[Ron Jeffries]

Mine has an oil temp in the cycling indicators in center console. I don't recall if I coded it on or if it's down in the menus, but the info is in this forum somewhere.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by 1FUNCAR

My wife and I are buying a 2018 M240 Coupe (in the build process now) as an early retirement gift to each other. We're stepping-up from a 2002 Miata that we've owned for 15 years and loved dearly. It handled like a go-kart on steroids and was loads of fun. I've always wanted an @ss-kicking sports car so we started looking at the Challenger and Camaro, but V8's with automatic transmission (my wife was growing tired of the stick). The Challenger was a blast and the throaty exhaust growl was a pure delight but Chrysler products tend to come up low in reliability. Having owned three, one had an electrical fire at 16k miles, another had windows fogging on the inside which no one could figure out, etc., we lost our zeal for the Challenger. The Camaro was drop-dead gorgeous but, sigh, another American car with so-so reliability. We considered another Miata but wanted something faster and a wee bit bigger. We considered a BRZ that was very nice looking but not much faster than the Miata and only a pinch larger. Everything seemed to have at least one fatal flaw until... I was reading the Consumer Reports annual car issue and stumbled on to the 2 Series. High quality. Fast. Great brand reputation. And surprisingly price competitive to the Camaro/Challenger when factoring in my supplier discount. And the rest, I hope, is going to be many happy years and miles in the M240. Sorry for being so long-winded.

My 2016 M235 has been trouble free for over two years and 22K miles and CR does list the 2 Series as the most reliable BMW of the bunch. HOWEVER, you'll be sorely mistaken if you think this car will be reliable past it's warranty period. BMWs can turn into maintenance hogs once they're about 5 years old and you'll probably be spending 2 to 3 times the amount of money to maintain the 240 once it's out of warranty compared to something ultra simple and reliable like you Miata.

These are stellar cars and I absolutely love my M235 and I'm very happy with it's quality and robustness, but I also know that it will be expensive to maintain in the long term. Also, the $6K cylinder head, $15K engine short block, and $5K 6MT do worry me a bit if something catastrophic were to happen outside of warranty. The big powertain parts on these cars are CRAZY expensive. LOL

[K8_M235i]

In response to the original question of the OP:

I had a 2017 wrx at the time when I drove my friends 1m (450 whp, cae shifter, akrapovic, ohlins, re71rs, other stuff like that) and it ruined my life.

I instantly knew I needed a car that felt like that. It wasn't just how fast it was, how well it handled, or how it sounded, but more of how it felt inside. The seating position, steering wheel position, and just the overall size of the car was what I loved.

This brought me to my car 2016 m235i 6mt LSD, no tech (nav, backup cam, sunroof). It was like my own mini affordable, and warrantied 1m.

Maybe someday it will be as crazy as the 1m, but for now I love it in its mostly stock form. (And a bonus is that power is almost identical to a stock 1m)

[1FUNCAR]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

My 2016 M235 has been trouble free for over two years and 22K miles and CR does list the 2 Series as the most reliable BMW of the bunch. HOWEVER, you'll be sorely mistaken if you think this car will be reliable past it's warranty period. BMWs can turn into maintenance hogs once they're about 5 years old and you'll probably be spending 2 to 3 times the amount of money to maintain the 240 once it's out of warranty compared to something ultra simple and reliable like you Miata.

These are stellar cars and I absolutely love my M235 and I'm very happy with it's quality and robustness, but I also know that it will be expensive to maintain in the long term. Also, the $6K cylinder head, $15K engine short block, and $5K 6MT do worry me a bit if something catastrophic were to happen outside of warranty. The big powertain parts on these cars are CRAZY expensive. LOL

You have any statistics on the failure rates for the big and expensive parts? Everything I've read so far is that when given proper maintenance, these are very good vehicles.

[morphomeman]

No person or vehicle can stop the aging process, no matter how well maintained.
I finally gave up on my beloved red 325 after over a dozen years, because the cost of repairs was getting crazy, even at my local shop, and I became concerned about breakdowns.
Luckily, BMW had come out with a car, the 2-series, that matched the dimensions of the E46 3-series almost exactly. I bought one three years ago, sold my red beauty for a song, and have not looked back.

