[BarryJI]

Check this out at 10:05, when he says that the only modern BMW equivalent of the E30 M3 is the 228i M-Sport!

https://youtu.be/7pntYmoL23M

[CAMOETO]

I can't even... Anyhow, I don't know what that guy is smoking, but the two cars are nothing alike. It's like two different brands made them.

[ralawren]

Originally Posted by CAMOETO

I can't even... Anyhow, I don't know what that guy is smoking, but the two cars are nothing alike. It's like two different brands made them.

I agree, Having driven an 88 M3 and owning a 228i with Track Handling Package I assure you the handling and steering feel are night and day. Add to that the low torque, high revving nature of the M3 and they really drive much differently.

The 228i could easily be the modern interpretation if they improved the steering feel and addressed the lack of negative camber. I think a couple of our forum members have done exactly that. This is why I believe there is a market for a M228i.

[CAMOETO]

Originally Posted by ralawren

I agree, Having driven an 88 M3 and owning a 228i with Track Handling Package I assure you the handling and steering feel are night and day. Add to that the low torque, high revving nature of the M3 and they really drive much differently.

The 228i could easily be the modern interpretation if they improved the steering feel and addressed the lack of negative camber. I think a couple of our forum members have done exactly that. This is why I believe there is a market for a M228i.

I don't know that even with those items addressed they could be considered similar. Besides the nature of power delivery, the e30, is lighter, lower, and smaller. It's very mechanical in feel and chassis communicates to you. The 228i, even with M-sport and track&handling pack rides like a luxury car. I am actually wondering if the 228i with just the M-Sport feels more communicative because of the non-adaptive sport shocks.

[THEOS]

Originally Posted by CAMOETO

I don't know that even with those items addressed they could be considered similar. Besides the nature of power delivery, the e30, is lighter, lower, and smaller. It's very mechanical in feel and chassis communicates to you. The 228i, even with M-sport and track&handling pack rides like a luxury car. I am actually wondering if the 228i with just the M-Sport feels more communicative because of the non-adaptive sport shocks.

I went from a M240i to a 228i with M-Sport (non-adaptive). The steering feel is slightly better but still nowhere near my old e46 M3

The bigger difference came from losing ~200 pounds in the front due to the smaller engine, the car feels much more agile up front.

As to why I went from a M240i to a 228i... that's a long story.

[Viffermike]

The E30 is also 30 years old. In many states, it now qualifies as an antique car.

Great car? Yes. Practical car? For its day. Fast car? For its day ... but it's an absolute, utter dog compared to the 228i/230i.

The 228i/230i (all numbers based on Car and Driver test data):
- is quicker to 60 by nearly two seconds (5.1 vs 6.9 sec)
- does the standing quarter mile more than a second quicker (13.9 at 100 mph vs. at 15.2 sec at 92 mph)
- holds a skidpad with .15g more cornering force (0.96g vs. 0.81g)
- is more powerful by nearly 50 hp, and weighs roughly 300 pounds more
- Torque? Gads, don't even ask ...
- brakes from 70-0 in 27 feet less (152 vs. 179 ft.) with the base brakes
- costs roughly $40k new, while an E30 M3 in 1987 dollars cost $34,500. In today's dollars, that's about $71,000 ...

Personally, I'd rather 'feel' the road a little less ably than 'feel' my E30 hit the the back of a Prius because its brakes are worse ...

... Progress, gents. Progress.

[USA-RET]

I'm assuming his meaning that the 228i and 230i are probably the only modern BMW's that are close to the size and power of that M3. While handling and feel are quite different, I would assume the acceleration and response is similar when driving.

Not to diminish the love people have for classic cars (I too love them), much of the mystique vanishes when I actually drive one for a while. While we all wax nostalgic for the "good old days", IMO, we are actually living in the best of times for automobiles and technology.

[3rdcoast228i]

I love my 228i, it's an absolute blast to drive.

[XutvJet]

Not that Farah is a stellar driver at all, a few years ago he drove the M235 6MT with the LSD and was in total love. He also drove the M235X at the track and was like..."ehhhh" because it lacked the feel and dynamics of the RWD M235 6MT.

[Lew Carrum]

Jesus wept, may as well ask Mo Farah!!

