car ... so how do you know what is good or bad without even driving the car yet?

Don't take it personal, just thought what you posted was funny ....
Oh its all good, nothing personal

We dont have to drive the car to agree not having oil temp, alot of M badge, etc is dumb. And you totally miss my point as I was trying to say that this review point out some things others did not...maybe you misunderstood what i was trying to say or i miss typed
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      03-02-2014, 07:26 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvandenhaute View Post
First review I see where they make an actual comparison with the E82 and it says exactly what I was hoping not to read:

"Sad to say, we all like the old car a smidge better. Let’s chat again once we get an M235i with a stick shift and a limited-slip. I’m betting I’m going to like it a lot more. Mike probably will, too. But for the moment, a damn fine, pretty car doesn’t beat an ugly little one that was transcendent."

Enough said... The same was said in a comparison between a E90 328i and a F30, good car, just not as good as the one it replaces.

I really want to read that the new one is better than the old one in order to have a better alternative when it will be time to replace it. I don't want to fork $5000 more for the new one (at comparable equipment) to get something that is not as exciting (and forget the stuff about the better interior, I am totally fine with the one of my car...
From everything I'm reading I'm tempted to add a ppk to my 135i instead of this. However on pricing from what I've seen the M235i is cheaper when similarly optioned than the 135i leave alone the 135is. It's bigger, heavier, looks way better and cheaper.

Let's see what the LSD does. That is the only thing going for this car IMHO.
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