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      01-12-2018, 12:08 PM   #23
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THE BADGE:
I agree that the badge looks like a dealership badge and no one knows what in the world it is and it’s really nothing more than free advertising for DINAN. I took the badges off the car other than the BMW logos and am thus in partial “stealth.” I didn’t particularly want the DINAN badge, I was more commenting on the fact that the badge only represents how much money you spent not “Building DINANA cars” since you can get the 10 points from means other than performance. I did that case study as just a general example with some general opinions about the stuff you can buy and get the required DINAN points. People can argue the technical minutia’s of each item and its value for car you drive on a street not a track, but the real point was just you don’t have to have DINAN performance to get the badge and that’s what I think is not the way it should be.

DINAN MOVING:
Flowmaster owns DINAN and Flowmaster bought another company called APR which is also a performance product manufacture (https://www.goapr.com/) and it’s is located in Opelika Alabama . As a result, in order to save on operating expenses DINAN has decided to occupy some of the empty space in the APR facility. The Northern California (Greater Bay Area) is of course a very expensive area and so by moving to Alabama they hope to cut operating costs down. So soon I guess APR and DINAN parts will be on en the same but APR focuses on Porche, VW, Audi.

DINAN REBRANDING:
Yes DINAN apparently buys from many after-market companies and has licensing agreements to re-brand them as DINAN when in fact it’s not. According to someone at DINAN a good portion of their suspension items outside of the Intake, exhaust and computer are produced by other companies rebranded and sold as DINAN. DINAN does a tremendous amount of research and development related to their exhausts, computers and intakes and make probably some of the best on the market, but they sell it at a high premium and are thus much more costly than their competition. But the warranty is worth it and you do get a good solid product from them that ramp of the vehicles performance quite a bit. I just personally feel a lot of that suspension stuff isn’t necessary it’s more track related and the Engineers at BMW are some of the best in the industry and design these things for performance and have more money and facilities at their disposal to ensure they design the best product that they can. The suspensions and so on are some of the best designed products in the industry and BMW engineers really know what they are doing. I have heard stories of people putting DINAN suspension stuff and eventually taking it back out because the BMW didn’t handle as well post DINAN. No question that DINAN is good at designing things that make the car faster and more powerful, but BMW is at the top of the game when it comes to engineering the engines, the handling and performance of their cars for a reason. Are DINAN springs, bump-stops worth it? Meh.. maybe. The “DINAN” bump stops are from BMW.. so.. The buyout of APR will odiously further contribute to this as well.

STREET VS. TRACK
When you talk about things like lowing cars, and hardening suspensions, bump stops, springs, camber plates etc you are doing things that make the car to me less “daily-driver” and more of a weekend car to race on a track or street race with. If you want a BMW street/track car as a second car and drive a Honda or a Subaru during the week it’s one thing, but if this is your car then not being able to go over speed bumps at more than one mile an hour, potholes bottoming you out and so on are all reasons to pause and say, is this car going to work for me in my area driving it around? Even DINAN agrees that a lowered stiffer car is less driver friendly for daily use. Or is it going to be a pain the ars? There are so many people out there that have strong arguments about the deficiencies and problems associated with all that suspension modifications that have as much experience as the others arguing with them. BMW makes an amazing product and I personally feel it has got to be hard if not near impossible for most of these small shops to make something better. Unless you’re buying $12,000 OZ Italian rims how many people out there really make a better product without dropping ungodly amounts of money? That’s when you start talking about cars like the Ferrari FF, McLaren 675LT or Lamborghini suspension systems in $300,000 dollar cars. We are never going to have anything that performs like the BMW M5 G-Power Hurricane RRs with its 830HP and a price tag of close to $500,000.

M2 VS. M240 (Now let’s be reasonable)
Honestly what’s so great about the M2 or the M3 over the M240? I have driven M3s, M4s and a host of other really cool cars when I lived in Italy and yes they are amazing cars that drive like machines made for the love of the road, but the M240i-DINAN is an amazing Carl-Carlton-Mama-Jamma. With the intake, Computer and exhaust the 3700 pound car has 425HP with over 480ftlb of torque. That car is already so fast and handles so well with an acceleration that is almost frightening at times that I ask you, what normal person would ever want or even be able to experience the full potential of that car on anything other than a race track? Like Darth Vader says it’s “Impressive, most impressive.” M2 from the factory has 361HP the spec sheets are wrong and people have tested it for verification including DINAN. The M240i has 369HP stock the spec-sheets are wrong and people have tested it for verification including DINAN. Yes the M2 looks a little meaner with those flared out fenders to provide the additional coverage/space for a more offset or oversized wheel/tire and the rocker panels and front air vents and such. However other than to a discerning eye and someone who likes cars, the differences in look is negligible. Most of your wives and girlfriends who could care less about this stuff would look at the two and be like, “Um, yeah I guess it looks different.” I have seen the M2 and sat in it, I find it less comfortable, and the aggressive look is well just OK I guess. I think the M240 looks classier and more European to me for some reason. All those extra lines on the M2 are just cosmetic and only moderately noticeable to people that aren’t all in to this stuff. All the Gear-head / Car-nerds can argue about the finer points & differences between the two but when you really get down to it, M240-DINAN has more power than the stock M2 and I’m not Mario Andretti so can I really feel the difference in the handling of the allegedly better suspension system while driving on roads without risking jail time or not being able to drive anything because I lost my license driving like that? And remember the M240 has an M Suspension system and if you want you can throw on a couple high end suspension changes and the M240i will have a better suspension and you have still spent less money. The M240i actually has more torque (369lb ft vs 343lb ft) and torque is what you feel when you hit that gas pedal and feel your body pushed in to that seat. The M2 sits lower than the M240 and on stiffer springs which to me makes the M240 a better car to drive day to day from that standpoint at least, but if someone wanted to they can change the springs for a minimal cost. The M2 has a little more stability and stiffness but you lose comfort in the ride. Check out this comparison video (https://www.carthrottle.com/post/a-b...ed-comparison/) So my Manual transmission M240 with the B58 single twin-scroll turbocharged engine is faster at points and that’s stock to stock and it’s because of the fact that the 240 has more HP and more torque. “… a speed comparison that’s since been filmed by a Dutch YouTube channel shows the M240i to be a little quicker.” The article that compares the two is a pretty good one. The rev battle video is stock to stock but this DINAN exhaust I have sounds amazing! I love it. According to the article it’s the differential that is the largest difference in the cars making the M2 better at cornering. Since I put the limited slip differential in it, it’s not really an issue with my M240. Basically my point is yes there are differences between them, but do the differences really justify the added cost for people that drive on roads in America? And are most people that good where they can get in an M240i-DINAN with LSD and an M2 and be like “Oh yeah man the M2 is different” when you would have to spend more money above the already higher cost to get the M2 past the M240-DINAN’s capabilities? It just seems like all this is really in the realm of theory and unless you’re a gear head/Car-nerd that has somewhere you can drive like Dale Earnhardt Jr, Ernest Knoors or Lewis Hamilton. Just my dos centavos. I know it’s just opinion, but I think it’s a fairly reasonable one. Most of us drive on the road and like staying out of jail.
I agree with Ron Jeffries, people should buy what they want. In speaking with a DINAN engineer I don’t know if Xutvjet’s statement is accurate, DINAN said the intake makes a significant performance improvements with a gain in 10 to 12 HP plus additional torque. I think the M2 may have a little bit of a kit look in the lines, it’s just me, and it’s all about taste and I know that VIN240i3 likes the M2 look, but I personally think the M240i looks classier and something that I think a European-American like me (I’m part Terrone - Southern Italian and part Polentone – Northern Italian) would like more. I like DINAN’s product, even though it’s a bit pricy, it’s just dealing with them reminds me of going in to a cigar shop and dealing with those aficionados, a lot of arrogance almost like we are there for them, rather than they are there for us. I asked for a long sticker and they said no sir that’s $62. What? $62 for a sticker? Give me a break. I drive a manual, I always have as I do not really care for automatics, so the DCT means little to me. Maybe an Intercooler or oil cooler might help and be worth considering.