[wizee]

Originally Posted by 1FUNCAR

You have any statistics on the failure rates for the big and expensive parts? Everything I've read so far is that when given proper maintenance, these are very good vehicles.

The 2 series are well designed, reliable, and their relative simplicity minimizes potential problem areas. However, BMWs are never cheap to maintain as they get older, particularly when compared to something like a Toyota Corolla. From what I've seen online and the experience of many friends and family members, major failures of components like the engine and transmission are very rare on the 2 series and its predecessors (older 3 series). However, smaller problems and the risk of breakdowns increases gradually as the vehicle ages, particularly after 8 years of age.

Based off the experience of friends and family, spending around $2000/year on average to maintain/repair an 10+ year old I6 engined BMW is typical, while a 10 year old Toyota Corolla might only cost $500/year to maintain. After 8+ years, expect maybe double the issues and double the issues and double the parts/labour cost per issue for a BMW compared to a Toyota econobox. With that said, based off my family experience with American cars, when they age, they break down just as much or more than BMWs. As an anecdotal example, my dad's 2005 Chevy Tahoe started to cost us the equivalent of around $2500 USD per year for three years in a row before we got rid of it.

Now, the V8 engines on higher models of the BMW 5 series and up have historically had higher rates of problems (you can read about them online), but the I4/I6 based powertrains have generally been solid in terms of not having any big issues. As an example of typical issues over a 10 year period for a BMW, excluding wear items, these are all the issues my best friend's N54 powered E92 has had over the past decade since it was purchased new:

• High pressure fuel pump (replaced under warranty/recall)
• Cracked coils and fouled spark plugs (replaced twice over the vehicle's life, once as part of maintenance and once when the engine started misbehaving)
• Cracked plastic coolant piping (cooling system leaks after 10 years seem to be a standard BMW issue)
• Leaking engine oil filter housing gasket
• Broken seat belt pushing hand thing (not sure of the proper name, 2 series don't have these)

I don't consider this to be a bad record for a 10 year old car. However, it should be noted that four of these five issues occured in the past 3 years, suggesting that the car gets less reliable as it ages, as expected. BMW may also have improved the designs of some of these components in the B58 compared to the N54, so a 2 series may well be more reliable than this.

Long story short, the 2 series should be a solid car that gives years of reliable service, but it won't be as cheap to maintain as a Japanese econobox. Based off the experience of friends and family, I don't think 2/3/4 series should be any less reliable than most American cars, and they are probably a bit more reliable I'd say. Also, if you love the car, you don't feel as bad spending $2k/year maintaining it once it's 10 years old.

[wizee]

I've been fond of BMWs since childhood, and always admired the ones I saw on the road and with family members. I've also always liked inline 6 motors. I contemplated getting various used BMWs over the past few years, such as the E60 535i, E90 335i, E87 135i, but had a hard time justifying a third car for myself, given that I already had a reliable (but boring) daily driver and a fun weekend car (Porsche Boxster) in my garage. Family members also kept discouraging me from buying nearly 10 year old German cars because of maintenance costs, even though I was going in fully aware that they wouldn't be cheap to run. I kept visiting dealerships "window shopping" without really being able to justify a purchase.

I recently came to a realization that my daily driver doesn't need to be a "soccer mom" car, so I decided to trade it for something more fun. My needs were:

• Usable back seats for occasional extra passengers
• Ability to drive through 10+ cm of unplowed snow (required in Waterloo winters)
• Something I wouldn't feel bad driving through salty slush (no future classics that need preservation)
• Ability to carry mid-size items that don't fit in my Boxster trunks
• Maneuverable in tight parking spaces

I also wanted something with good straight line performance to complement by Boxster. There were a number of cars I considered, mainly German sports coupes and American muscle cars.