[bimmerfile]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Not that Farah is a stellar driver at all, a few years ago he drove the M235 6MT with the LSD and was in total love. He also drove the M235X at the track and was like..."ehhhh" because it lacked the feel and dynamics of the RWD M235 6MT.

I'm betting he'd love my xDrive ragtop.

[CAMOETO]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

The E30 is also 30 years old. In many states, it now qualifies as an antique car.

Great car? Yes. Practical car? For its day. Fast car? For its day ... but it's an absolute, utter dog compared to the 228i/230i.

The 228i/230i (all numbers based on Car and Driver test data):
- is quicker to 60 by nearly two seconds (5.1 vs 6.9 sec)
- does the standing quarter mile more than a second quicker (13.9 at 100 mph vs. at 15.2 sec at 92 mph)
- holds a skidpad with .15g more cornering force (0.96g vs. 0.81g)
- is more powerful by nearly 50 hp, and weighs roughly 300 pounds more
- Torque? Gads, don't even ask ...
- brakes from 70-0 in 27 feet less (152 vs. 179 ft.) with the base brakes
- costs roughly $40k new, while an E30 M3 in 1987 dollars cost $34,500. In today's dollars, that's about $71,000 ...

Personally, I'd rather 'feel' the road a little less ably than 'feel' my E30 hit the the back of a Prius because its brakes are worse ...

... Progress, gents. Progress.

I guess by that convention, a Camaro SS makes the 228i an utter dog. 0-60 in 3.9, 1/4 in 12.3 @ 116. .98g roadholding. Only weighs about 300-400 pounds more than the 228i while costing only $38k...

Obviously numbers are not all that matters. There are other virtues that can be enjoyed that matter to some people more than pure numbers. Feel, sound, connection with the car, being in control, etc. Look at how an e30 325i station wagon basically stays even with a 340i m-sport on the Streets of Willow:

[pz619]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

The E30 is also 30 years old. In many states, it now qualifies as an antique car.

Great car? Yes. Practical car? For its day. Fast car? For its day ... but it's an absolute, utter dog compared to the 228i/230i.

The 228i/230i (all numbers based on Car and Driver test data):
- is quicker to 60 by nearly two seconds (5.1 vs 6.9 sec)
- does the standing quarter mile more than a second quicker (13.9 at 100 mph vs. at 15.2 sec at 92 mph)
- holds a skidpad with .15g more cornering force (0.96g vs. 0.81g)
- is more powerful by nearly 50 hp, and weighs roughly 300 pounds more
- Torque? Gads, don't even ask ...
- brakes from 70-0 in 27 feet less (152 vs. 179 ft.) with the base brakes
- costs roughly $40k new, while an E30 M3 in 1987 dollars cost $34,500. In today's dollars, that's about $71,000 ...

Personally, I'd rather 'feel' the road a little less ably than 'feel' my E30 hit the the back of a Prius because its brakes are worse ...

... Progress, gents. Progress.

When they say "they don't make them like they use to", I reply with "Thank God".

With that said, I still think the E30 M3 is a cool car.

[Viffermike]

CAMOETO : See pz619 's response.

I appreciate older cars, and the E30 M3 is no exception. Thing is, no one can compare what was produced 30 years ago with what is produced today. Not even Mr. Farah. All he was saying (and a number of other auto pundits have said in the past) is that the 228i/230i is the closest to an E30 M3 that can be bought new today.

Your comparison to the Camaro SS proves my point even more in ways. The 2 Series is a far more refined car than the Camaro, particularly regarding materials and ergonomics. Yes, the Camaro is faster. But the elusive "package" of the 2 Series is, for me anyway, far more satisfying.

Another comparison to chew on: The 228i M Sport w/THP is, by most measures, a better performing car than the Lamborghini Diablo. (I've posted about that elsewhere; do a search for the actual numbers, if you'd like. )

[CAMOETO]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

CAMOETO : See pz619 's response.

I appreciate older cars, and the E30 M3 is no exception. Thing is, no one can compare what was produced 30 years ago with what is produced today. Not even Mr. Farah. All he was saying (and a number of other auto pundits have said in the past) is that the 228i/230i is the closest to an E30 M3 that can be bought new today.

Your comparison to the Camaro SS proves my point even more in ways. The 2 Series is a far more refined car than the Camaro, particularly regarding materials and ergonomics. Yes, the Camaro is faster. But the elusive "package" of the 2 Series is, for me anyway, far more satisfying.