Cheers and have a great MLK day.
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      01-12-2018, 12:11 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylan86 View Post
I'd take the underrated M235/40 over the M2, if you're a "modder" type, and here's why.

Aside from tack width, brakes, and suspension, it's essentially the same car. In Canada the value is much different, you can't get a loaded M2 under $80k. So the $49K(CDN) I spent on my M235 leaves $30+k on the table. Keep 20 in my weed investments, and spent $10k on modding, I'm much further ahead :P

For under $10k I was able to acquire the following (keep in mind for $49k I got the MP edition kit, bodywork and LSD):

KW Clubsport Coilovers
Meagan racing 4 link replacement arms
Powerflex rear LCA bushings, Superpro Subframe bushings, and Derlin differential bushings
M2/3/4 LCA/TS's
Apex ARC8 18x9 square setup
Hotckis F&R Sway bars
F30 Front 370mm calipers
Bimmerworld Brake lines
JB4/Meth setup (360whp range)
VRSF DP, Intercooler (race), BMS intake

In reality, I am still $20k in savings from a bone stock M2, and am confident they'd have an extremely hard time trying to keep up. I'd be looking at $100k to get a factory M2 to the point where I'd be happy.

I feel I have made a compromise, to suit my modding "needs", the M2 has a price premium, that's my only point. If value isn't an issue, and you want the "best", go for the M2. I would buy an M2 in a heartbeat if I knew I could keep it stock, lol

D
Good points, I agree with you! Only I wouldn't get the M2, I think an M240 with all that cool stuff on it is a neater car and your car will smoke a stock M2.
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      01-12-2018, 12:16 PM   #25
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THE BADGE:
I agree that the badge looks like a dealership badge and no one knows what in the world it is and it’s really nothing more than free advertising for DINAN. I took the badges off the car other than the BMW logos and am thus in partial “stealth.” I didn’t particularly want the DINAN badge, I was more commenting on the fact that the badge only represents how much money you spent not “Building DINANA cars” since you can get the 10 points from means other than performance. I did that case study as just a general example with some general opinions about the stuff you can buy and get the required DINAN points. People can argue the technical minutia’s of each item and its value for car you drive on a street not a track, but the real point was just you don’t have to have DINAN performance to get the badge and that’s what I think is not the way it should be.

DINAN MOVING:
Flowmaster owns DINAN and Flowmaster bought another company called APR which is also a performance product manufacture (https://www.goapr.com/) and it’s is located in Opelika Alabama . As a result, in order to save on operating expenses DINAN has decided to occupy some of the empty space in the APR facility. The Northern California (Greater Bay Area) is of course a very expensive area and so by moving to Alabama they hope to cut operating costs down. So soon I guess APR and DINAN parts will be on en the same but APR focuses on Porche, VW, Audi.

DINAN REBRANDING:
Yes DINAN apparently buys from many after-market companies and has licensing agreements to re-brand them as DINAN when in fact it’s not. According to someone at DINAN a good portion of their suspension items outside of the Intake, exhaust and computer are produced by other companies rebranded and sold as DINAN. DINAN does a tremendous amount of research and development related to their exhausts, computers and intakes and make probably some of the best on the market, but they sell it at a high premium and are thus much more costly than their competition. But the warranty is worth it and you do get a good solid product from them that ramp of the vehicles performance quite a bit. I just personally feel a lot of that suspension stuff isn’t necessary it’s more track related and the Engineers at BMW are some of the best in the industry and design these things for performance and have more money and facilities at their disposal to ensure they design the best product that they can. The suspensions and so on are some of the best designed products in the industry and BMW engineers really know what they are doing. I have heard stories of people putting DINAN suspension stuff and eventually taking it back out because the BMW didn’t handle as well post DINAN. No question that DINAN is good at designing things that make the car faster and more powerful, but BMW is at the top of the game when it comes to engineering the engines, the handling and performance of their cars for a reason. Are DINAN springs, bump-stops worth it? Meh.. maybe. The “DINAN” bump stops are from BMW.. so.. The buyout of APR will odiously further contribute to this as well.

