[dmboone25]

First of all, and I know this is illogical...but I just can't drive a Mustang...or Camaro...or Corvette...etc...

The main reasons? I don't have enough chest hair. Or gold chains. Or the right accent.

They are good cars, for the people who enjoy that type of experience. I just have never been tempted. They are fast, sound great (especially some of the Mustangs), and be had for much lower prices. I just don't want one. No harm in that.

[missxmelon]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

First of all, and I know this is illogical...but I just can't drive a Mustang...or Camaro...or Corvette...etc...

The main reasons? I don't have enough chest hair. Or gold chains. Or the right accent.

They are good cars, for the people who enjoy that type of experience. I just have never been tempted. They are fast, sound great (especially some of the Mustangs), and be had for much lower prices. I just don't want one. No harm in that.

Not illogical - certain cars just don't appeal to / aren't for everyone, and it comes down to the style / vibe.

[3.0L]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

First of all, and I know this is illogical...but I just can't drive a Mustang...or Camaro...or Corvette...etc...

The main reasons? I don't have enough chest hair. Or gold chains. Or the right accent.

Same here. I just don't have that "John Milner" look (American Graffiti).

[nachob]

Father forgive me but I was tempted by the Boss 302! I do have a hairy chest maybe that's why?

[Itrecinque]

Yeah, I miss my 135i every day, especially as I have to drive my wife's golf till I get my new car. The first time I drove the 1er, I was blown away by acceleration and sound. The first time I test drove the M4, I was mmm, pretty nice. Ordered one, 'cos I thought I needed a change, but now, shite...... Hope I get over it and grow to love the M4 like I did the 1er.

[BLK235iNJ]

I think its a great car. It's very well balanced, quick, comfortable, nicely put together and modify-able. And for what its worth I've owned a 600whp svt, c6 z06, 2 audi(s) A4/8 and driven tons of cars and I have to say this is a very fun car to drive. There are other guys here that own c7s and the 2 series and they still praise the 2 series. That being said, IMO the only true review is yours. I use the mass published reviews as guidelines and I certainly do not rely on what other people say. My recommendation go drive it in sport (or sport +). Another good way to test it is at the BMW events where you can autocros the 228 (even that car is a little monster).

I can see that some folks here have a little sore spot for BMW in regards to how they feel BMW is taking their cars (soft). If you're looking for a complete balanced package the 2 is a great car. If you're looking to brag about HP or the "TRUE M" then you may want to look at something else.

My car at this point looks like "my car" wrapped, dropped, tuned, and wheels. I individualized it and now I could care less whether its slower than a 1 series, m car, porsche. To me its all pointless. My satisfaction is when I get 10 thumbs up on my way to the gym or when people pull me aside to discuss the car.

This post began with a 135 pulling on a 2 series (slightly). I'd park my car next to a 1 series any day and I'd have zero buyers remorse. When a buyer has remorse imo its typically because they were probably questioning their purchase from the start. This incident just justified that feeling If you don't love the car then simply just don't buy it. I would never buy a car to "hold me over". There are so many cars out there for 50k that would crush this 2 series (i'm including used cars).

I believe you cant go wrong with this car. Good luck

Originally Posted by Mark's M

Well I've just finished pouring over all of the '15 Mustang reviews and to me...and I repeat, these are my thoughts....they were underwhelming. Man I'm getting pissed. Everything's coming up underwhelming these days lol.

dm....might take you up on the weekend M235 drive thing if my CA is up to it. And I'll report back of course. But I think, after today's Mustang news (and I was seriously considering it), it'll come down to the M2 unless I lose my mind and spend a heck of a lot more on a C63 which I think will be fairly stunning.

As for tailoring an M2 as your buddy Chack would prefer to be able to do but wouldn't, my thoughts are similar. Only people I've trusted with my BMW's have been at my dealership (yup, they're that good) using Dinan performance mods. But if all this stuff about the N55's reliability being stretched as it approaches the 360hp range is true, then Dinan wouldn't want to touch it and jeopardize their conservative approach to performance with warranty.