American Muscle Cars (Mustang, Camaro, Challenger)
New V8 powered American muscle cars are as quick or faster than the M240i in a straight line, while selling for a lower price. However, the cars are huge and gas guzzlers. Also, the Mustang and Camaro rear seats are so tiny that they're nearly useless - only the Challenger has decent rear seats. I never saw myself as a muscle car guy.

Used Porsche 996 C4S
I like Porsches and wouldn't mind having a 911 to complement my Boxster. These cars are done depreciating and seem to have started going up in price. It would be fairly cheap to own, given that there would be no depreciation and appreciation may even pay for some of the maintenance. A Porsche 911 is cooler than a M240i. The four wheel drive should also be good in snow. However, I classify the 996 C4S as a future classic that should be preserved for the future - ie. not a car I'd feel happy taking through salty winter roads. Being a 15 year old car, straight line performance would be less than the new M240i. Also, the rear seats are tiny, the front trunk is small, making it not a very practical choice for a "practical" car.

Audi S5
Slower, more expensive, and worse handling than M240i. I like I6 motors better than V6 motors. I've always liked BMW better than Audi.

Mercedes-Benz C43 AMG
I seriously considered both the coupe and sedan versions. Its larger size makes it slightly more practical than the M240i, and it's a bit more luxurious. However, it costs more, weighs more, is slightly slower than the M240i, and I don't like the Mercedes infotainment system. Also, I like I6 better than V6 again.

The M240i gave me optimal balance of fun and practicality. I debated between manual + RWD or xDrive + auto. I decided on xDrive in the end for peace of mind in unplowed deep snow that we do get several times per year. xDrive gives better traction and more ground clearance. Of course, I will be installing winter tires too. It's not a matter of RWD with snow tires vs AWD with all seasons as some here like to put it to justify RWD. The xDrive accelerates slightly quicker from zero too.

[Golfman]

I purchased the M240ix as a retirement gift to myself. It's the first German car I've owned, and all of the reviews had talked about how it recaptured the ultimate driving machine feel.

I didn't need (or want) four doors and the trunk is large enough for my golf clubs. I love the size of this car, as it feels so responsive.

Eight weeks after purchase, I'm amazed at how I look for excuses to drive it. I don't push it often, but it's fun to quickly enter a highway or pass a car.

I drove the 230ix first and it had plenty of power, but I wanted to experience the engine in the M240ix. I would have been happy either way.

My only concerns are about the out-of-warranty costs, but that's easily rectified by buying the latest version.

It's so satisfying to look back on my purchase and think I bought exactly what I wanted, and my satisfaction has grown over time.

My mods so far are the carbon fiber/alcantara M kit for the interior, and the M performance rear diffuser painted just the way I wanted it.

I'm always searching for new ideas, so please pass on any additions that were particularly satisfying to you.

[Snade]

I was happily driving a 2015 335i - great car. Our other road car is a 2017 Audi A4.

I got this thought stuck in my head that I needed a car with manual transmission.

I searched local BMW dealers for all used and new cars with manual transmission.

A slightly used 2015 M235i popped up and a new M2.

I test drove the M2 - great car but did not like the auto rev matching and stiff suspension and a lot of money.

I tested the M235i and the next day made a deal to trade-in my 335i.

The M235i is smaller, quicker, feels lighter and has a more elegant look than the 3 series car.

I've owned it for several months now and love this car. The feel of the MT is superb.

Cheers,

Snade

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by 1FUNCAR

You have any statistics on the failure rates for the big and expensive parts? Everything I've read so far is that when given proper maintenance, these are very good vehicles.

The B58 in the M240 is still a relatively new motor. My concerns with the B58 are this:

1) The timing chain is on the back of the motor. Historically, BMWs that used this design have had timing chain and/or timing chain tensioner issues, largely because of the additional heat in the area. If there's a timing chain issue, the motor has to come out.

2) The VANOs system on these cars has historically had some issues. The repairs are generally easy; however, on the B58, the VANOs system is on the back of the motor thus if it fails, the motor is likely coming out now.