Another comparison to chew on: The 228i M Sport w/THP is, by most measures, a better performing car than the Lamborghini Diablo. (I've posted about that elsewhere; do a search for the actual numbers, if you'd like. )

While I agree that overall the 228i/230i is a much better car overall, especially for a daily driver (or even track car), the e30 has certain qualities that make it more enjoyable in ways that the modern BMW can never be. It would make a really great fun/weekend car.

In general, I think making this kind of comparison is silly on behalf of Farah or any other pundit. Having had seat time in an E30 as well as as every every single model in the 2-series lineup, I just don't see any similarity other than the badge and being the smallest member of the BMW line-up.

Regarding the Camaro SS comparison, yes, the 2-series is a much better car overall (hence I now own a m240i and not a Camaro SS), but I was responding to your argument that the 228i is better than an e30 M3 because of the performance. I don't think anybody would claim otherwise, but as you said, comparing a 30 year old car to a modern one is comparing apples and oranges.

[Mjpgolf1]

I didn’t take what Matt said as him comparing the two cars directly as having the same feel. I think what he meant was that driving the e30 with its lower powered engine and nice handling capabilities you can’t really get into much trouble quickly like you can with a higher powered car. Which the 228/230 is also like that with its good handling characteristics and relatively lower power which makes it easy to drive it closer to its limits. He said right before his comment on the e30 and 228 that he loves the new m3, but the car can basically get crazy quick because of its power, which is what makes the e30 m3 and the 228 similar because they are both relatively easy to manage. I think Matt has enough experience to be able to see that the feel of the e30 m3 is very different than a modern day Bmw.

[123Britt]

Not sure why this topic incites so many defensive comments.
.
The 2 Series is a great platform and each has a different feel and character 228/235 .

I choose the 235 because of the Inline 6 smoothness but that does not make it better or worse. Just my preference, and I am not concerned with what MF thinks because I am the driver of my car and I know what I like .
.
.
Cheers

[3rdcoast228i]

You got to love that BMW inline 6. M235/M240 are beast, would love to have one. But... I ended up getting exactly what I wanted with the 228i. A nice looking car that is a blast to drive. It's been tempting to trade in the 228i and get a new m240i, but the 228i is just too fun. If I had that extra power it would just be trouble. And the extra cost of the m240i would push back my plans to get a truck to add to my fleet.

Still puts a smile on my face every time. And with great MPGs and cheaper insurance, it's also somewhat economical.

[F22228I]

OP, R&T also loves our cars...check the signature and look up the article.

I also love my 228i-Msport. I could imagine the M235i would be fun to drive as well, but may lack balance and get me into trouble way too quickly... I mean the 228i-M gets up to speed plenty quick enough.

[Rayscott]

Originally Posted by 3rdcoast228i

You got to love that BMW inline 6. M235/M240 are beast, would love to have one. But... I ended up getting exactly what I wanted with the 228i. A nice looking car that is a blast to drive. It's been tempting to trade in the 228i and get a new m240i, but the 228i is just too fun. If I had that extra power it would just be trouble. And the extra cost of the m240i would push back my plans to get a truck to add to my fleet.

Still puts a smile on my face every time. And with great MPGs and cheaper insurance, it's also somewhat economical.

Ditto here.

[F22228I]

One other thing I'll throw into the conversation: In my area (Chicagoland), 2-series' are a rare sight in general (compared to 3-,4-,5-,etc series), but the 228i M-sport & M2 are the hardest to catch. I also love this aspect of my car.

M235i/M240i's and regular 228i's are all too common (relatively speaking).

[aozer]

Originally Posted by 3rdcoast228i

You got to love that BMW inline 6. M235/M240 are beast, would love to have one. But... I ended up getting exactly what I wanted with the 228i. A nice looking car that is a blast to drive. It's been tempting to trade in the 228i and get a new m240i, but the 228i is just too fun. If I had that extra power it would just be trouble. And the extra cost of the m240i would push back my plans to get a truck to add to my fleet.

Still puts a smile on my face every time. And with great MPGs and cheaper insurance, it's also somewhat economical.

My insurance only went up a couple of bucks a month when I switched from the 228 to the 235. I definitely eat up a lot more gas tho. When I drive conservatively I don't notice much difference between the n20 and the n55 but I almost never drive conservatively.