I'll have to wait and see but honestly I just don't f'n know what I want anymore lol.

[3.0L]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

I guess my main takeaway is disappointment, specifically in the M235's version of the N55. My general "sideways thumb" opinion of the N55 has been well documented , but the experience yesterday really pulled that back to the front of my mind. Unless BMW does something very interesting with this engine, I really wonder about the M2...

And I am not saying the M235 is slow...or a bad car...or anything like that - it is simply not a step forward from a feel perspective. I mean, the M235 is supposed to be analogous to a 135is, at least to me - and it is remarkably more soft and slow (at least yesterday in North Dallas) than a bone stock N54 135. Feels more like a sideways step, performance-wise, after this experience.

I still think there are areas in which the M235 is better - and my new buddy agreed on a lot of these. Better looking. Better seats. Better interior. More comfortable (aka squishy). Better gas mileage (although, I still contend that Eco mode is dangerous). Better sounding, although some of that is fake.

The M235 is still a very good car. But I didn't realize what I was missing from my old N54 days until yesterday. Just my opinion...

What is stopping you from going back to N54 power? You seem quite unhappy with your M235i, so why be a martyr? Go back to your previous ride.

[Researcher]

What a ridiculous post.

Been there playing with a 135is. NOT better, faster, or anything more than the 235. Technically a ridiculous post.

[jeremicium]

Originally Posted by Researcher

What a ridiculous post.

Been there playing with a 135is. NOT better, faster, or anything more than the 235. Technically a ridiculous post.

Brilliant post researcher. Flawless supporting argument. End of argument guys! "Technically" ridiculous.

[///MCFC]

Originally Posted by BLK235iNJ

I think its a great car. It's very well balanced, quick, comfortable, nicely put together and modify-able. And for what its worth I've owned a 600whp svt, c6 z06, 2 audi(s) A4/8 and driven tons of cars and I have to say this is a very fun car to drive. There are other guys here that own c7s and the 2 series and they still praise the 2 series. That being said, IMO the only true review is yours. I use the mass published reviews as guidelines and I certainly do not rely on what other people say. My recommendation go drive it in sport (or sport +). Another good way to test it is at the BMW events where you can autocros the 228 (even that car is a little monster).

I can see that some folks here have a little sore spot for BMW in regards to how they feel BMW is taking their cars (soft). If you're looking for a complete balanced package the 2 is a great car. If you're looking to brag about HP or the "TRUE M" then you may want to look at something else.

My car at this point looks like "my car" wrapped, dropped, tuned, and wheels. I individualized it and now I could care less whether its slower than a 1 series, m car, porsche. To me its all pointless. My satisfaction is when I get 10 thumbs up on my way to the gym or when people pull me aside to discuss the car.

This post began with a 135 pulling on a 2 series (slightly). I'd park my car next to a 1 series any day and I'd have zero buyers remorse. When a buyer has remorse imo its typically because they were probably questioning their purchase from the start. This incident just justified that feeling If you don't love the car then simply just don't buy it. I would never buy a car to "hold me over". There are so many cars out there for 50k that would crush this 2 series (i'm including used cars).

I believe you cant go wrong with this car. Good luck

well said. i too have owned cars that were FAR more "raw" than a 135i (not sure how anyone could consider the 135i a benchmark for that, tbh?). my 235 is nearly/just as fun to drive as those, while being far more balanced as a DD.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by ///MCFC

well said. i too have owned cars that were FAR more "raw" than a 135i (not sure how anyone could consider the 135i a benchmark for that, tbh?). my 235 is nearly/just as fun to drive as those, while being far more balanced as a DD.

The discussion was because:
1. the 235i was the replacement for 135i

2. the OP drove his buddy's 135i and felt the rawness.

3. when you say "more balanced", it confirms what the OP says, that it was more balanced by tilting it toward more comfort and less rawness.