STREET VS. TRACK
When you talk about things like lowing cars, and hardening suspensions, bump stops, springs, camber plates etc you are doing things that make the car to me less “daily-driver” and more of a weekend car to race on a track or street race with. If you want a BMW street/track car as a second car and drive a Honda or a Subaru during the week it’s one thing, but if this is your car then not being able to go over speed bumps at more than one mile an hour, potholes bottoming you out and so on are all reasons to pause and say, is this car going to work for me in my area driving it around? Even DINAN agrees that a lowered stiffer car is less driver friendly for daily use. Or is it going to be a pain the ars? There are so many people out there that have strong arguments about the deficiencies and problems associated with all that suspension modifications that have as much experience as the others arguing with them. BMW makes an amazing product and I personally feel it has got to be hard if not near impossible for most of these small shops to make something better. Unless you’re buying $12,000 OZ Italian rims how many people out there really make a better product without dropping ungodly amounts of money? That’s when you start talking about cars like the Ferrari FF, McLaren 675LT or Lamborghini suspension systems in $300,000 dollar cars. We are never going to have anything that performs like the BMW M5 G-Power Hurricane RRs with its 830HP and a price tag of close to $500,000.

M2 VS. M240 (Now let’s be reasonable)
Honestly what’s so great about the M2 or the M3 over the M240? I have driven M3s, M4s and a host of other really cool cars when I lived in Italy and yes they are amazing cars that drive like machines made for the love of the road, but the M240i-DINAN is an amazing Carl-Carlton-Mama-Jamma. With the intake, Computer and exhaust the 3700 pound car has 425HP with over 480ftlb of torque. That car is already so fast and handles so well with an acceleration that is almost frightening at times that I ask you, what normal person would ever want or even be able to experience the full potential of that car on anything other than a race track? Like Darth Vader says it’s “Impressive, most impressive.” M2 from the factory has 361HP the spec sheets are wrong and people have tested it for verification including DINAN. The M240i has 369HP stock the spec-sheets are wrong and people have tested it for verification including DINAN. Yes the M2 looks a little meaner with those flared out fenders to provide the additional coverage/space for a more offset or oversized wheel/tire and the rocker panels and front air vents and such. However other than to a discerning eye and someone who likes cars, the differences in look is negligible. Most of your wives and girlfriends who could care less about this stuff would look at the two and be like, “Um, yeah I guess it looks different.” I have seen the M2 and sat in it, I find it less comfortable, and the aggressive look is well just OK I guess. I think the M240 looks classier and more European to me for some reason. All those extra lines on the M2 are just cosmetic and only moderately noticeable to people that aren’t all in to this stuff. All the Gear-head / Car-nerds can argue about the finer points & differences between the two but when you really get down to it, M240-DINAN has more power than the stock M2 and I’m not Mario Andretti so can I really feel the difference in the handling of the allegedly better suspension system while driving on roads without risking jail time or not being able to drive anything because I lost my license driving like that? And remember the M240 has an M Suspension system and if you want you can throw on a couple high end suspension changes and the M240i will have a better suspension and you have still spent less money. The M240i actually has more torque (369lb ft vs 343lb ft) and torque is what you feel when you hit that gas pedal and feel your body pushed in to that seat. The M2 sits lower than the M240 and on stiffer springs which to me makes the M240 a better car to drive day to day from that standpoint at least, but if someone wanted to they can change the springs for a minimal cost. The M2 has a little more stability and stiffness but you lose comfort in the ride. Check out this comparison video (https://www.carthrottle.com/post/a-b...ed-comparison/) So my Manual transmission M240 with the B58 single twin-scroll turbocharged engine is faster at points and that’s stock to stock and it’s because of the fact that the 240 has more HP and more torque. “… a speed comparison that’s since been filmed by a Dutch YouTube channel shows the M240i to be a little quicker.” The article that compares the two is a pretty good one. The rev battle video is stock to stock but this DINAN exhaust I have sounds amazing! I love it. According to the article it’s the differential that is the largest difference in the cars making the M2 better at cornering. Since I put the limited slip differential in it, it’s not really an issue with my M240. Basically my point is yes there are differences between them, but do the differences really justify the added cost for people that drive on roads in America? And are most people that good where they can get in an M240i-DINAN with LSD and an M2 and be like “Oh yeah man the M2 is different” when you would have to spend more money above the already higher cost to get the M2 past the M240-DINAN’s capabilities? It just seems like all this is really in the realm of theory and unless you’re a gear head/Car-nerd that has somewhere you can drive like Dale Earnhardt Jr, Ernest Knoors or Lewis Hamilton. Just my dos centavos. I know it’s just opinion, but I think it’s a fairly reasonable one. Most of us drive on the road and like staying out of jail.
I agree with Ron Jeffries, people should buy what they want. In speaking with a DINAN engineer I don’t know if Xutvjet’s statement is accurate, DINAN said the intake makes a significant performance improvements with a gain in 10 to 12 HP plus additional torque. I think the M2 may have a little bit of a kit look in the lines, it’s just me, and it’s all about taste and I know that VIN240i3 likes the M2 look, but I personally think the M240i looks classier and something that I think a European-American like me (I’m part Terrone - Southern Italian and part Polentone – Northern Italian) would like more. I like DINAN’s product, even though it’s a bit pricy, it’s just dealing with them reminds me of going in to a cigar shop and dealing with those aficionados, a lot of arrogance almost like we are there for them, rather than they are there for us. I asked for a long sticker and they said no sir that’s $62. What? $62 for a sticker? Give me a break. I drive a manual, I always have as I do not really care for automatics, so the DCT means little to me. Maybe an Intercooler or oil cooler might help and be worth considering. Is one better than the other? to me and for me I feel the M240 is better for me.

Cheers and have a great MLK day.
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      01-12-2018, 01:02 PM   #26
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I feel like the OP believes what he is told and reads, is regurgitating DINAN literature, and hasn't done much research about these cars.
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      01-12-2018, 01:18 PM   #27
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Love/Hate relationship

I have been reading various forums, and watching videos as well as talking to BMW, DINAN and a local modification company that specializes in German cars. That's why part of my post has some trash talk about DINAN and other parts i give them props where it's deserved. I try and make it clear when I'm regurgitating what DINAN said and when i'm not. I have a love hate relationship with them, I like the product but not really the company. DO I think they can improve as a company? Heck yeah. DO I think they make a good product? Heck yeah, but they over charge for it. I have spent quite a bit of time talking to BMW people, modification guys and local people I know that race cars (armature and for money). I stand b what I was saying but of course am always open to be corrected or further enlightened.
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      01-13-2018, 08:36 AM   #28
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Ummm camber plates on street are fine. Look at your front tire outer shoulder wear and tell me you shouldnt dial in a bit of negative.
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      01-14-2018, 09:25 AM   #29
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Do think it would make a significant improvement on handling as well as help extend the life of these super expensive tires? Should the camber angle be kept at zero (0) in order to maintain better tire life? Or is the standard already at Zero(0)? I know Negative angle improves with cornering and zero is for straight away racing but does negative angle diminish tire life? It seems like a lot people say that it improves handling and they can feel the difference. DINAN charges $635 for the camber plates and it’s like $300 in labor to have them installed, so round numbers of $1000. It might be worth it if it not only improved handling (Taking it closer to M2 level handling) along with the springs that cost $300 plus $300 in labor, so the whole thing if I did it at once would probably be like $1400 -$1500. Is it worth the investment? I have never driven a car before and after to say. Do you throw in bump stops as well At the same time for another $200 plus another hundred or two hundred in labor? It seems like doing the camber plates, springs and bump stops would be like $1700 or $1800. Is it worth the investment? Some forums seem to be saying it would bring the car to essentially M2 performance / handling levels. What do you think?
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      01-14-2018, 11:58 AM   #30
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The problem with camber plates is that they ALL will eventually rattle and clunk, some worse that others. These are racecar parts and one should be aware of the compromises of running racecar parts on street cars. The plates are not designed with NVH in mind, but rather performance and adjustability. They also will not be happy living in areas that experience salty winter roads and the debris and salt will kill them quickly.

Many go with M3/4 LCAs and tension struts to increase camber, but the compromise is that suspension gets pushed into a position it wasn't intended to operate. Many report weird clunks, suspension pops, rattles and strut top hat bearings dying early deaths.

Lowering springs will help increase camber a bit and is the safest and easiest way to gain some camber.

Yes, the 2 series doesn't run much camber (~ -1 degree) and can munch through the front tire shoulders fairly quickly, especially if routinely driven hard or tracked. However, for the street, -1 degree is quite acceptable and decent for daily and light track fun. Heck, most stock late model Porsches run this amount of camber which can't be adjusted either. If you're doing track stuff in this car, you really should have a separate set of wheels and tires as the OEM MPSS tires really aren't designed for real track duty. They're fine for auto-x, but beyond that, they get greasy when they heat up and are run hot for extended periods.

I have absolutely no intentions to increase the camber on my M235. I've done camber changes on other cars and the negatives during daily driving out weigh the positives gained during racing. The way I'm going to help the front end is by running 245/35R18s on the front once my 225/40R18 MPSS wear out. The sidewalls of the 245/35s are stiffer and the tires themselves have 1.3" wider tread width than the 225/40. The 245/35 is much more square when mounted to an 8" wide rim whereas the 225/40 is slightly stretched even on the OEM 7.5" wide rim and fairly stretched on my aftermarket 8" wide rims. The narrower tire will give a more direct initial steering response, but that's about it. In a 3,400+ lb car with 52% weight over the front end, the tire is just too narrow and the stretch increases the potential for shoulder wear, IMO.

With that said, my MPSS tires have 17K miles on them and outer shoulders still have 5K-7K miles left in them. To get 25K miles out of a set of grippy summer tires is completely acceptable. And I do drive pretty hard on the street as well.
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Last edited by XutvJet; 01-14-2018 at 12:04 PM..
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      01-14-2018, 07:06 PM   #31
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As you can see, I am all-in with Dinan and have never regretted it for a moment. This is a very balanced, refined tune for the street but it can still get your adrenaline going. The performance exhaust is very high quality. The performance suspension, combined with the retuned shocks, really plants the car at all speeds and the bumpstops are completely trouble-free. Above all, potential customers must realise that Dinan's principal client relationship is with the local dealers, not the end-user. I always advise everyone not to use a Dinan-licensed dealer but a BMW tuner shop where you can benefit from more expert technicians and from that shop's relationship with the supplier (Dinan). As for the badge, mine is still in its envelope; it's just not my style to wear it on the car.

I have absolutely no beef with Dinan's products, their customer relations, their sourcing or their prices. The last two are subject to the very deep research and testing that they do with both their tunes and their suspension products.
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      01-14-2018, 07:45 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CE750Jockey View Post
Thumbs up on the performance gains from Dinan. But the DINAN badge? It's a badge! Big whoop. Seriously? I wouldn't put that billboard on my car if it came with the cheapest Dinan tune. It's inartful and unimaginative, and adds nothing to the aesthetics of the car. It outta come with a roll of dental floss so you can remove it after realizing you've defiled a beautiful car.
Badge is on my 235, and for quite some time. I have no plans to remove it either.
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      01-14-2018, 11:46 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
The problem with camber plates is that they ALL will eventually rattle and clunk, some worse that others. These are racecar parts and one should be aware of the compromises of running racecar parts on street cars. The plates are not designed with NVH in mind, but rather performance and adjustability. They also will not be happy living in areas that experience salty winter roads and the debris and salt will kill them quickly.

Many go with M3/4 LCAs and tension struts to increase camber, but the compromise is that suspension gets pushed into a position it wasn't intended to operate. Many report weird clunks, suspension pops, rattles and strut top hat bearings dying early deaths.

Lowering springs will help increase camber a bit and is the safest and easiest way to gain some camber.

Yes, the 2 series doesn't run much camber (~ -1 degree) and can munch through the front tire shoulders fairly quickly, especially if routinely driven hard or tracked. However, for the street, -1 degree is quite acceptable and decent for daily and light track fun. Heck, most stock late model Porsches run this amount of camber which can't be adjusted either. If you're doing track stuff in this car, you really should have a separate set of wheels and tires as the OEM MPSS tires really aren't designed for real track duty. They're fine for auto-x, but beyond that, they get greasy when they heat up and are run hot for extended periods.

I have absolutely no intentions to increase the camber on my M235. I've done camber changes on other cars and the negatives during daily driving out weigh the positives gained during racing. The way I'm going to help the front end is by running 245/35R18s on the front once my 225/40R18 MPSS wear out. The sidewalls of the 245/35s are stiffer and the tires themselves have 1.3" wider tread width than the 225/40. The 245/35 is much more square when mounted to an 8" wide rim whereas the 225/40 is slightly stretched even on the OEM 7.5" wide rim and fairly stretched on my aftermarket 8" wide rims. The narrower tire will give a more direct initial steering response, but that's about it. In a 3,400+ lb car with 52% weight over the front end, the tire is just too narrow and the stretch increases the potential for shoulder wear, IMO.

