THE LARGEST BMW 2-SERIES FORUM ON THE PLANET
2Addicts
2Addicts
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
2Addicts | BMW 2-Series forum BMW 2 Series (F22) Forum BMW 2 Series Coupe and Cabriolet (F22/F23) General Forum Comming from a 330i ZHP to a M235i review.

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      01-06-2015, 02:00 PM   #1
tke743
Major
tke743's Avatar
United_States
739
Rep
1,066
Posts

Drives: LBB M2 Comp
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Massachusetts

iTrader: (5)

Comming from a 330i ZHP to a M235i review.

Long story short I injured my knee and was forced move to an automatic from a stick. My beloved '04 ZHP had to go, but I'm happy she found a good home and I found a good replacement.

Lets break this down into different parts of the car as a whole.

Steering - Lets get this one over with. The steering on the 2 are very different. The ZHP had that old, "tried and true" BMW feeling. The weighting was perfect and the "not too heavy, not to light" aspect at all speeds was awesome. The M235i on the other hand is different. Is is not actually a negative as people say, but different. More accurate, lighter. The new weighting took some getting used to. Now that I have gotten used to it, I like it. There is no loss of feedback, you just need to calibrate.

Suspension - This was always the ZHP's strong suit. It was not to hard on the road and track capable. The M235i has taken this to a whole new level. When in comfort, it is smooth as silk (even on frost heaved roads in the northeast). When in sport or Sport+ is will out corner the ZHP, even in the snow.

Engine - The ZHP had a sweet mill for it's time. Fun to drive. But the M235i's mill is OMG.

Transmission - (Note that although I bought an auto, I test drove the stick 2x) The ZHP had the best 6 speed box I've ever used. Great weight, short throw, etc. The M235i's shifter was about 9/10 as good. The throw was too long.

The 8 speed auto is a revelation. If auto's were always this good, there would be less of us screaming for sticks. (That said, I will miss it even if it is medically not an option anymore.)

Exterior - This is subjective. I like the look of both

Interior - The M235i has it all over the ZHP. The ZHP had a nice interior and was uncluttered, but it is just short so many modern things.

Toys - See interior.

Summary - All in all, I kept the ZHP for 10 years. I always told BMW that I would buy a new car when they made a better one. So I bought a new one. I would have bought the M235i even if I hadn't hurt my knee, it just would have been stick.

Last edited by tke743; 01-06-2015 at 02:06 PM..
Appreciate 1
      01-06-2015, 02:43 PM   #2
ska///235i
***** noob
ska///235i's Avatar
United_States
1354
Rep
10,479
Posts

Drives: 325xi>M235i>428GCx Mspor
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Boston

iTrader: (34)

Garage List
2006 325xi  [0.00]
Congrats

I too have gotten use to the EPS (steering)....use to hate it in comfort mode

Its like sensitivity on a PC mouse, the first time I up the sensitivity I was like WTF is this? Then ones I got ise to it I said to myself why didnt I change the setting 10 years ago
__________________
2006 325xi (Sold)
2014 M235I (Current)
2015 428xi Gran Coupe (STB)
Appreciate 0
      01-06-2015, 02:46 PM   #3
golf_234
Captain
318
Rep
905
Posts

Drives: E46, E90, F30
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Santa Monica

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tke743 View Post
Long story short I injured my knee and was forced move to an automatic from a stick. My beloved '04 ZHP had to go, but I'm happy she found a good home and I found a good replacement.

Lets break this down into different parts of the car as a whole.

Steering - Lets get this one over with. The steering on the 2 are very different. The ZHP had that old, "tried and true" BMW feeling. The weighting was perfect and the "not too heavy, not to light" aspect at all speeds was awesome. The M235i on the other hand is different. Is is not actually a negative as people say, but different. More accurate, lighter. The new weighting took some getting used to. Now that I have gotten used to it, I like it. There is no loss of feedback, you just need to calibrate.

Suspension - This was always the ZHP's strong suit. It was not to hard on the road and track capable. The M235i has taken this to a whole new level. When in comfort, it is smooth as silk (even on frost heaved roads in the northeast). When in sport or Sport+ is will out corner the ZHP, even in the snow.

Engine - The ZHP had a sweet mill for it's time. Fun to drive. But the M235i's mill is OMG.

Transmission - (Note that although I bought an auto, I test drove the stick 2x) The ZHP had the best 6 speed box I've ever used. Great weight, short throw, etc. The M235i's shifter was about 9/10 as good. The throw was too long.

The 8 speed auto is a revelation. If auto's were always this good, there would be less of us screaming for sticks. (That said, I will miss it even if it is medically not an option anymore.)