The only difference is you prefer the softening, the OP and myself, prefer more sound and rawness.

While you say that the 235i is nearly as much fun to drive yet more "balanced" ie comfortable, the OP clearly stated that every generation before seemed to improve on the other in performance. There were some performance gains but coupled with softening that took something away. The 235i is still a great car and that is why we are all looking at it but it's a fair statement that some of the excitement has been chiseled away for more "balance." I feel that the 328i and 335i should be balanced because they are sports sedans meant to carry 4 people. The M235i, is a sports coupe with M badges and it should lean a bit more toward sportiness and excitement than it does at this moment.

It's also a fair argument that for the price, it should have an LSD or at least a factory installed option and it should have a temperature gauge and you should be able to pick the Euro Alcantara/Cloth interior. All those are fair arguments and not sure why everyone is so threatened by them. If the car makes you happy the way BMW sells it to you that is awesome, a few people feel that it is a very good platform that with a few tweaks could be an outstanding car for the ages.

[Guynamedsean]

The biggest problem, for me, with the 235 is that I want the LSD. I want performance suspension or KW. Instead of doing that, I would rather put my deposit down on an m2.

[hyperzulu]

Originally Posted by nachob

While you say that the 235i is nearly as much fun to drive yet more "balanced" ie comfortable, the OP clearly stated that every generation before seemed to improve on the other in performance.

That's just one person's opinion. There are plenty of people who feel like the E46 and E92 M3s fell short to the E36 M3, especially the severely obese E92. They prefer the size and feel of the E36 light years beyond that of its successors. The M235i by EVERY review seems to put the new car nearly on par with that of the outgoing 1M in various tests. The OP's experience proves very little otherwise. It is one person's experience which contradicts many others. It's unfortunate he couldn't test drive a car he ordered. I wouldn't marry a girl without taking her to bed first.

[Fugly M3]

Originally Posted by Lucky13

Not to dispute your butt dyna or the fact you lost to the 135 but doing a Google search says the "best" time recorded was a 4.7 in both Car and Driver and Motor Trend for the 135. The same magazines got a 4.3 and a 4.4 with the M235. Every other article said 4.8 -5.1 for the 135.

I believe one motor trend test got the 135i to 60 in 4.6. But that's neither her nor there. If both cars are manual...there is no difference. The 235i auto with launch control is what can get to the low 4s as I understand it..the stick can't. The 1 was definitely a raw car compared to the modern ones, and that is certainly something you "feel."

Originally Posted by 3.0L

I think in most cases, satisfaction with a new car (or lack thereof) weighs significantly on the car you traded in.

I came from a 10-year ownership of a 2004 Mazda RX-8, so my new M235i seems better to me in every aspect. Had I come from a 600+ HP 'vette, I might be disappointed in the performance department.

In any case, just about every car has to compromise something to gain something somewhere else. For starters, the deuce series is larger...

I'm at a point in life (finally) that if I wasn't truly happy with a new car, I'd find something else.

There is absolute truth to this statement. I judge every german car I've had since my first BMW (e46) by that car in terms of fit and finish and refinement. Hence, I find myself saying they don't make them like they used to...fact is that the cars since have certainly been better in a vast majority of ways...they just don't feel as solid though.

[///MCFC]

Originally Posted by nachob

The discussion was because:
1. the 235i was the replacement for 135i

2. the OP drove his buddy's 135i and felt the rawness.

3. when you say "more balanced", it confirms what the OP says, that it was more balanced by tilting it toward more comfort and less rawness.

The only difference is you prefer the softening, the OP and myself, prefer more sound and rawness.

While you say that the 235i is nearly as much fun to drive yet more "balanced" ie comfortable, the OP clearly stated that every generation before seemed to improve on the other in performance. There were some performance gains but coupled with softening that took something away. The 235i is still a great car and that is why we are all looking at it but it's a fair statement that some of the excitement has been chiseled away for more "balance." I feel that the 328i and 335i should be balanced because they are sports sedans meant to carry 4 people. The M235i, is a sports coupe with M badges and it should lean a bit more toward sportiness and excitement than it does at this moment.

It's also a fair argument that for the price, it should have an LSD or at least a factory installed option and it should have a temperature gauge and you should be able to pick the Euro Alcantara/Cloth interior. All those are fair arguments and not sure why everyone is so threatened by them. If the car makes you happy the way BMW sells it to you that is awesome, a few people feel that it is a very good platform that with a few tweaks could be an outstanding car for the ages.

sorry, i have loads of time in HPDE's and autocross, but i guess i'm just not as "core" as you and the OP. 135i does nothing for me. different strokes

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by 3.0L

What is stopping you from going back to N54 power? You seem quite unhappy with your M235i, so why be a martyr? Go back to your previous ride.

I'm not unhappy with it - it's just not as engaging as the N54 135. Again, if the boards are only for continuous praise and adulation, then I really have no interest in being here.

Also, if you read my posts throughout this thread carefully, you will see that I am glad for the styling update, better interior, and certain areas of the performance that is offered by the M235. There are just places that, in my opinion, fall short of the experience I had with the N54 135. Not the same thing as being unhappy my man.

Originally Posted by Researcher

What a ridiculous post.

Been there playing with a 135is. NOT better, faster, or anything more than the 235. Technically a ridiculous post.

Thanks for clearing that up - I appreciate it.

One quick thing before I go - did your 135is have an N54? Because, given the discussion at hand, such information would be crucial to whatever point you are trying to make.

Did you even read the title of the thread? Or was it ambiguous in some way?

[SmallTownBoy]

Originally Posted by E46M54325Ci

I judge every german car I've had since my first BMW (e46) by that car in terms of fit and finish and refinement. Hence, I find myself saying they don't make them like they used to...fact is that the cars since have certainly been better in a vast majority of ways...they just don't feel as solid though.

7 Reasons Why You Need To Own A BMW E46 M3:

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by nachob

Father forgive me but I was tempted by the Boss 302! I do have a hairy chest maybe that's why?

You, my friend, are a better man than me!

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by ///MCFC

well said. i too have owned cars that were FAR more "raw" than a 135i (not sure how anyone could consider the 135i a benchmark for that, tbh?). my 235 is nearly/just as fun to drive as those, while being far more balanced as a DD.

Never said it was a benchmark of anything - this is a simple comparison between an N54 135 (which I have owned) and the M235 (which I currently own).

Every person on here has different uses and purposes for the cars that they have - my M235 is very good as a daily driver, and yes it does put a smile on my face. Just not as engaging as the N54 135. In my opinion. Nowhere in there is some sort of statement that the N54 135 is the greatest car ever (it isn't) or that the M235 sucks (it doesn't).

It's just not as good in certain areas as I had hoped it would be.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by ///MCFC

sorry, i have loads of time in HPDE's and autocross, but i guess i'm just not as "core" as you and the OP. 135i does nothing for me. different strokes

No one said anything about "core" - it's just a comparison. In my opinion, if the 135 does nothing for you (you said it above), then you must prefer certain areas being more squishy. No worries my man - everyone likes different stuff.

[Guynamedsean]

A Ferrari 458 Italia has a surprisingly "squishy" suspension and doesn't have a manual.
One could argue that a 2010 135 with a manual is more "engaging".
You could argue that a tractor is more engaging.
Yes, you have to go back to 2010 to get a 135 w n54. Do you want a used one with 50k miles or are you going to build a time machine?

[///MCFC]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

No one said anything about "core" - it's just a comparison. In my opinion, if the 135 does nothing for you (you said it above), then you must prefer certain areas being more squishy. No worries my man - everyone likes different stuff.

if I'm honest, back when the e46 m3 rolled out, I didn't like it very much b/c i thought it was too soft!! a friend let me autox his a couple of times and I couldn't wait to get back to my s2k. i must be getting old.