With that said, my MPSS tires have 17K miles on them and outer shoulders still have 5K-7K miles left in them. To get 25K miles out of a set of grippy summer tires is completely acceptable. And I do drive pretty hard on the street as well.

Thank you so much, you have strengthened my resolve that springs, camber and BumpStops are not worth it. Greatly appreciate your detailed analysis. I live the computer/Tune, love the exhaust and am waiting for the intake but I think you’re right larger tires will resolve it and all that other stuff just isn’t worth it.
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      01-15-2018, 12:56 PM   #34
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This caught my attention, any idea where in Alabama, I was unable to find any reference to this on their web site.
Dinan just posted on Facebook they were moving to Opelika, Alabama to APR's facilities to take advantage of engineering and development synergies. Seems a smart move to me!
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      01-15-2018, 01:36 PM   #35
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Yeah and there is already empty space there they can use so no additional rent costs.
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      01-15-2018, 02:20 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenpo Karate View Post
Thank you so much, you have strengthened my resolve that springs, camber and BumpStops are not worth it. Greatly appreciate your detailed analysis. I live the computer/Tune, love the exhaust and am waiting for the intake but I think you’re right larger tires will resolve it and all that other stuff just isn’t worth it.
Keep in mind that if you drive hard all the time and/or use the car at the track often, the wider tires and/or lowering springs will only go so far. You definitely need more camber if this car will see a lot of track time. Not only for wear, but also the handling/steering benefits. If my M235 saw a lot of track time, it would have high end coilovers and camber plates for sure.
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      01-16-2018, 07:42 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by BarryJI View Post
As you can see, I am all-in with Dinan and have never regretted it for a moment. This is a very balanced, refined tune for the street but it can still get your adrenaline going. The performance exhaust is very high quality. The performance suspension, combined with the retuned shocks, really plants the car at all speeds and the bumpstops are completely trouble-free. Above all, potential customers must realise that Dinan's principal client relationship is with the local dealers, not the end-user. I always advise everyone not to use a Dinan-licensed dealer but a BMW tuner shop where you can benefit from more expert technicians and from that shop's relationship with the supplier (Dinan). As for the badge, mine is still in its envelope; it's just not my style to wear it on the car.

I have absolutely no beef with Dinan's products, their customer relations, their sourcing or their prices. The last two are subject to the very deep research and testing that they do with both their tunes and their suspension products.
This is curious to me. Isn't part of the attraction to Dinan the fact that it's installed at a "Dinan-licensed" dealer? Is a "BMW tuner shop" install as equally warranted as the other? I would think that if you had it installed at say a BMW dealership that is a Dinan approved dealer, that your warranty would be rock solid, but if you had it done at a tuner shop, then took it to a BMW dealer for any resulting "issues", that you might have some trouble getting it warrantied. I can hear it now, "Yes Dinan is BMW warranted, but since you didn't have it installed at a BMW dealership then......"

Thoughts?
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      01-16-2018, 08:16 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CE750Jockey View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryJI View Post
As you can see, I am all-in with Dinan and have never regretted it for a moment. This is a very balanced, refined tune for the street but it can still get your adrenaline going. The performance exhaust is very high quality. The performance suspension, combined with the retuned shocks, really plants the car at all speeds and the bumpstops are completely trouble-free. Above all, potential customers must realise that Dinan's principal client relationship is with the local dealers, not the end-user. I always advise everyone not to use a Dinan-licensed dealer but a BMW tuner shop where you can benefit from more expert technicians and from that shop's relationship with the supplier (Dinan). As for the badge, mine is still in its envelope; it's just not my style to wear it on the car.

I have absolutely no beef with Dinan's products, their customer relations, their sourcing or their prices. The last two are subject to the very deep research and testing that they do with both their tunes and their suspension products.
This is curious to me. Isn't part of the attraction to Dinan the fact that it's installed at a "Dinan-licensed" dealer? Is a "BMW tuner shop" install as equally warranted as the other? I would think that if you had it installed at say a BMW dealership that is a Dinan approved dealer, that your warranty would be rock solid, but if you had it done at a tuner shop, then took it to a BMW dealer for any resulting "issues", that you might have some trouble getting it warrantied. I can hear it now, "Yes Dinan is BMW warranted, but since you didn't have it installed at a BMW dealership then......"

Thoughts?
Dinan is not BMW warrantied. Your car is warrantied by BMW but if they refuse to cover saying Dinan caused the problem, Dinan provides a backup warranty.

The warranty is the same whether done at BMW dealer, Dinan approved installer, or DIY even assuming the work was done properly.

The benefit to having the work done at a BMW dealer is simply they have relationships with everyone involved in the event of a warranty claim. So you're not stuck in a he said / she said blame game bullshit mess between BMW and Dinan. From your perspective you don't care who pays as long as someone does, and you have the dealer as your advocate handling everyone involved and managing the whole situation on your behalf.
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      01-16-2018, 10:04 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CE750Jockey View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryJI View Post
As you can see, I am all-in with Dinan and have never regretted it for a moment. This is a very balanced, refined tune for the street but it can still get your adrenaline going. The performance exhaust is very high quality. The performance suspension, combined with the retuned shocks, really plants the car at all speeds and the bumpstops are completely trouble-free. Above all, potential customers must realise that Dinan's principal client relationship is with the local dealers, not the end-user. I always advise everyone not to use a Dinan-licensed dealer but a BMW tuner shop where you can benefit from more expert technicians and from that shop's relationship with the supplier (Dinan). As for the badge, mine is still in its envelope; it's just not my style to wear it on the car.

I have absolutely no beef with Dinan's products, their customer relations, their sourcing or their prices. The last two are subject to the very deep research and testing that they do with both their tunes and their suspension products.
This is curious to me. Isn't part of the attraction to Dinan the fact that it's installed at a "Dinan-licensed" dealer? Is a "BMW tuner shop" install as equally warranted as the other? I would think that if you had it installed at say a BMW dealership that is a Dinan approved dealer, that your warranty would be rock solid, but if you had it done at a tuner shop, then took it to a BMW dealer for any resulting "issues", that you might have some trouble getting it warrantied. I can hear it now, "Yes Dinan is BMW warranted, but since you didn't have it installed at a BMW dealership then......"

Thoughts?
I think that a lot of dealer service shops acquire Dinan licenses as an extra revenue stream without paying too much attention to training their mechanics in how to install the equipment. There was a horror story on these forums a while back about a guy whose BMW was expensively damaged when BMW techs at a dealership installed his Dinan springs upside down. High-end tuner shops, on the other hand, make it possible for the customer to know the tech and even to watch him work; this is a relationship that does not exist at dealership service departments. My tuner shop in L.A. has deep connections with Dinan and I know the master mechanic by name who does all the work on my car. For me, to bring the car to a really reputable tuner for Dinan installs vs a Dinan-licensed dealership is a complete no-brainer.
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      01-16-2018, 10:08 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryJI View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CE750Jockey View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryJI View Post
As you can see, I am all-in with Dinan and have never regretted it for a moment. This is a very balanced, refined tune for the street but it can still get your adrenaline going. The performance exhaust is very high quality. The performance suspension, combined with the retuned shocks, really plants the car at all speeds and the bumpstops are completely trouble-free. Above all, potential customers must realise that Dinan's principal client relationship is with the local dealers, not the end-user. I always advise everyone not to use a Dinan-licensed dealer but a BMW tuner shop where you can benefit from more expert technicians and from that shop's relationship with the supplier (Dinan). As for the badge, mine is still in its envelope; it's just not my style to wear it on the car.

I have absolutely no beef with Dinan's products, their customer relations, their sourcing or their prices. The last two are subject to the very deep research and testing that they do with both their tunes and their suspension products.
This is curious to me. Isn't part of the attraction to Dinan the fact that it's installed at a "Dinan-licensed" dealer? Is a "BMW tuner shop" install as equally warranted as the other? I would think that if you had it installed at say a BMW dealership that is a Dinan approved dealer, that your warranty would be rock solid, but if you had it done at a tuner shop, then took it to a BMW dealer for any resulting "issues", that you might have some trouble getting it warrantied. I can hear it now, "Yes Dinan is BMW warranted, but since you didn't have it installed at a BMW dealership then......"

Thoughts?
I think that a lot of dealer service shops acquire Dinan licenses as an extra revenue stream without paying too much attention to training their mechanics in how to install the equipment. There was a horror story on these forums a while back about a guy whose BMW was expensively damaged when BMW techs at a dealership installed his Dinan springs upside down. High-end tuner shops, on the other hand, make it possible for the customer to know the tech and even to watch him work; this is a relationship that does not exist at dealership service departments. My tuner shop in L.A. has deep connections with Dinan and I know the master mechanic by name who does all the work on my car. For me, to bring the car to a really reputable tuner for Dinan installs vs a Dinan-licensed dealership is a complete no-brainer.
All fair points. And if you can find that a reputable BMW dealer all the better.

I probably just got lucky that my local BMW dealer / Dinan installer is very well regarded by Dinan corporate and the guy has a good relationship and is well respected by them. He's also a total gear head BMW freak, so best of both worlds as to what you are describing.

When in doubt speak with your regional Dinan rep and ask them for an opinion. I am not going to name names but there's someone around me that is always lowest price but the Dinan guys can't stand him - so getting help on the back end isn't worth saving a few bucks up front.
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      01-16-2018, 06:10 PM   #41
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Look without getting into a lengthy discussion about things:

The M2 vs M235/M240 argument is stupid, and people need to stop justifying their own purchases to themselves like this.

I own an M235i, but an M2 is a much different animal. You aren't just adding a bit more power, you have the entire M3/M4 suspension, diff, brakes etc. You have the wider tract, you have a true Dual Clutch box, etc.

They are slightly different animals, at home in different environments. Neither car is better than the other in ALL situations. If you live in a town where the roads are crap, or mostly cobblestone, you really might want to consider the non M2 car, as it might rattle itself to bits on those roads.

If you don't give a damn about ride quality, and like to toss the car around like crazy, and enjoy some semi competitive track driving, the M2 is a better choice. Mod for mod, you can get the M235 or M240 to come close in performance or even outperform a stock M2, but the ceiling for the M2 is higher. You have a lot more room to play with on the M2 for wheels, suspension, brakes etc.

Having said that, the entire thing is a moot point, they are so close in price, buy the one that better suits your needs, no need to try and justify why you feel one is better than the other. They are both great cars, leave it at that.

As for suspension, and bump stops etc. I really haven't seen people complain about bump stops.. so this is an odd one? But realistically in this case its a good thing, first of all, it helps with the ride stability, and secondly, you don't really want to experience your springs binding or collapsing anyways. But at the end of the day, for a street driven car, where you just want to lower the car a bit without making the ride insufferable, why would you NOT go with these? It is great for a street setup, where you want a little stiffer, and a little lower.

As for the points system, I mean, its their company, even if I got enough points, I wouldn't really put a DINAN badge on my car, just because not something I want to start even advertising necessarily. But yes, the point system is somewhat linked to cost, what do you expect? You spend a certain amount of money you will have a DINAN car. Its usually linked to having a full package from them, like an S3 dinan car will come with a badge, and it makes sense, since you will have a pretty good range of power/suspension etc products attached to it. Your gripe here is you spent 3k and wanted the badge already? I mean if it means that much to you, just order a knock off on ebay.

As for DINAN warranties things like that etc. I've seen a lot of people kind of misunderstand this, DINAN parts can definitely void your warranty, but what dinan does is match the factory warranty in case BMW tries to deny you coverage.

Say you installed the dinan stage 3 kit, and you blow up your transmission. You go to the dealer, and they say well, we blame the dinan software for this, and deny the repair, dinan would then step in and cough up the repairs. Its not going to be as easy everywhere as it is in California for instance, since I think MOST BMW dealers are also authorized Dinan dealers here as well, which makes the experience smoother.

But there is no doubt about it, you definitely pay for the cost of that peace of mind.
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      01-17-2018, 02:18 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luftwaffe1O1 View Post
Look without getting into a lengthy discussion about things:

The M2 vs M235/M240 argument is stupid, and people need to stop justifying their own purchases to themselves like this.

I own an M235i, but an M2 is a much different animal. You aren't just adding a bit more power, you have the entire M3/M4 suspension, diff, brakes etc. You have the wider tract, you have a true Dual Clutch box, etc.

They are slightly different animals, at home in different environments. Neither car is better than the other in ALL situations. If you live in a town where the roads are crap, or mostly cobblestone, you really might want to consider the non M2 car, as it might rattle itself to bits on those roads.

If you don't give a damn about ride quality, and like to toss the car around like crazy, and enjoy some semi competitive track driving, the M2 is a better choice. Mod for mod, you can get the M235 or M240 to come close in performance or even outperform a stock M2, but the ceiling for the M2 is higher. You have a lot more room to play with on the M2 for wheels, suspension, brakes etc.

Having said that, the entire thing is a moot point, they are so close in price, buy the one that better suits your needs, no need to try and justify why you feel one is better than the other. They are both great cars, leave it at that.

As for suspension, and bump stops etc. I really haven't seen people complain about bump stops.. so this is an odd one? But realistically in this case its a good thing, first of all, it helps with the ride stability, and secondly, you don't really want to experience your springs binding or collapsing anyways. But at the end of the day, for a street driven car, where you just want to lower the car a bit without making the ride insufferable, why would you NOT go with these? It is great for a street setup, where you want a little stiffer, and a little lower.

As for the points system, I mean, its their company, even if I got enough points, I wouldn't really put a DINAN badge on my car, just because not something I want to start even advertising necessarily. But yes, the point system is somewhat linked to cost, what do you expect? You spend a certain amount of money you will have a DINAN car. Its usually linked to having a full package from them, like an S3 dinan car will come with a badge, and it makes sense, since you will have a pretty good range of power/suspension etc products attached to it. Your gripe here is you spent 3k and wanted the badge already? I mean if it means that much to you, just order a knock off on ebay.

As for DINAN warranties things like that etc. I've seen a lot of people kind of misunderstand this, DINAN parts can definitely void your warranty, but what dinan does is match the factory warranty in case BMW tries to deny you coverage.

Say you installed the dinan stage 3 kit, and you blow up your transmission. You go to the dealer, and they say well, we blame the dinan software for this, and deny the repair, dinan would then step in and cough up the repairs. Its not going to be as easy everywhere as it is in California for instance, since I think MOST BMW dealers are also authorized Dinan dealers here as well, which makes the experience smoother.

But there is no doubt about it, you definitely pay for the cost of that peace of mind.
Wonderful input thank you!

GO SPEED RACER:

So... The M240 with the DINAN INTAKE/EXHAUST/COMPUTER-TUNE is pushing out 425HP with Torque numbers in the 480s which are crazy high numbers and no street car truthfully could have much more power than that which could be used without risking jail time and loosing your license and then you’re walking making car noises because thats all you can drive anymore, your legs.

DINAN STUFF:

I have to say I love the sound the DINAN Exhaust makes. I live the extra HP it gives. I love the response the car has with that balls to wall torque it pushes out. The badge? Meh.. I could care less about the badge, I was just tying to point out the silliness of the point system and that it means money spent not necessarily performance gained. I have driven M3s and M4s and personally I think they are too physically big (I call them daddy cars on lots of steroids) I love the one and two series cars because it’s smaller and to me sportier/racier and maneuverable. Not a speed boat on wheels. That’s just me, they seem to big to me to be a “Sports car.” The one and two’s to me are pushing it but still passable.

M2 VS M240 discussion:

M2 MSRP - $53,500
M240 MSRP $45,300

That’s $10,200. So my only point is if you buy an M240 and invest $6,000 (Computer, intake, exhaust, suspension- springs, cambers, bump-stops,) with OZHLT 19” rims) you save save $5K and the car is faster and will handle arguably equally as well. Yes the M2 has a higher ceiling but then that’s according to DINAN $8,000 above and beyond the already almost $10,500 more you have spent. So yes you’ll have reached that higher ceiling at almost $20,000 more invested at that point. Where as M240 + DINAN means a better performing car than the stock M2 at an over $5,000 savings. That’s all I was saying. Not really really comparing all the exponential possibilities and capabilities. I don’t care for automatic vehicles i learned to drive in Europe and think automatics are lame, so mine is a manual 6 speed so that’s a non issue in comparing them. Put 19”OZHLT RIMS on or just buy the M2 rims and sell the M240s, but the OZs are better rims and can be actually be cheaper. Put the 6K in with the rims and it’s more powerful and super well handling car for less money. But again, if you’re trying to use this on the street, hopefully you like Bologna sandwiches and kool-aid because that’s what you’ll eat for a few days in lock-up and you’ll be walking after that. A DINAN M240 is already more than you can use on the street so unless you’re go Ng to spend some time and money on the track, the M2 just to me isn’t worth it. That goes I think to your basic point.. for me, in reality, in DC, the M240 DINAN is the better buy dollar for dollar, HP to HP and in speaking with DINAN they also agree. I mean seriously who can drive like this in the street?

THE ROADS:

Now with all that said the roads in the greater washingron DC metropolitan area are terrible. Potholes, chopped up roads, grooves in the roads, speed bumps that could double for skateboarding ramps, salt and sand from rough winters and so on. The roads around here are things that nightmares are made of. The M240 is already so low that it’s somewhat problematic in nature and to lower it with lowering springs would only further exacerbate the problem. Camber plates, bump-stops? Maybe. Lowering the car around here? I’m not so sure.

Please don’t get me wrong, I like (maybe even love) the DINAN stuff a lot, I just wish they cared a little more about the customer. Seem a bit arrogant in nature those guys. We are there for them not the reverse. I agree, the peace of mind is worth it. Fortunately the local DINAN dealer / installer is across the street from BMW and does it for local BMW dealerships, they have a cooperative relationship. They are well known and respected at DINAN and at BMW.

FEEL THE NEED FOR SPEED?

In the end I’m a sport-biker at heart and if anyone has the true need for speed? How about my YamaYZF? The R1 has a 0-60 of 2.6 seconds. What’s going to beat that? Any M car? The Ferrari 488, McLaren or a Lamborghini can’t beat that. And the R1 is slow compared to some other bikes like the GSXR or the Hayabusa. Now those things are pure energy.

Anyways, thank you again, I greatly do appreciate your input it was very helpful. This is all still an education for me and a work In Progress. Thank you!

Last edited by Kenpo Karate; 01-17-2018 at 02:28 PM..
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      01-17-2018, 02:33 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Keep in mind that if you drive hard all the time and/or use the car at the track often, the wider tires and/or lowering springs will only go so far. You definitely need more camber if this car will see a lot of track time. Not only for wear, but also the handling/steering benefits. If my M235 saw a lot of track time, it would have high end coilovers and camber plates for sure.
I’m a street guy, doubt I’ll do track other then maybe once a year for fun. Government spent lots of money teaching me to drive so it’s fun to let it loose, I do like it, it is super fun, but I prefer taking my sport bike on the track. It’s a little more savage feeling. Thank you so much. Maybe I’ll eventually get cambers or bump stops if it would help extend the life of my tires.. not sure.
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      01-17-2018, 02:52 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Kenpo Karate View Post
GO SPEED RACER:

The M240 with the DINAN INTAKE/EXHAUST/COMPUTER-TUNE is pushing out 425HP with Torque numbers in the 480s which are crazy high numbers and no street car truthfully could have much more power than that which could be used without risking jail time and loosing your license and then you’re walking making car noises because thats all you can drive anymore, your legs.

DINAN STUFF:

I have to say I love the sound the DINAN Exhaust makes. I live the extra HP it gives. I love the response the car has with that balls to wall torque it pushes out. The badge? Meh.. I could care less about the badge, I was just tying to point out the silliness of the point system and that it means money spent not necessarily performance gained. I have driven M3s and M4s and personally I think they are too physically big (I call them daddy cars on lots of steroids) I love the one and two series cars because it’s smaller and to me sportier/racier and maneuverable. Not a speed boat on wheels. That’s just me, they seem to big to me to be a “Sports car.” The one and two’s to me are pushing it but still passable.

M2 VS M240 discussion:

M2 MSRP - $53,500
M240 MSRP $45,300

That’s $10,200. So my only point is if you buy an M240 and invest $6,000 (Computer, intake, exhaust, suspension- springs, cambers, bump-stops,) with OZHLT 19” rims) you save save $5K and the car is faster and will handle arguably equally as well. Yes the M2 has a higher ceiling but then that’s according to DINAN $8,000 above and beyond the already almost $10,500 more you have spent. So yes you’ll have reached that higher ceiling at almost $20,000 more invested at that point. Where as M240 + DINAN means a better performing car than the stock M2 at an over $5,000 savings. That’s all I was saying. Not really really comparing all the exponential possibilities and capabilities. I don’t care for automatic vehicles i learned to drive in Europe and think automatics are lame, so mine is a manual 6 speed so that’s a non issue in comparing them. Put 19”OZHLT RIMS on or just buy the M2 rims and sell the M240s, but the OZs are better rims and can be actually be cheaper. Put the 6K in with he rims and it’s more powerful and super well handling car for less money. But again, if you’re trying to use this on the street, hopefully you like Bologna sandwiches and kool-aid because that’s what you’ll eat for a few days in lock-up and you’ll be walking after that. A DINAN M240
Is already more than you can use on the street so unless you’re go Ng to spend some time and money on the track, the M2 just to me isn’t worth it. That goes I think to your basic point.. for me, in reality, in DC, the M240 DINAN is the better buy dollar for dollar, HP to HP and in speaking with DINAN they also agree.

THE ROADS:

Now with all that said the roads in the greater washingron DC metropolitan area are terrible. Potholes, chopped up roads, grooves in the roads, speed bumps that could double for skateboarding ramps, salt and sand from rough winters and so on. The roads around here are things that nightmares are made of. The M240 is already so low that it’s somewhat problematic in nature and to lower it with lowering springs would only further exacerbate the problem. Camber plates, bump-stops? Maybe. Lowering the car around here? I’m not so sure.

Please don’t get me wrong, I like the DINAN stuff a lot, I just wish they cared a little more about the customer. The peace of mind is worth it. Fortunately the local DINAN dealer / installer is across the street from BMW and does it for local BMW dealerships, they have a cooperative relationship.

In the end I’m a sport-biker at heart and if anyone has the true need for speed? How about my YamaYZF? The R1 has a 0-60 of 2.6 seconds. What’s going to beat that? Any M car? The Ferrari 488, McLaren or a Lamborghini can’t beat that. And the R1 is slow compared to some other bikes like the GSXR of the Hayabusa.

Anyways, thank you again, I greatly do appreciate your input it was very helpful. This is all still an education for me and a work In Progress. Thank you!

You are taking the power numbers at face value, and that's just not quite correct. A B58 equipped M240i is a bit more tune friendly than the N55, but that is to say, an FBO tuned M2 will still be pushing in similar territory numbers wise.

But you are talking base price M235i/M240i. The M2 already comes with a bunch of stuff equipped as standard.

You can price out a 240 to high 50s easily. If you get a stripper sure, but even with all of that, you have one big limiting factor you aren't taking into account, and that is the subframes and suspension on the M2 are quite different. You have much more room to play with on it vs the F22. You have better brakes, wider rubber, more room to stuff larger wheels, and suspension is all better from the getgo.

Trying to match the M2s overall feel and performance is not going to be as cheap as you suggest. Now if you want to look at lap times, even on short tracks, the 235 is a decent amount behind the M2 in quite a few tracks. We don't have a specific M235 ring time, but we have an M135 for comparison, and its more or less close, we can say +/- 4 seconds, still puts the Non M at a significantly slower pace around the ring for instance.

But all of this is magazine bench racing. At the end of the day its down to a personal decision, but any claims that the M235 or M240 are better cars because you can dump a few thousand and for the same price have a faster car is kind of moot. If you want the same equipment in both cars, and a Limited Slip, they are much closer in price. The MSRP on my car was around 52k for instance, that's well within striking distance of the M2, unfortunately for me, there was no M2 when I got my car, but I am happy enough with the 235 that I am not exactly longing for the M2. But if I was back in 2014 looking at a car to get, M2 1000%.

Each car is different and unique in its own way. The M2 is much more raw, and it can be a pain to live with if the roads in your neck of the woods are unforgiving, but around the track it is a much more fun car to drive. Stock for stock, I drove M240s around the BMW performance center in Thermal, and while a capable car, it is nowhere near as raw as an M2 or m4. The suspension was softer and more bouncy, the car gave out traction much earlier, and was overall less composed.

I don't want to make it seem like the 235/240 are crap, it is still a great performer and a lot of fun to toss around, but just for comparison sake, the M4/M2 feel way more stable and grippy.

But that is precisely the point here, sure you can dump 6k and be in a similar price range, but at the end of the day, the M2 is the complete package already... and then some.

The very fact that you are using it as a benchmark for your mods is telling to begin with. Also at the end of the day, the M2 will typically turn more heads as well.
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