Exterior - This is subjective. I like the look of both

Interior - The M235i has it all over the ZHP. The ZHP had a nice interior and was uncluttered, but it is just short so many modern things.

Toys - See interior.

Summary - All in all, I kept the ZHP for 10 years. I always told BMW that I would buy a new car when they made a better one. So I bought a new one. I would have bought the M235i even if I hadn't hurt my knee, it just would have been stick.
You are my hero and I love everything you are doing.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      01-06-2015, 02:51 PM   #4
gaijin
Mess Deck Commando
gaijin's Avatar
United_States
243
Rep
807
Posts

Drives: F30
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Florida

iTrader: (4)

Thanks. I'm debating on which 2-Series to go with and your inputs on M235i is most helpful.
Appreciate 0
      01-06-2015, 03:16 PM   #5
DSTR
Captain
DSTR's Avatar
1213
Rep
861
Posts

Drives: 22 M240iX / 23 M2 Tor-Red
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: EU / Dubai / Asia

iTrader: (0)

Nice review. Enjoy the car and hopefully, one day the knee will mend so you can enjoy a manual again! Cheers!
Appreciate 0
      01-06-2015, 03:18 PM   #6
jskrilla
Second Lieutenant
jskrilla's Avatar
Albania
71
Rep
266
Posts

Drives: M235i Xdrive
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: New York

iTrader: (0)

Great write up!
Appreciate 0
      01-06-2015, 03:26 PM   #7
tke743
Major
tke743's Avatar
United_States
739
Rep
1,066
Posts

Drives: LBB M2 Comp
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Massachusetts

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ska///235i View Post
Its like sensitivity on a PC mouse, the first time I up the sensitivity I was like WTF is this? Then ones I got ise to it I said to myself why didnt I change the setting 10 years ago
Great analogy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSTR View Post
Nice review. Enjoy the car and hopefully, one day the knee will mend so you can enjoy a manual again! Cheers!
Regretably, not an option. But TY.

I posted this as I'm coming from a "legendary" model (The ZHP) to the M235i and thought it was relevant.

Last edited by tke743; 01-06-2015 at 04:32 PM..
Appreciate 0
      01-06-2015, 06:46 PM   #8
Mark's M
Lieutenant Colonel
Mark's M's Avatar
Canada
615
Rep
1,820
Posts

Drives: 2016 M3 Individual
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Stoney Creek, ON

iTrader: (3)

Yes it was relevant. Nicely done and enjoy the new ride!
__________________
2016 Individual Silverlake/Amaro M3 Conceived by ///M
Appreciate 0
      01-06-2015, 07:11 PM   #9
TiM235i
Private First Class
TiM235i's Avatar
United_States
20
Rep
143
Posts

Drives: '15 M235i
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Georgia

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2015 BMW M235i  [0.00]
This is an excellent write up. I really do like how you described the steering. I had a 2005 330i (not a ZHP) and a 2005 M3 as well. I think you described the steering feel differences perfectly. It's not better or worse necessarily, just different.

And I agree that the suspension of the M235i does beat out the E46 as well. While I know the M3 would handle as well or better, it was pretty harsh as a daily driver. The 2 series has a great suspension for everything.

Thanks for your comparison -- very well done.
__________________


2015 M235i
Appreciate 0
      01-06-2015, 07:16 PM   #10
BMW335iOn18s
Resident BMW Fanboy
BMW335iOn18s's Avatar
United_States
259
Rep
866
Posts

Drives: F82 CS SMB
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Philadelphia, PA

iTrader: (0)

Awesome review! I think it's safe to say that the M235i is kind of the modern day - ZHP. At the very minimum, the ZHP was the originator of the "is" 335i, 135i, and eventually the "M Performance" line up....at least to me it is!
__________________
Current: '20 F82 M4cs SMB / '13 640i M-Sport Carbon Black
Past: F30 330xi Luxury Line / F22 M235i 6MT / E92 335i / E46 330ci / E36 328i 5MT
Appreciate 0
      01-06-2015, 08:15 PM   #11
RobNH
Second Lieutenant
RobNH's Avatar
United_States
22
Rep
200
Posts

Drives: 2015 BMW M235i xDrive
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New Hampshire

iTrader: (0)

Congrats and awesome review!
__________________
Current: 2015 ///M235i xDrive | 8-spd Auto | Glacier Silver/Black | Brushed Aluminum Trim | Cold, Tech, Premium, Driver Assist Packages | Harman/Kardon Surround Sound System

Previous: 2008 E92 335xi Coupe
Previous: 2004 330xi Sedan
Appreciate 0
      01-06-2015, 08:23 PM   #12
Racer20
Major
United_States
1030
Rep
1,190
Posts

Drives: F80 M3, 228i THP, E46 ZHP
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ann Arbor, MI

iTrader: (0)

Great write up. I have a ZHP sedan that has been my commuter for the past 5 years. I also have an F80 M3 as a toy, and I take delivery of a 228i Track Pack later this month.

