[p912guy]

Here's an update from BMW Blog we'll all be happy to read:

https://www.bmwblog.com/2019/10/21/b...ll-remain-rwd/

[celsdogg]

that's great news! the only thing they will share is a nameplate!

too bad about the 'vert though. wonder what the story is on a MT.

[MarkDemma]

Hopefully they'll still offer the manual on the M240i successor as well for old codger holdouts like me.

AND NOT SLAP ON A REDICULOUS GRILL.

[msej449]

I think they'll change their minds about a convertible, in the end, as looking at the European sales figures, the convertible is 55% of 2 Series sales i.e. more than the coupé. I'd be surprised if they were happy to give up that proportion of a 'local' market share.

I don't quite see how the article's claim that 'The sales of the drop top 2 Series weren’t doing too good' stand up. Although, of course, they might have been talking about global numbers.

[stein_325i]

Great news! But going with BMW's recent trends, I have a feeling the next 2er will exhibit two controversial items of the new G-chassis vehicles.

1) A controversial/large grill. Scott26 seems to confirm this.
2) Manual will likely be reserved for the M2/M2C. Based on the Z4 and 3er losing the manual, I doubt BMW will give the 240 a manual and will just put it in the M2, which they have confirmed that future M2/3/4's will receive manuals.

[VIN240i13]

Originally Posted by msej449

I think they'll change their minds about a convertible, in the end.....

During my recent trip to the BMW Dealer for scheduled maintenance and a software update, I overheard a conversation on this topic between a customer and one of the floor Sales Mgr. This dealership did not have any convertibles in stock and basically what they said was unless something changes, (have no idea what he meant by "something") the 2 Series vert option was going away in the US market for the next version.

If that is the case and it actually does "go away" I am thinking that values for the rag top may hold steady when it comes time to replace?

[stein_325i]

I mean, the Z4 will essentially take place of the 2er vert, only thing it lacks is rear seats, which then they'll try to sell the 4er vert for (and the new one will go back to a soft top)

[4Hockey4]

Originally Posted by joshuastein55

Great news! But going with BMW's recent trends, I have a feeling the next 2er will exhibit two controversial items of the new G-chassis vehicles.

1) A controversial/large grill. Scott26 seems to confirm this.
2) Manual will likely be reserved for the M2/M2C. Based on the Z4 and 3er losing the manual, I doubt BMW will give the 240 a manual and will just put it in the M2, which they have confirmed that future M2/3/4's will receive manuals.

like this ? 2 dr Accord

https://www.motor1.com/news/354487/b...upe-rendering/

[XutvJet]

I bet the I6 option will be dropped for the standard 2 series and saved for the M2 to establish a wider power gap. I bet there will be the following:

1) A standard I4 turbo
2) A M performance I4 turbo like the one currently offered in the X2 M235i
3) M2 with the Z4's B58

[keylime503]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I bet the I6 option will be dropped for the standard 2 series and saved for the M2 to establish a wider power gap. I bet there will be the following:

1) A standard I4 turbo
2) A M performance I4 turbo like the one currently offered in the X2 M235i
3) M2 with the Z4's B58

The performance I4 turbo you're thinking of is a transverse engine for the FWD ex-mini cooper cars (X1, X2, 1, 2 GC). It won't be in the new 2 series coupe.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by 4Hockey4

like this ? 2 dr Accord

https://www.motor1.com/news/354487/b...upe-rendering/

No, it will at least have a long hood with RWD proportions and look probably like a smaller 4-series (grill and all) rather than the fwd based 1 series/2GC

[kaputt]

Considering they always talk about the 2 series as their offering to the brand purists, I really hope they keep a manual in it.

I think they could have smoothed their 2 Gran Coule release in the US if it had offered a manual. I actually bet the m235i version of the GC would be a fun car with a manual.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by keylime503

The performance I4 turbo you're thinking of is a transverse engine for the FWD ex-mini cooper cars (X1, X2, 1, 2 GC). It won't be in the new 2 series coupe.

It's just a performance version of the B48 already used in many other RWD BMWs (including the current gen 2 series) and even the Supra. Why wouldn't they use it?

In a perfect world, they'd offer two turbo motors, an I4 and I6, in the standard 2 series like they have done, but I'm not seeing it given BMW's focus on MPGs. The factory modded B48 is clearly underrated as it motivates the ~3,800 the X2 M35i to a 13.3@105mph 1/4 mile. A 3,400-3,500 lb 2 series would be a few ticks quicker and would be comparable to the current M235/M240 plus it sheds weight from the car. By offering the B58 used in the Z4, they would most certainly then have to offer the S58 in the M2. That would be awesome, but I don't see it happening. I see the base 2 series getting the current B48, the upscale MPerformance variant getting a further tweaked B48, and the M2 with a tweaked B58 that's currently used in the Z4. All these current motors still have some headroom.

I really hope they keep a manual option, but seeing that the take rate in the non-M cars was 10% or less, I don't see it happening. BMW doesn't want to offer manuals anymore. Too much cost and they have no control in the driver's inputs. They love autos because they have total control over what the driver can and can't do with the motor and trans.

[Sportstick]

This is very worrisome...it wasn't just a concept after all...

https://jalopnik.com/were-really-doi...huh-1839290802

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

This is very worrisome...it wasn't just a concept after all...

https://jalopnik.com/were-really-doi...huh-1839290802

Yep, its bad, really bad. I just got back into BMW for the 2 series, so if they pull this shit on the 2er (and based on what Scott26 says, they likely will) I don't know if I would be able to stay. This isn't a design I will likely warm up to.

[keylime503]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

It's just a performance version of the B48 already used in many other RWD BMWs (including the current gen 2 series) and even the Supra. Why wouldn't they use it?

I did not realize the B48 is used in both transverse and longitudinal setups. My bad.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I see the base 2 series getting the current B48, the upscale MPerformance variant getting a further tweaked B48, and the M2 with a tweaked B58 that's currently used in the Z4. All these current motors still have some headroom.

This is exactly how they separate the Mini Cooper S and Mini JCW; same motor, different pistons, fuel and tune. I bet that's also how how the new 2 series coupes, 230 & M235i will be tiered.

The manual take rate is pretty low, as you pointed and just from the haste and justification I get here from auto/DCT owners, I could tell the manual is really not as popular as some of us enthusiasts assumed it was, plus the cost of the ZF8 per unit is already stabilized in pricing and R&D, so it's cheaper for them to implement across the board.

So it's almost a guarantee that BMW would offer the non-M cars auto only. A manual option would be reserved for the M2.

Which is sad because there is still a middle ground of potential buyers that still wants a small, manual, 6 cylinder, without all the fanfare of a full-blown M car.

[Nomadic]

Originally Posted by joshuastein55

I mean, the Z4 will essentially take place of the 2er vert, only thing it lacks is rear seats, which then they'll try to sell the 4er vert for (and the new one will go back to a soft top)

That would be disappointing. Rear seats are a must have for me (kids) and having just taken deliver of a 240 Convertible and then driving a 4 series coupe (loaner), they're world apart.

[RoundelM3]

Originally Posted by joshuastein55

I mean, the Z4 will essentially take place of the 2er vert, only thing it lacks is rear seats, which then they'll try to sell the 4er vert for (and the new one will go back to a soft top)

I disagree - the Z4 is far more expensive than the 2-series convertible, and is smaller inside. The 4-series convertible will be significantly larger than the 2. Having owned both 1- and 2-series convertibles, I'd hate to see this size BMW disappear.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by RoundelM3

I disagree - the Z4 is far more expensive than the 2-series convertible, and is smaller inside. The 4-series convertible will be significantly larger than the 2. Having owned both 1- and 2-series convertibles, I'd hate to see this size BMW disappear.

I know the price isn't the same, but what BMW is essentially saying is if you want a small convertible, the Z4 is their option, taking place of the smaller 2 series, and if you want a bigger vert, they have the 4.

[MarkDemma]

Originally Posted by Nomadic

That would be disappointing. Rear seats are a must have for me (kids) and having just taken deliver of a 240 Convertible and then driving a 4 series coupe (loaner), they're world apart.

I see the Z4 as a second (or third) "fun" car that you tool around in on nice weekends. Assuming you are someone that can afford a car just to tool around in.

I see the 2 convertible as a car you can pull the top down and have fun on the weekends, but also can take grocery shopping and fit 2 (younger) kids into.

Some cars that weren't designed as an exclusive convertible, it doesn't translate very well but with the 2 it looks really good. They are probably worried that if you can get the same engine, two back seats and a usable trunk in a car that looks pretty good why pay the extra $10+K for a car that arguably doesn't look better?

[p912guy]

Originally Posted by joshuastein55

I know the price isn't the same, but what BMW is essentially saying is if you want a small convertible, the Z4 is their option, taking place of the smaller 2 series, and if you want a bigger vert, they have the 4.

Fortunately I won't need to make a decision on a replacement for my M235 convertible for a few more years. That said, I think I am leaning more and more toward the Z4 M40i, especially with the latest 4 Series spy photos and the Concept 4 reveal. I also really like the size of the 2 Series and I think the new 4 Series will just be too large.