3) The B58 has a liquid to air intercooler that's built into the intake manifold. This is a superior design compared to the air to air setup that the N54 and N55 motors use however it's far more complex and uses liquid for cooling. BMWs history with cooling systems is quite terrible. A plastic intake manifold full of coolant spooks me given BMW history. A crack could potentially drain coolant directly into the motor and causes hydrolock and wreck the block and/or head. Plus there are numerous accounts of B58s mysteriously looking coolant. The volume people have to add is alarming to me as it suggests it may be getting consumed. Yikes!

4) The turbo on the B58 has it's own cooling system and separate pump. See my cooling concerns above.


All the noted potential issues could causes quite expensive repairs. The B58 is a stellar motor from a performance perspective but its long-term reliability waits to be seen.

[emtrey]

Had a 2009 135i which I loved. When that lease came due, my wife reminded me that I would have to get a 4 door car ( which I never have had in my long life that I drove regularly) since her 4 door car was going to have the car seats in the back for our granddaughters. We needed another 4 door family car.

Bought a 2013 335i w/ ppk. Nice car, but the softest of the 10 BMW products I have owned and not one of my favorites though the drivetrain is wonderful.

Went to visit a friend in California who had just leased an M235 w/ Dinan to the max. What a car. Brought back very ,very fond memories but was not gonna happen.

Then fate did me a favor last winter. I traded in her 2009 G37X on a 2014 Q50S. Car was possessed. Nothing worked right and dealer could/would not repair it. When I got them to buy it back, my wife (her idea) said--if the kids are moving out of town, we don't need two 4 door cars, go get a coupe if you want ( boy, did I pick the right SO )

Well, only because I love her so much, I did not run over her getting out the door to head over to BMW. As luck would have it , there was a mint 2016 M235IX with 9700 mi., certified till 2021 and full maint. till 2020. Deal was done in minutes.

Why this car vs 335 ?? Size, fits me like a glove, more than quick enough,
AWD for daily driving, and its an even better version of the 135i I enjoyed so much especially now that its on Michelin PS AS/3s and the runflats are in my basement.

My only issue with the car was the gray rear valence. Thanks to my buddy out west, when he traded in his M235, he took off the M performance rear bumper and Dinan exhaust to give to his nephew . Never got done so it was sitting in his garage. When I told him I had bought an M235IX he said, I am sending you the exhaust and valence as a gift. ( I paid the shipping )

Its now here in my body shop and going to re-painted white ( his car was red) and they will also install the exhaust. I am also getting the mirror caps and amber reflectors painted Alpine white to match the body.

Only downside to all of this--we now have his and hers white/black BMWs.
I am quite sure all my neighbors think this is obnoxious and I am not arguing with that fact.

[1FUNCAR]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

The B58 in the M240 is still a relatively new motor. My concerns with the B58 are this:

.


All the noted potential issues could causes quite expensive repairs. The B58 is a stellar motor from a performance perspective but its long-term reliability waits to be seen.

That being said, there isn't anything else out there that I like and I'd lose my $2,000 deposit if I were to cancel my order. Does BMW offer any kind of extended powertrain warranty worth considering?

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Snade

I was happily driving a 2015 335i - great car. Our other road car is a 2017 Audi A4.

Great story and always happy to see another MT driver here! After our experience with a 2016 A6, which we just got rid of, also mightly charitable of you to call an Audi a "road" car...I'd call the one we had a "fixit" car.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by 1FUNCAR

That being said, there isn't anything else out there that I like and I'd lose my $2,000 deposit if I were to cancel my order. Does BMW offer any kind of extended powertrain warranty worth considering?

Ask the dealer...I lengthened my BMW warranty to 7 years/70k miles based on my projected usage. They have higher mileage packages too. By doing this as part of the new sale, they negotiated on the warranty price.

[emtrey]

Originally Posted by 1FUNCAR

That being said, there isn't anything else out there that I like and I'd lose my $2,000 deposit if I were to cancel my order. Does BMW offer any kind of extended powertrain warranty worth considering?