I'm pretty sure I'll be impressed with the THP on my 228i, but I will own the ZHP until the day either I die or it dies. You're right in that it's not as good as a modern car with adaptive shocks and all the fancy tech, but I still love driving it, even back to back with my M3. It's a great "reference" car to keep around, as I think it was the pinnacle of that traditional BMW feel that doesn't really exist any more.
__________________
2015 M3, 2005 330i ZHP, 2015 228i 6MT Track Handling Pack, 2007 M Coupe (Sold)
Appreciate 0
      01-06-2015, 08:27 PM   #13
Racer20
Major
United_States
1030
Rep
1,190
Posts

Drives: F80 M3, 228i THP, E46 ZHP
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ann Arbor, MI

iTrader: (0)

Another point that becomes clear with this comparison is how much better a decent adaptive damping system will perform than even a REALLY good passive system. That's a big factor in the M235i's ride and handling balance.
__________________
2015 M3, 2005 330i ZHP, 2015 228i 6MT Track Handling Pack, 2007 M Coupe (Sold)
Appreciate 0
      01-06-2015, 08:35 PM   #14
tke743
Major
tke743's Avatar
United_States
739
Rep
1,066
Posts

Drives: LBB M2 Comp
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Massachusetts

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim335i View Post
This is an excellent write up. I really do like how you described the steering. I had a 2005 330i (not a ZHP) and a 2005 M3 as well. I think you described the steering feel differences perfectly. It's not better or worse necessarily, just different.
The ZHP stearing was the same as the e46 M3. So we are comparing the same thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW335iOn18s View Post
Awesome review! I think it's safe to say that the M235i is kind of the modern day - ZHP. At the very minimum, the ZHP was the originator of the "is" 335i, 135i, and eventually the "M Performance" line up....at least to me it is!
I completely agree, but then there are the ZHP's bastard children, the "M-line" vehicles.

Last edited by tke743; 01-06-2015 at 09:19 PM..
Appreciate 0
      01-06-2015, 09:02 PM   #15
MEBII
Mike Bryan
MEBII's Avatar
United_States
17
Rep
73
Posts

Drives: 2015 M235i
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: United States

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2015 BMW M235i  [0.00]
You are obviously a person of impecable taste in cars. I'm also going from a ZHP 6 speed to an M235i AT. (just started the order today for Welt delivery). I agree on almost every point except the manual in the f22 is really fantastic, I found it equal to my ZHPs if not better; albeit the car is 130,000 miles old.
Appreciate 0
      01-06-2015, 09:18 PM   #16
tke743
Major
tke743's Avatar
United_States
739
Rep
1,066
Posts

Drives: LBB M2 Comp
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Massachusetts

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MEBII View Post
You are obviously a person of impecable taste in cars. I'm also going from a ZHP 6 speed to an M235i AT. (just started the order today for Welt delivery). I agree on almost every point except the manual in the f22 is really fantastic, I found it equal to my ZHPs if not better; albeit the car is 130,000 miles old.
I did ED too. Great experience. As to the f22 6 speed. It was just the slightly longer throw I didn't like. Minor nitpick, but the ZHP 6 speed was superlative.
Appreciate 0
      01-06-2015, 10:27 PM   #17
Racer20
Major
United_States
1030
Rep
1,190
Posts

Drives: F80 M3, 228i THP, E46 ZHP
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ann Arbor, MI

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tke743 View Post
The ZHP stearing was the same as the e46 M3. So we are comparing the same thing.



I completely agree, but then there are the ZHP's bastard children, the "M-line" vehicles.
Even if the steering gear itself is the same part number, the steering is heavily influenced by the suspension, tires, and other factors. The M3 and ZHP steering feel and response are not the same. They are both good, but when I was test driving cars back then, I found that I preferred the ZHP over the M3. But that's neither here nor there, we both agree that the ZHP is a fantastic car.
__________________
2015 M3, 2005 330i ZHP, 2015 228i 6MT Track Handling Pack, 2007 M Coupe (Sold)
Appreciate 0
      01-06-2015, 10:48 PM   #18
tke743
Major
tke743's Avatar
United_States
739
Rep
1,066
Posts

Drives: LBB M2 Comp
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Massachusetts

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer20 View Post
Even if the steering gear itself is the same part number, the steering is heavily influenced by the suspension, tires, and other factors. The M3 and ZHP steering feel and response are not the same. They are both good, but when I was test driving cars back then, I found that I preferred the ZHP over the M3. But that's neither here nor there, we both agree that the ZHP is a fantastic car.
Agreed, but we were discussing feel. In that they were identical to me in back to back autoX runs. Turn in and response are different, but the feel and weight were the same.
Appreciate 0
      01-07-2015, 05:34 PM   #19
horsepower_and_hounds
Brigadier General
1836
Rep
4,204
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: USA

iTrader: (9)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tke743 View Post
Long story short I injured my knee and was forced move to an automatic from a stick. My beloved '04 ZHP had to go, but I'm happy she found a good home and I found a good replacement.

Lets break this down into different parts of the car as a whole.

Steering - Lets get this one over with. The steering on the 2 are very different. The ZHP had that old, "tried and true" BMW feeling. The weighting was perfect and the "not too heavy, not to light" aspect at all speeds was awesome. The M235i on the other hand is different. Is is not actually a negative as people say, but different. More accurate, lighter. The new weighting took some getting used to. Now that I have gotten used to it, I like it. There is no loss of feedback, you just need to calibrate.

Suspension - This was always the ZHP's strong suit. It was not to hard on the road and track capable. The M235i has taken this to a whole new level. When in comfort, it is smooth as silk (even on frost heaved roads in the northeast). When in sport or Sport+ is will out corner the ZHP, even in the snow.

Engine - The ZHP had a sweet mill for it's time. Fun to drive. But the M235i's mill is OMG.

Transmission - (Note that although I bought an auto, I test drove the stick 2x) The ZHP had the best 6 speed box I've ever used. Great weight, short throw, etc. The M235i's shifter was about 9/10 as good. The throw was too long.

The 8 speed auto is a revelation. If auto's were always this good, there would be less of us screaming for sticks. (That said, I will miss it even if it is medically not an option anymore.)

Exterior - This is subjective. I like the look of both

Interior - The M235i has it all over the ZHP. The ZHP had a nice interior and was uncluttered, but it is just short so many modern things.

Toys - See interior.

Summary - All in all, I kept the ZHP for 10 years. I always told BMW that I would buy a new car when they made a better one. So I bought a new one. I would have bought the M235i even if I hadn't hurt my knee, it just would have been stick.
Boom............
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2015, 03:27 AM   #20
Cal
Second Lieutenant
31
Rep
214
Posts

Drives: BMWs, NSX.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: CA

iTrader: (0)

Great review and comparison between the two cars. As a former owner of an early e46 323i and also an e36M3, I can agree with you on all points. In regards to the steering, you said it well. They are different, and the hydraulic steering of the early BMWs isn't necessarily "better". The F22 steering is actually more precise, albeit a little lighter. After getting used to it, I prefer it more than the hydraulic ones on the early e46 and e36. The hydraulic steering of the e46/e36 has a heavier feeling, but IMO, it is slower, and had on-center play. That is, at speed, you could move the steering wheel 5-10 degrees left or right, with no effect on the steering. In the F22 (in sport+ mode), this is not the case. The steering is quicker, and it reacts to the slightest movement of the steering wheel. I'm not sure if the e46 ZHP steering had on-center play or not, but I do know that they increased the steering ratio on it vs. the earlier e46s to make it feel sportier.
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2015, 07:25 AM   #21
ewohar
Private
United_States
22
Rep
82
Posts

Drives: 335I Dinan Stage II
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: MD

iTrader: (0)

Very much agree with this write up. The more you work with the car, the better the steering feels. You just have to learn the car, and it take a bit of effort.
Appreciate 0
      01-08-2015, 07:49 AM   #22
tke743
Major
tke743's Avatar
United_States
739
Rep
1,066
Posts

Drives: LBB M2 Comp
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Massachusetts

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal View Post
I'm not sure if the e46 ZHP steering had on-center play or not, but I do know that they increased the steering ratio on it vs. the earlier e46s to make it feel sportier.
The ZHP had NO play on center. Just like the M235i. The big thing people say in reviews on the M235i steering is that they get no feedback from the steering. That is completely untrue, it is just lighter in direct proportion to the lighter steering. For those of us who have been driving BWM's for years it takes some getting used to. But now that I have re-calibrated I like it. It is not better or worse, just different.

Last edited by tke743; 01-08-2015 at 10:18 AM..
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:18 AM.




2addicts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST