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      09-01-2017, 01:49 PM   #1
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Do you regret getting the 6MT

I did some forum searching could not seem to find a thread focused on this specific topic. I apologize if I missed it. Perhaps it may help others when wavering on a 6MT or going with the more readily available and common 8AT.

I've owned my M235 6MT for 19 months now. I have test driven a 8AT M235 and it was stellar, but I stuck to my guns and ordered the 6MT. Here are my opinions, good and bad. I'm in the process (fingers are crossed) of acquiring an M2 and that too will be a 6MT.

Short answer: All things considered below, I do not regret my decision.


1) The 6MT feels quite connected, especially after adding the MP shift knob which solidifies shift feel and reduces the throw a bit. Plus it looks great. The shifter makes a pleasant "snick" when rowing the gears. It's 80% of the feel of a Honda S2000 which I think has one of the best feeling shifters around.

2) The 6MT really comes into it's own when driven in anger. It becomes quite smooth while also feeling very robust.

3) Heal toe and rev matching downshifts during hard driving is really easy.

4) The clutch pedal throw is overly long which is annoying. I have made my own thin clutch stop and have also tried varying thicknesses of stops, but it still doesn't remedy how high the clutch pedal stops at the end of it's travel. It stops about 1" above the brake pedal. It really should be even with all the pedals. The Ultimate Clutch Pedal can remedy this.

5) The clutch take-up point is short and feels like it moves a bit. The clutch catches in the middle of the pedal travel. I find that annoying. It means you need to be quite in tune when starting out in 1st and the 1-2 shift or else you'll come off looking like a rookie with jerkiness. Sometimes even with your best efforts, you'll end up looking like a rookie. I blame BMW's self adjusting clutch and heavy dual mass flywheel.

6) You can sometimes feel the DME slightly upping the throttle/rpms to try and assist you when leaving in 1st. It's like it thinks you're going to stall so it changes the throttle linearity. I find it annoying as it can sometimes make for a jerky start. I've been driving manuals since 1989. I don't need help.

7) The 6MT is terribly easy to modulate the clutch and throttle on a 1st gear, dead stop hard launch.

8) The gearing is a bit too long. 2nd winds out to the lower 70s and 3rd into the 105mph range. Gearing needs to be about 5% to 10% shorter and it would make the 6MT feel more lively and the car would probably be a bit quicker in the 1/4 mile.

9) Skip shifting and slow/lazy shifting are nice options to have considering the low rpm torque available. With an auto, you don't have this option. Shifts are always fast and you still have to go through all the gears.

10) You can hear the dual mass flywheel chattering a bit in 1st when you're in an enclosed area like a parking garage.

11) You feel more driveline slack because your shifts are slower than an auto.

12) It's damn hard to spin the tires on a 1-2 shift on most surfaces in warmer temps. When the tires don't spin, the shift can be rather abrupt on the 1-2.

13) A hard, full throttle 2-3 shift is damn easy to rip.

14) There's more turbo lag with the 6MT.

15) In the Sport+ and DSC Off, BMW has somehow managed to make it so most of the boost is held on high rpm, hard shifts. I'm not sure how they've accomplished this, but it's impressive. It can make for eerily smooth shifts on the 2-3 and 3-4.

16) There have been 6MTs replaced with syncro issues. It seems to be the most common issue that effects the gearbox. The 1-2 syncro seems to be the most common failure. Otherwise, the gearbox is quite stout. In the M235, it's the same gearbox as the M2/3/4 minus some beefed up syncros. It's my understanding the M240 6MT uses the M2/3/4 gearbox.

17) There's lots more exhaust burble on coasting since the car is in gear more often.

18) You can leave the car in 1st while crawling in traffic and the car won't stall unless you're going up a steep grade or slam the brakes.

19) The "Oh damn! It's a 6MT!" reactions.