BMW has extended warranty programs. Expensive but may give you peace of mind if you are worried about the B58 engine down the road.

Nobody is saying the B58 has serious problems. There just is not as much history available on reliability as the N55s.

[wizee]

Originally Posted by 1FUNCAR

That being said, there isn't anything else out there that I like and I'd lose my $2,000 deposit if I were to cancel my order. Does BMW offer any kind of extended powertrain warranty worth considering?

I wouldn't worry too much and definitely wouldn't cancel an order. I do however agree with the suggestion of others to purchase the extended factory warranty with the new car. The pricing is not too unreasonable, and you can negotiate it down when purchasing the warranty with a new car.

I personally extended the factory 4 year/80,000 km warranty to 6 years/100,000 km (I only drive around 12,000 km/year so I didn't need too much mileage). I negotiated the extended factory warranty down from $3020 CAD to $2700 CAD, and felt it was a good decision financially. It might be possible to negotiate the warranty even further if you try hard enough. I expected to need around $2k CAD worth of repairs over years 5/6 anyway, and felt spending a little extra for peace of mind was worthwhile.

[MDF164]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

The B58 in the M240 is still a relatively new motor. My concerns with the B58 are this:

1) The timing chain is on the back of the motor. Historically, BMWs that used this design have had timing chain and/or timing chain tensioner issues, largely because of the additional heat in the area. If there's a timing chain issue, the motor has to come out.

2) The VANOs system on these cars has historically had some issues. The repairs are generally easy; however, on the B58, the VANOs system is on the back of the motor thus if it fails, the motor is likely coming out now.

3) The B58 has a liquid to air intercooler that's built into the intake manifold. This is a superior design compared to the air to air setup that the N54 and N55 motors use however it's far more complex and uses liquid for cooling. BMWs history with cooling systems is quite terrible. A plastic intake manifold full of coolant spooks me given BMW history. A crack could potentially drain coolant directly into the motor and causes hydrolock and wreck the block and/or head. Plus there are numerous accounts of B58s mysteriously looking coolant. The volume people have to add is alarming to me as it suggests it may be getting consumed. Yikes!

4) The turbo on the B58 has it's own cooling system and separate pump. See my cooling concerns above.


All the noted potential issues could causes quite expensive repairs. The B58 is a stellar motor from a performance perspective but its long-term reliability waits to be seen.

Do your concerns extend to the B46 engine?

[BavarianBrochacho]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Ask the dealer...I lengthened my BMW warranty to 7 years/70k miles based on my projected usage. They have higher mileage packages too. By doing this as part of the new sale, they negotiated on the warranty price.

What did this cost you?

[SliChillax]

Because I wanted a fun rwd coupe and the 4 series didn't handle that good. M2 wasn't out and the M4 I never liked due to the engine.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by MDF164

Do your concerns extend to the B46 engine?

Yes, as the B series motors all utilize generally the same designs regarding the turbo, liquid to air intercooler, and rear mounted timing chain.

[MarkDemma]

So I am still waiting on my M240, but my reasons are very similar to the author of this article. I currently own a E46 330Ci ZHP, so not exactly a E46 M3, but darned close. Sorta like how the M240i is pretty darn close to a M2. Every time I would be looking at another several thousand dollar repair on it after it got into the 6 figure miles, I would take a look at the latest offerings. I was never a fan of the Bangle era 3s and the steering just didn't feel as good as the E46 hydraulic. I'd looked at the 1 series but the interior didn't seem to justify the price point.

But when looking at a Vanos repair I took at look at both the 4 series and the 2 again. The 4, while I really liked the interior, the steering ... well, after the test drive I was actually relieved to be back in my E46 again. I didn't think the 2 would be much different considering it would have the same electric steering. Maybe it was because of the weight difference, but the 2 really did drive pretty damn close to my E46. I figured having all those modern things would make up for the "not quite as good" steering,

https://www.guideautoweb.com/en/arti...e-meant-to-be/

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by BavarianBrochacho

What did this cost you?

The BMW Platinum Plan for 7/70 was $2,460.