[bman6074]

Whats funny now that I finally got my car. I was looking through the idrive settings and wanted to see how the check level of oil worked. I had been driving for at least 10 min now. I clicked check oil level. It counted up to about 95% then said level can't be calculated need to warm/drive more (something to that effect. don't remember exact verbiage). But just a thought you can use that to gauge when the car is ready to be pushed or oil is warmed up to operating temp.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by mjposner

So I guess you fought the exclusion of the gas stock and the front engine crank too!

C'mon, you can do better than that?

The crank was replaced by better technology, a starter. What has the temp gauge been replaced with? Zilch. It's a net loss for those of us that care about our cars.

[F30form]

Originally Posted by nachob

C'mon, you can do better than that?

The crank was replaced by better technology, a starter. What has the temp gauge been replaced with? Zilch. It's a net loss for those of us that care about our cars.

So hilariously wrong. A temp gauge has been replaced by numerous sensors that working in conjunction with the DME to: retard/advance timing, limit revs, constantly monitor individual cylinder temperatures, automatically turn on fans, etc. The list goes on. Instead of requiring the driver to look at a gauge that may or may not be calibrated correctly, now the car does it for you. So stop, please.

[Ritz42]

Originally Posted by F30form

So hilariously wrong. A temp gauge has been replaced by numerous sensors that working in conjunction with the DME to: retard/advance timing, limit revs, constantly monitor individual cylinder temperatures, automatically turn on fans, etc. The list goes on. Instead of requiring the driver to look at a gauge that may or may not be calibrated correctly, now the car does it for you. So stop, please.

This, I don't know how else to put it. The temp gauge in your old 1m was damped, it was not a truely accurate oil temp gauge. If it was it would CONSTANTLY be moving.

And we have access to "hidden menu" with a digital temp read out, which displays not only Oil, but coolant temp as well, which is perfectly passable for a track day situation. And if you want an all the time gauge? There is nothing stopping you from adding a Defi or like oil temp or oil pressure gauge that will provide truely accurate information.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by Ritz42

This, I don't know how else to put it. The temp gauge in your old 1m was damped, it was not a truely accurate oil temp gauge. If it was it would CONSTANTLY be moving.

And we have access to "hidden menu" with a digital temp read out, which displays not only Oil, but coolant temp as well, which is perfectly passable for a track day situation. And if you want an all the time gauge? There is nothing stopping you from adding a Defi or like oil temp or oil pressure gauge that will provide truely accurate information.

Everything is dampened in cars. Tachs are dampened, speedos, power steering, it's part of the human interface. In the eighties they tried using light bar tachs that jumped up and down and they found that it was a not a good way for humans to read. That is why the analog tach is still the way to go. So a damped temp gauge is fine, it still is close enough to give you engine feedback.

The real issues are these:

1. There is no reason a sports type car like the M235i to get rid of it.
2. It furthers the decline, lack of car-guyness of BMW cars and continues the softening of the brand.
3. BMW cooling systems are awful long term with plastic radiators, expansion tanks, thermostat housings, hose connections and electric water pumps that fail at high mileage. Radiators and expansion tanks burst and electric pumps fail and what little warning you might get from temp gauge is gone.
4. Why should I buy a 50K car with 16 M badges but no temp gauge? Then have to pay extra with some silly bluetooth option. How about they let you choose between logo and temp gauge? The fuel-and-go crowd can pick the logo and the rest of us can opt for the temp gauge.

Obviously, they invested money in adding badges and logo on the cluster and took away the gauge. That shows a sickening shift in priorities from functional to fluff and that is the worse part of it.

I can't believe anyone even defends this. I'm shocked, shocked how everyone is OK adding fluff in place of something useful.

[F30form]

Dude, get over yourself. They didn't "add fluff" over everything else. BMW put a ton of R&D into the chassis, equipped it with PSS from the factory, gave it a factory tune, and made it cheap. It is hands down the most performance you can get for the money which you would know if you drove the damn thing. In the end, just don't buy the effing car. Spend 20k more to get a Porsche so you can have a temp gauge.

Oh, and BTW, your argument about the cooling misses one HUGE factor. Before you can react to a damped gauge, the car is way ahead of you. As soon as that temp starts to rise the car will go into limp mode so you CANT HURT THE MOTOR. Isn't that what this is all about? Dunno about you, but if I'm going 130 I'm not looking at my temp gauge to make sure it is staying within a good range.

[ska///235i]

Enough with this...get yourself some ricer gauages and call it a day

[nachob]

Here are the CR Reliability Ratings for 1, 3, and 5 series. Notice after about 6 years cooling systems fail. They are notorious. Plastic tanks fail as do the water pumps. They didn't change a thing on this generation and dropped the gauge!

I don't want a ricer pack! If they had switched the cooling system to an aluminum, more reliable system then dropped the gauge, maybe your arguments for dropping real for fluff might hold some water, but it is the same plastic crap. I have been willing to pay for the extra maintenance and uncertainty because I enjoy the dynamics for rear drive and MT but they are just making things worse.

[Rupes]

Originally Posted by nachob

I can't believe anyone even defends this. I'm shocked, shocked how everyone is OK adding fluff in place of something useful.

I'm with you. This is really dumb that anyone could argue AGAINST an oil temp gauge. Maybe you're fine without one, but others like to have an idea of when the car is properly warmed up to begin driving in a spirited fashion.

Ditto for the dip stick. In no way is anyone's life easier without one, but I'm sure someone here could find a reason to justify it.

The people justifying this could probably also justify not needed a tachometer. I mean who needs one when you can just hear the engine? Plus it stops you from over revving with a limiter.

[Ritz42]

Originally Posted by nachob

Everything is dampened in cars. Tachs are dampened, speedos, power steering, it's part of the human interface. In the eighties they tried using light bar tachs that jumped up and down and they found that it was a not a good way for humans to read. That is why the analog tach is still the way to go. So a damped temp gauge is fine, it still is close enough to give you engine feedback.

The real issues are these:

1. There is no reason a sports type car like the M235i to get rid of it.
2. It furthers the decline, lack of car-guyness of BMW cars and continues the softening of the brand.
3. BMW cooling systems are awful long term with plastic radiators, expansion tanks, thermostat housings, hose connections and electric water pumps that fail at high mileage. Radiators and expansion tanks burst and electric pumps fail and what little warning you might get from temp gauge is gone.
4. Why should I buy a 50K car with 16 M badges but no temp gauge? Then have to pay extra with some silly bluetooth option. How about they let you choose between logo and temp gauge? The fuel-and-go crowd can pick the logo and the rest of us can opt for the temp gauge.

Obviously, they invested money in adding badges and logo on the cluster and took away the gauge. That shows a sickening shift in priorities from functional to fluff and that is the worse part of it.

I can't believe anyone even defends this. I'm shocked, shocked how everyone is OK adding fluff in place of something useful.

I must have missed the coolant temp gauge in my brother's 1m and my good friends 135i, because I've never seen one in e82. If I recall 128's didn't have any temp gauge of any sort at all. So Item 3 in your little list is not exactly relevant.

I've driven several turbocharged sports cars that don't have oil temp gauges, or even Oil coolers. I've never had one of them overheat. Maybe that's why I'm not so concerned about the lack of the gauge in my 235. I never once sat in my STi and thought, gee this isn't a car guy type of car because it didn't have an oil temp gauge, and I certainly don't think that of my 235.

And we get it, the M logo, and specifically the number of them bothers you. I'm not one to badge whore, so I could care less. And as to the future, I will say this again, with BMW's move to mandatory Idrive in all cars I wouldn't be surprised to see, particularly in the proper M cars, a suite of auxilory gauges in a "sports" display mode, replacing the need for in cluster gauges and allowing the driver even more information than what is currently available. But of course, you're anti screens too.

[Ritz42]

Originally Posted by nachob

Here are the CR Reliability Ratings for 1, 3, and 5 series. Notice after about 6 years cooling systems fail. They are notorious. Plastic tanks fail as do the water pumps. They didn't change a thing on this generation and dropped the gauge!

I don't want a ricer pack! If they had switched the cooling system to an aluminum, more reliable system then dropped the gauge, maybe your arguments for dropping real for fluff might hold some water, but it is the same plastic crap. I have been willing to pay for the extra maintenance and uncertainty because I enjoy the dynamics for rear drive and MT but they are just making things worse.

Again, please show us the coolant temp gauge found in your old e82. I've never seen it.

Originally Posted by Rupes

I'm with you. This is really dumb that anyone could argue AGAINST an oil temp gauge. Maybe you're fine without one, but others like to have an idea of when the car is properly warmed up to begin driving in a spirited fashion.

Ditto for the dip stick. In no way is anyone's life easier without one, but I'm sure someone here could find a reason to justify it.

The people justifying this could probably also justify not needed a tachometer. I mean who needs one when you can just hear the engine? Plus it stops you from over revving with a limiter.

I'm with you on the whole dipstick item. It's stupid, it's incredibly slower in the f chassis cars than it was in the e chassis cars and it's far less informative than a dipstick. The only thing I can say is that I have a 2013 mini cooper s, it comes with a dipstick, but the dipstick is completely unreadable. BMW in recent years has definitely forgotten how to make a functional dipstick.

[3.0L]

This thread brings something to mind:

When I bought my new Mazda RX-7 in 1985, the salesman's parting words were, "This is a sports car and meant to be driven hard, so go enjoy it."

When I bought my new RX-8 in 2004, the salesman said essentially the same thing.

Neither car ever gave a hint of overheating, even when pushed hard. I'd surprised if BMW couldn't do that good with their cars.

Not worried (but I am going to try holding down the trip odometer reset button during the next start up to see what comes up on the display)

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by Ritz42

Again, please show us the coolant temp gauge found in your old e82. I've never seen it.

I had one on mine (2011 135i) as well. Maybe you should look in to some glasses Maybe it was only on the 135i? Did you have a 128i? I specifically remember mine because my brother-in-law had a 3-series, and he remarked about the lack of a real-time fuel economy gauge like the one he had in his car. My reply was that I'd prefer the oil temp gauge. No way that conversation would have happened if it wasn't there.

[Ritz42]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

I had one on mine (2011 135i) as well. Maybe you should look in to some glasses Maybe it was only on the 135i? Did you have a 128i? I specifically remember mine because my brother-in-law had a 3-series, and he remarked about the lack of a real-time fuel economy gauge like the one he had in his car. My reply was that I'd prefer the oil temp gauge. No way that conversation would have happened if it wasn't there.

You're sure your 135i had both a coolant (water temp) gauge and an Oil temp gauge? Like I said, my families 1m does not have a coolant gauge, only an oil temp gauge. Our old 128 had no temp gauges.

[bradleyland]

Found a photo: http://www.caranddriver.com/photos-0...n-photo-193769

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by Ritz42

You're sure your 135i had both a coolant (water temp) gauge and an Oil temp gauge? Like I said, my families 1m does not have a coolant gauge, only an oil temp gauge. Our old 128 had no temp gauges.

Geeze, sorry. I totally missed the "coolant" part. No, it did not have a coolant temp gauge.

Brb while I get some glasses

[Ritz42]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

Geeze, sorry. I totally missed the "coolant" part. No, it did not have a coolant temp gauge.

Brb while I get some glasses

Lol, it happens. Make sure you get a nice pair!

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by nachob

Everything is dampened in cars. Tachs are dampened, speedos, power steering, it's part of the human interface. In the eighties they tried using light bar tachs that jumped up and down and they found that it was a not a good way for humans to read. That is why the analog tach is still the way to go. So a damped temp gauge is fine, it still is close enough to give you engine feedback.

The real issues are these:

1. There is no reason a sports type car like the M235i to get rid of it.
2. It furthers the decline, lack of car-guyness of BMW cars and continues the softening of the brand.
3. BMW cooling systems are awful long term with plastic radiators, expansion tanks, thermostat housings, hose connections and electric water pumps that fail at high mileage. Radiators and expansion tanks burst and electric pumps fail and what little warning you might get from temp gauge is gone.
4. Why should I buy a 50K car with 16 M badges but no temp gauge? Then have to pay extra with some silly bluetooth option. How about they let you choose between logo and temp gauge? The fuel-and-go crowd can pick the logo and the rest of us can opt for the temp gauge.

Obviously, they invested money in adding badges and logo on the cluster and took away the gauge. That shows a sickening shift in priorities from functional to fluff and that is the worse part of it.

I can't believe anyone even defends this. I'm shocked, shocked how everyone is OK adding fluff in place of something useful.

Isn't the area where the M235i logo is displayed on the dash basically an LCD display? Why the hell couldn't they let you configure that to be a temp gauge? Oil or coolant... hell, why not both!? Like Ritz42 suggested, how about some more relevant "sports" displays. Seeing torque and HP output is fun for about 15 seconds, then you realize how absolutely useless it is. The temp information is obviously available to the car's systems, so why not make it available on the sports displays?

[ManCityFan]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

Isn't the area where the M235i logo is displayed on the dash basically an LCD display? Why the hell couldn't they let you configure that to be a temp gauge? Oil or coolant... hell, why not both!? Like Ritz42 suggested, how about some more relevant "sports" displays. Seeing torque and HP output is fun for about 15 seconds, then you realize how absolutely useless it is. The temp information is obviously available to the car's systems, so why not make it available on the sports displays?

I believe you can do that already...as long as you have the tech pkg.

[pikcachu]

no you can't... only way to see temp is with the hidden menu

[ManCityFan]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

no you can't... only way to see temp is with the hidden menu

ah...my mistake.

[nachob]

Here is the 1M instrument cluster. All the 1 series also had temp gauge. Current 3 series gets it too.