Last edited by XutvJet; 09-01-2017 at 04:26 PM..
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      09-01-2017, 01:56 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
All things considered below, I do not regret my decision.
Nor I, not for a moment!
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      09-01-2017, 02:22 PM   #3
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No regrets.
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      09-01-2017, 02:43 PM   #4
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Yawn.
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      09-01-2017, 03:06 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3.0L View Post
Yawn.
But yet, you're here and taking the time/energy to respond, as an automatic owner....
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      09-01-2017, 03:13 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sportstick View Post
But yet, you're here and taking the time/energy to respond, as an automatic owner....
I hope he isn't driving with one hand and typing with the other :-)
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      09-01-2017, 03:27 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet
8) The gearing is a bit too long. 2nd winds out to the lower 70s and 3rd into the 105mph range. Gearing needs to be about 5% to 10% shorter and it would make the 6MT feel more lively and the car would probably be a bit quicker in the 1/4 mile.
Do you really think shorter gearing would help the quarter mile? Most trap times people post seem to be around 108/109 mph, I would think shorter gears would make it necessary to add a 3-4 shift and might slow you down more.

Great summary, your write-up makes me even more confident that I made the right decision when I spec'd the 6MT for my 2018 M240i....only 4-5 more weeks until it arrives
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      09-01-2017, 03:41 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAMOETO View Post
I hope he isn't driving with one hand and typing with the other :-)
Could be. "Yawn" would be consistent with an automatic.
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      09-01-2017, 03:54 PM   #9
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Going from forward to reverse in the 6-spd manual is easier.
If you spin and find yourself going backwards or reverse 180's the clutch is easier to disconnect the driveline.
Women can can drive manual w/4"heels and your worried about what?

Last edited by overcoil; 12-16-2017 at 10:51 AM..
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      09-01-2017, 04:03 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAMOETO View Post
I hope he isn't driving with one hand and typing with the other :-)
Actually, I was driving with one hand and typing with the other, while I was beating a manual during a 1/4 mile race.

[in jest, in jest]
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      09-01-2017, 04:23 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jt8307 View Post
Do you really think shorter gearing would help the quarter mile? Most trap times people post seem to be around 108/109 mph, I would think shorter gears would make it necessary to add a 3-4 shift and might slow you down more.
I think so. The M235 and M240 come with 3.08 gears. The M2 comes with a 3.46 gear, BUT it has 1" taller tires so some of it's gearing advantage is reduced. It's basically like a 3.2X gear in the M2 when compared to the M235 on OEM tires and the 3.08 gear. The M2 6MT runs 12.7-12.8@111-112mph with just an extra 20-25whp and 30-35wtq. I think the gearing is helping a bit because that small increase in power the M2 has can't all account for why it's 1/2 second quicker and 3-4mph faster in the 1/4 mile than the M235. The cars weigh essentially the same.

The 3/4 series N55/B58 cars come with 3.23s. SO, if the differential pumpkin cases are the same between M235/M240 and 3/4 series, that would mean you could buy the M Performance LSD for the 3/4 series and swap it into your M235/240 and gain some gearing plus the LSD for ~$2,000. I've been researching this and still haven't found the answer. My guess is they're the same differentials, but I want a solid answer before proceeding.

The other option is to go with a differential vendor and they'll install a 3.23 or 3.46 with your choice of an LSD, but it's pricier (~$3,000). There are a couple M235 6MT running 3.46 gears and they claim it's the single biggest improvement in driving feel and acceleration and track use. I worry a 3.46 might be a little too deep for an M235 on OEM height tires for a daily driven M235.
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      09-01-2017, 04:46 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
I think so. The M235 and M240 come with 3.08 gears. The M2 comes with a 3.46 gear, BUT it has 1" taller tires so some of it's gearing advantage is reduced. It's basically like a 3.2X gear in the M2 when compared to the M235 on OEM tires and the 3.08 gear. The M2 6MT runs 12.7-12.8@111-112mph with just an extra 20-25whp and 30-35wtq. I think the gearing is helping a bit because that small increase in power the M2 has can't all account for why it's 1/2 second quicker and 3-4mph faster in the 1/4 mile than the M235. The cars weigh essentially the same.

The 3/4 series N55/B58 cars come with 3.23s. SO, if the differential pumpkin cases are the same between M235/M240 and 3/4 series, that would mean you could buy the M Performance LSD for the 3/4 series and swap it into your M235/240 and gain some gearing plus the LSD for ~$2,000. I've been researching this and still haven't found the answer. My guess is they're the same differentials, but I want a solid answer before proceeding.

The other option is to go with a differential vendor and they'll install a 3.23 or 3.46 with your choice of an LSD, but it's pricier (~$3,000). There are a couple M235 6MT running 3.46 gears and they claim it's the single biggest improvement in driving feel and acceleration and track use. I worry a 3.46 might be a little too deep for an M235 on OEM height tires for a daily driven M235.
^^^ Man, does this bring back some memories from the so-called muscle car days. I knew several guys who were almost constantly seeking a little more out of their cars. Two of them ended up with differential ratios somewhere in the low 4's. 4.11 rings a bell. Of course, the cars were really quick in the 0-60 and 1/4 mile realm, but truly sucked on the highway. I recall going on a skiing trip in one fellow's 1969 Pontiac GTO and the engine was wound up pretty tight at 65 MPH. I mean, it was OK and the car probably had another 35 to 45 MPH available, but that engine was spinning pretty fast. Really bad MPG, too.

Maybe better to have 2 cars - one for DD and one for racing.
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      09-01-2017, 05:24 PM   #13
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Wow didnt know there could be this much details when compared from 6mt to auto. I love my stick.
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      09-01-2017, 05:44 PM   #14
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I regret not getting the 6MT. The ZF8 is a phenomenal transmission, but I've been a stick guy my whole life. Even in DC rush hour traffic, I've never minded having a manual shift. Now I'm bored while driving to a certain extent. I wanted the xdrive for my daily driver, so compromises were made. Wish it didn't have to be one or the other with BMW.
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      09-01-2017, 06:11 PM   #15
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No regrets. Let me add a few more positives:

1) You get a lot fewer of your friends asking if they can drive it. Only about half of my friends drive stick. Only half of those can do so with confidence.

2) Built-in theft deterrent.

3) Letting your kids shift from the passenger seat (on non-crowded roads). You control the clutch, gas, and steering - they get their first feel of a manual transmission.

The only time it sucks is when my wife's car needs repairs. She doesn't drive manual, so if the repairs are going to take some time, I have to rent a car for her to drive. This is a very small price to pay.

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      09-01-2017, 06:14 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sportstick View Post
Could be. "Yawn" would be consistent with an automatic.
Until of course, one goes flying by you as you try to out shift it...
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      09-01-2017, 06:17 PM   #17
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I test-drove an M2 with the MT and was disappointed. I found the throw too long but most importantly the auto-blip is intrusive and unnecessary for those of us who can manage high-RPM downshifts manually and you cannot disable it without switching off every traction-control system on the car, i.e. basically putting it in track mode. I found this unacceptable and will likely go for the DCT in the M2 because of it.
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      09-01-2017, 06:19 PM   #18
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I love my auto, but then I am 73 yo, owned tons of manuals and now I just want to let the car do the work. Kudos to lovers of MT's, been there done that.
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      09-01-2017, 06:20 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvmaddog View Post
Until of course, one goes flying by you as you try to out shift it...
I think you hit on the difference. For some, the value is in the driving experience inside the car. Others are concerned with who else might be faster...and there's always someone faster, and I sincerely do not care, as long as I am having the most enjoyment actually driving the car that I can have.
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      09-01-2017, 07:27 PM   #20
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Pedals are pretty close together for my wide feet. That doesn't add up to a regret by any means. Likewise the extra fuel consumed.
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      09-01-2017, 07:34 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sportstick View Post
I think you hit on the difference. For some, the value is in the driving experience inside the car. Others are concerned with who else might be faster...and there's always someone faster, and I sincerely do not care, as long as I am having the most enjoyment actually driving the car that I can have.
I agree, from a strictly fun standpoint there is no substitute.

There are only a couple of autos I would even consider, this 8 speed is just hard to beat, and I absolutely love the 6 speed in the 2 series.
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      09-01-2017, 07:40 PM   #22
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I loved the write up.. A good, in depth realization of what I was on the fence about for months when making up my mind between 6MT/8AT.. I really wanted the manual..

Sportstick said it best above, "there's always someone faster, and I sincerely do not care, as long as I am having the most enjoyment actually driving the car that I can have."

If my back wasn't so messed up, I would have done it in a heartbeat..

That being said, the bulletproof ZF8 is the best possible alternative to a preferred manual setup.. (Actually, the ONLY other alternative..)

But it was interesting to see what I wanted to experience for myself.
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