THE LARGEST BMW 2-SERIES FORUM ON THE PLANET
2Addicts
2Addicts
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
2Addicts | BMW 2-Series forum BMW 2 Series (F22) Forum BMW 2 Series Coupe and Cabriolet (F22/F23) General Forum BMW M235i is Faster On Track Than 1M Coupe (Our 2 Series Interview From Detroit)

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-16-2014, 10:44 AM   #89
M.barnes
Captain
41
Rep
598
Posts

Drives: 123d
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Rugby, uk

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by w3rkn View Post
LOL...

Secondly, nobody is going to order a $48k M235i, if there wasn't a LSD option. Funny thing is, an LSD still isn't an option, because they don't have enough (& the Germans get first crack at them, so be prepared to wait with your $1,500).
I have ordered one without any intention of fitting an LSD. The E diff will be fine for me.
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2014, 10:48 AM   #90
dmboone25
Lieutenant General
dmboone25's Avatar
4971
Rep
10,200
Posts

Drives: 2024 Golf R / 2022 718 Spyder
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2007 E92 328i  [10.00]
2007 328i  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by M.barnes View Post
I have ordered one without any intention of fitting an LSD. The E diff will be fine for me.
I would have to agree--I don't think my skills as a driver are good enough to exploit it, and I also don't track my cars.

With that being said, my dad could always tell the difference in the actions of the LSD on his M car versus my non-M.

I think it just depends on what you plan to do with the car...
__________________
Past rides: 2016 981 BGTS, 2020 MINI JCW, 2017 F80, 2015 981 CS, 2014 F22 235, 2011 E82 135, 2008 E82 135, 2007 E92 328, 2007 E92 328 (My lady drives an OG M2. So does my dad)
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2014, 11:02 AM   #91
w3rkn
Banned
10
Rep
390
Posts

Drives: BMW 135is
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Mich

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M.barnes View Post
I have ordered one without any intention of fitting an LSD. The E diff will be fine for me.
My friend, I too had the intention with my 135is.

I thought the eDiff might be enough for me, but once driven it becomes incredibly obvious that the car is lacking. Nearly half of the Car's day-to-day performance, is lost due to not having a true LSD.

Every turn, or any time I step into some power, the rear does things I don't like, and is awkward. It wasn't until after driving my friends Stang, I realized how badly I missed an LSD, & how badly the 135i needs an LSD.


The M235i needs an LSD, to be a M235i.
Otherwise you are buying nany electronics, that want to cheat you out of your cars intended performance.

But at least you will have the option ($1,500??). BMW welded my sh1t, because they know people wouldn't buy an M3, when they can get a 135i w/lsd from dealer.


edit:
LSD is NOT about skill, it is about how it feels and responds.
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2014, 11:09 AM   #92
Lucky13
Lucky13
United_States
211
Rep
1,762
Posts

Drives: 2014 M235 manual, 2020 X3 30X
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Columbia, S.C.

iTrader: (0)

[QUOTE=burnsniper;15279373]While the 1M is very fast, it was really designed to be a brutal, raw, fun, and an analogue machine in a time where electronics, adaptable suspensions, etc. are becoming the norm. The 1M's performance has always been underrated by BMW (as stated in previous posts) to protect the M3 from a marketing perspective. I would expect that in side by side comparisons with the same driver and on the same day that the 1M would indeed be faster on many tracks due to its power-to-weight ratio and larger rubber. However, there are some features of the M235i that would make it faster on some tracks:
  • Better Rubber - The stock PSSs are a significant upgrade to the stock PS2s on the 1M
  • "Better Transmission" - the auto 8 speed is likely faster than the manual - even Chris Harris preferred it in his review of the M135i
  • Better Aero - the 1M is about as aerodynamic as a flying brick due to its
    fender flairs and brunt nose (also gives it a unique character)
  • Adaptive/More Compliant Suspension - the 1M has a very stiff spring rate that has been noted by some drivers/reviewers to make it perform slower on some tracks
  • Longer Wheelbase - better handling on high speed tracks the ability to put down power easier (even driven at 5-6/10ths the 1M will have the traction control light flashing constantly)
  • Better DTC/STC - longer development time (including the M135i) allowed

    BMW to better tune the stability control programs

Given all of this, slap some PSSs on the 1M and its likely going to be the faster car in the real world. Also, the 1M will always be better at this:

[IMG]http://bmwcollin.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/small-
1MCoupe2011_Exterior_1600x1200_06_1024x768-300x225.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE

Actually one of the car magazines did this test (Motor Trend August 2011) and the
M3 barely won.
__________________
1995 325i, 1996 328ci, 1997 528i, 1997 Z3 2.8, 2000 528i, 2001 X5 3.0, 2001 330i Convertible, 2002 M3 Convertible, 2003 M3 Coupe, 2004 M3 Coupe, 2004 Z4 3.0, 2004 X3 3.0, 2007 X3 3.0, 2007 335i Convertible, 2013 X1 28 sdrive, 2014 M235 manual, 2020 X3 30i Xdrive

Last edited by Lucky13; 01-16-2014 at 11:15 AM..
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2014, 11:33 AM   #93
Jason
Administrator
Jason's Avatar
United_States
40312
Rep
21,232
Posts

Drives: F80 M3
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Correction:

We were told during the interview about an enforced 'camshaft' as one of the changes to the M235i's N55 engine, but it's actually the crankshaft that has been changed to steel (from cast iron).

This has been fixed in the interview in first post.
__________________
Check on the Latest BMW News
Become a fan of Bimmerpost Facebook
Follow us on Bimmerpost Twitter
Subscribe to Bimmerpost Youtube Channel
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2014, 11:42 AM   #94
SamS
Banned
United_States
866
Rep
6,248
Posts

Drives: Tesla M3 Perf + '18 X3 M40i
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

I will get blasted for this, but no HUD makes this car much less appealing. When there's a lot of cops around, Speed Limit Info + your actual speed displayed in the HUD can save the day. I don't want a radar detector.
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2014, 12:04 PM   #95
tuco44
Colonel
tuco44's Avatar
Canada
644
Rep
2,294
Posts

Drives: 2018 340i xDrive M Perf Edtn
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Western Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
That value is overrated...

It's just a Bastardized M Car.

In Germany people see it as a M Performance Model not a true and proper M Car. Imagine that!
Agree. The exorbitant resale prices for the 2011 1M may soon become realistic.
__________________
2018 340i xDrive M Perf Edtn Sunset Orange
Previous BMWs - 19 others since 1971.
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2014, 12:13 PM   #96
ChiTownM
Lieutenant Colonel
ChiTownM's Avatar
United_States
1046
Rep
1,533
Posts

Drives: M and i BMWs
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (0)

No M2 means lost sales in my book, this thread makes it obvious. I have had several M cars, have 2 at this exact time, and the M3/4 does nothing for me, while I have been excited about the last 3 generations. Granted, I did not drive it yet but my friend has a 435 and that this is huge....it looks like an 850 from the back! I am not bashing the new model nor the accomplishments and the great interior, I just want something else that BMW does not have anymore. I am not interested in a M performance model, since I did that once.....remember the 330 ZHP? Great car, loved it a lot, especially alcantara interior, but it was not a true M - I am willing to pay to play but don't make me wait too long BMW
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2014, 12:18 PM   #97
IEDEI
Banned
United_States
1129
Rep
4,686
Posts

Drives: L'Orange
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Brooklyn, NYC

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 BMW 1M  [8.40]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth 330i View Post
What enthusiasts need is a rwd 3200 lbs (or less) car that has basic features like Cayman R. I am sick of these overweight, luxury piglets that you need to invest another 10K to make usable on track and have no steering feel. M3/4 is clearly huge.
you may think it's huge....but the M3 and M4 are still lighter than the M235i.
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2014, 12:27 PM   #98
Mavus
Colonel
Mavus's Avatar
2015
Rep
2,659
Posts

Drives: E90 335i, F80 zcp
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: PA

iTrader: (9)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IEDEI
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth 330i View Post
What enthusiasts need is a rwd 3200 lbs (or less) car that has basic features like Cayman R. I am sick of these overweight, luxury piglets that you need to invest another 10K to make usable on track and have no steering feel. M3/4 is clearly huge.
you may think it's huge....but the M3 and M4 are still lighter than the overweight pig that is the M235i!
I know it is lighter but it is a large car now. Standard Cayman is less than 3000 lbs. Add 100tq/hp to it and voila you have a killer machine but damn P won't do it. It is 500+ lbs lighter than this pig.
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2014, 12:41 PM   #99
Robin_NL
S0THPAW
Robin_NL's Avatar
8680
Rep
7,846
Posts

Drives: HS M2 Competition
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The Netherlands

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
That value is overrated...

It's just a Bastardized M Car.

In Germany people see it as a M Performance Model not a true and proper M Car. Imagine that!
Thanks for explaining: I'll think about that when I outrun/pass/outbrake an M3 at a trackday in the bends

Nice German forum with a separate 1M subforum(I'm also a member there):
http://www.1erforum.de/bmw-1er-m-coupe/


Quote:
Originally Posted by IEDEI View Post
you may think it's huge....but the M3 and M4 are still lighter than the M235i.
Don't you think in real life it will be the other way around? Let's wait and see...

Cheers
Robin
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2014, 12:42 PM   #100
dmboone25
Lieutenant General
dmboone25's Avatar
4971
Rep
10,200
Posts

Drives: 2024 Golf R / 2022 718 Spyder
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2007 E92 328i  [10.00]
2007 328i  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by IEDEI View Post
you may think it's huge....but the M3 and M4 are still lighter than the M235i.
I don't think those numbers are right...they have said many times the E82 and M235 were going to be very close...but we need independent tests
__________________
Past rides: 2016 981 BGTS, 2020 MINI JCW, 2017 F80, 2015 981 CS, 2014 F22 235, 2011 E82 135, 2008 E82 135, 2007 E92 328, 2007 E92 328 (My lady drives an OG M2. So does my dad)
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2014, 01:16 PM   #101
burnsniper
First Lieutenant
251
Rep
386
Posts

Drives: AW F80 ZCP & 1M BSM
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: On a Creek in the Mountains

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuco44 View Post
Agree. The exorbitant resale prices for the 2011 1M may soon become realistic.
I don't know ...

When you have basically every car major reviewer Clarkson, Harris, Farah, Needel, etc. (Motor Trend being the exception) lavishing praise on a limited production car it certainly helps bolster its resale value.

Not to mention I had two separate people come up and talk to me about my car on a short lunch trip to the gym and to the gas station today ... not too bad for a 2 year old non Italian dirty black car on a cold but sunny winter day.

Also, last I heard CarMax is paying above original sticker for ~ 20,000 mile 1Ms.
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2014, 02:01 PM   #102
richb811
richb811's Avatar
450
Rep
4,592
Posts

Drives: 2020 G20 330i M Sport
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: NJ

iTrader: (21)

Quote:
Originally Posted by burnsniper View Post
While the 1M is very fast, it was really designed to be a brutal, raw, fun, and an analogue machine in a time where electronics, adaptable suspensions, etc. are becoming the norm. The 1M's performance has always been underrated by BMW (as stated in previous posts) to protect the M3 from a marketing perspective. I would expect that in side by side comparisons with the same driver and on the same day that the 1M would indeed be faster on many tracks due to its power-to-weight ratio and larger rubber. However, there are some features of the M235i that would make it faster on some tracks:
  • Better Rubber - The stock PSSs are a significant upgrade to the stock PS2s on the 1M
  • "Better Transmission" - the auto 8 speed is likely faster than the manual - even Chris Harris preferred it in his review of the M135i
  • Better Aero - the 1M is about as aerodynamic as a flying brick due to its fender flairs and brunt nose (also gives it a unique character)
  • Adaptive/More Compliant Suspension - the 1M has a very stiff spring rate that has been noted by some drivers/reviewers to make it perform slower on some tracks
  • Longer Wheelbase - better handling on high speed tracks the ability to put down power easier (even driven at 5-6/10ths the 1M will have the traction control light flashing constantly)
  • Better DTC/STC - longer development time (including the M135i) allowed BMW to better tune the stability control programs

Given all of this, slap some PSSs on the 1M and its likely going to be the faster car in the real world. Also, the 1M will always be better at this:



Appreciate 0
      01-16-2014, 02:04 PM   #103
tuco44
Colonel
tuco44's Avatar
Canada
644
Rep
2,294
Posts

Drives: 2018 340i xDrive M Perf Edtn
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Western Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
I don't think those numbers are right...they have said many times the E82 and M235 were going to be very close...but we need independent tests
According to BMW websites, the M235i and 135i, both in manual tranny form, are identical in unladen weight at 1530 kg, or 3360 lbs.
__________________
2018 340i xDrive M Perf Edtn Sunset Orange
Previous BMWs - 19 others since 1971.
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2014, 02:05 PM   #104
tonyzale
Enlisted Member
9
Rep
47
Posts

Drives: 2016' M3, S1000R, R nineT
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Austin, TX

iTrader: (0)

Big engine vs little engine

A higher output 4 would be very interesting. It already pulls quite nicely @ 240hp/260lbs. I'd be very interested and I'm in your 87%! I've had 09' 135i, 12' 335i and now a 14' 335i. I would have never considered a x28i 6. Too sleepy for me. However on my last 335i interests, the 28i was a close second. The lighter weight upfront is very attractive. Quicker and more fun really. 14' is M Sport with performance exhaust. It feels a little stronger than the 12' but that may just be in my head.

I'd be very interested in an M2 with a turbo 4, and I've had 3 big engines in a row.
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2014, 02:06 PM   #105
ska///235i
***** noob
ska///235i's Avatar
United_States
1354
Rep
10,479
Posts

Drives: 325xi>M235i>428GCx Mspor
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Boston

iTrader: (34)

Garage List
2006 325xi  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by w3rkn
Quote:
Originally Posted by M.barnes View Post
I have ordered one without any intention of fitting an LSD. The E diff will be fine for me.
My friend, I too had the intention with my 135is.

I thought the eDiff might be enough for me, but once driven it becomes incredibly obvious that the car is lacking. Nearly half of the Car's day-to-day performance, is lost due to not having a true LSD.

Every turn, or any time I step into some power, the rear does things I don't like, and is awkward. It wasn't until after driving my friends Stang, I realized how badly I missed an LSD, & how badly the 135i needs an LSD.


The M235i needs an LSD, to be a M235i.
Otherwise you are buying nany electronics, that want to cheat you out of your cars intended performance.

But at least you will have the option ($1,500??). BMW welded my sh1t, because they know people wouldn't buy an M3, when they can get a 135i w/lsd from dealer.


edit:
LSD is NOT about skill, it is about how it feels and responds.
Are you talking about the e-diff (aka rear brakes) grabbing the brakes on turns and releases ones the car straightens and give you that boost???
__________________
2006 325xi (Sold)
2014 M235I (Current)
2015 428xi Gran Coupe (STB)
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2014, 02:09 PM   #106
dmboone25
Lieutenant General
dmboone25's Avatar
4971
Rep
10,200
Posts

Drives: 2024 Golf R / 2022 718 Spyder
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2007 E92 328i  [10.00]
2007 328i  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuco44 View Post
According to BMW websites, the M235i and 135i, both in manual tranny form, are identical in unladen weight at 1530 kg, or 3360 lbs.
Thank you for the cite--and that makes sense to me. It has been the message for a while from BMW. I think we will know more when we get some real world weights, but there's no way the M235 is weighing more than an M3/M4....
__________________
Past rides: 2016 981 BGTS, 2020 MINI JCW, 2017 F80, 2015 981 CS, 2014 F22 235, 2011 E82 135, 2008 E82 135, 2007 E92 328, 2007 E92 328 (My lady drives an OG M2. So does my dad)
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2014, 02:56 PM   #107
ORIGIN M.
Banned
3160
Rep
9,134
Posts

Drives: ///M
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Northern Hemisphere

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin_NL
Quote:
Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
That value is overrated...

It's just a Bastardized M Car.

In Germany people see it as a M Performance Model not a true and proper M Car. Imagine that!
Thanks for explaining: I'll think about that when I outrun/pass/outbrake an M3 at a trackday in the bends

Nice German forum with a separate 1M subforum(I'm also a member there):
http://www.1erforum.de/bmw-1er-m-coupe/


Quote:
Originally Posted by IEDEI View Post
you may think it's huge....but the M3 and M4 are still lighter than the M235i.
Don't you think in real life it will be the other way around? Let's wait and see...

Cheers
Robin
As long as you didn't pay over sticker it was a great deal.
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2014, 03:04 PM   #108
dmboone25
Lieutenant General
dmboone25's Avatar
4971
Rep
10,200
Posts

Drives: 2024 Golf R / 2022 718 Spyder
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2007 E92 328i  [10.00]
2007 328i  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
As long as you didn't pay over sticker it was a great deal.
I think that the people who were smart and got on a dealer's list early probably did pretty well.

If you were like me and waited too long, then the markup was insane, and for me, prohibitive.
__________________
Past rides: 2016 981 BGTS, 2020 MINI JCW, 2017 F80, 2015 981 CS, 2014 F22 235, 2011 E82 135, 2008 E82 135, 2007 E92 328, 2007 E92 328 (My lady drives an OG M2. So does my dad)
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2014, 04:44 PM   #109
SCOTT26
Major General
SCOTT26's Avatar
5305
Rep
5,824
Posts

Drives: A big F-off German Truck.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: WORLDWIDE

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisk03 View Post
Good question. I was talking to a friend of mine today about the M235 and he is very tight with the person in the know at BMW M and he said not too expect one. He said the M235 is THAT good and BMW doesn't see the need for an M2, hence all the comments about how it "outperforms the 1M". That certainly could change...and I hope he's wrong, but he's been pretty spot on with most info he's given me.

That said, this M235 looks pretty awesome and could see dumping the E90, doing Euro Delivery, and driving around in the M235 with a big
Interesting... Is this BMW M. Garching? Or BMW M. North America?
Because in Garching the excitement is building for this car. They already know how good the standard M235i is and they know the potential a full blown M can do to reputation and sales- the BMW 1er M Coupe justified that.

At M. It is now about lightweight , its about using a lightweight philosophy to obtain that expected and greater level of precision.
The strategy for the M2 shows how a lightweight philosophy would be the greatest advantage for an M2 along with more or less the same recipe as the 1er M Coupe.
__________________
The M850i is evidence that BMW have got their mojo back when it comes to dynamic sports cars...
Appreciate 0
      01-16-2014, 04:51 PM   #110
Jadar
Dejan
Jadar's Avatar
Serbia
1751
Rep
4,197
Posts

Drives: 2018 Audi S3
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Michigan Ave.

iTrader: (6)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
It's a deal my man.
I'm holding you to that
__________________
FBO-PS1 and stuff
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:44 PM.




2addicts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST