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2Addicts | BMW 2-Series forum BMW 2 Series (F22) Forum BMW 2 Series Coupe and Cabriolet (F22/F23) General Forum Anyone considering Golf R?

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      02-15-2014, 11:57 PM   #45
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So Mk7 Golf R 250 lbs more than GTI? Hmmm. APR tuned Mk7 GTI with performance pack/LSD is starting to look good.
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      02-16-2014, 09:05 AM   #46
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I just came back from Toronto autoshow and checked out Golf GTI Mk7. I asked the salesman where is the pitch control for the driver's seat (the car had electric seats). He said there is no pitch control.

I said surely in Golf R there must be a pitch control. He said: no, that's the best seat they use in all Mk7 Golfs. I then asked him where is the button to adjust the seat's side bolsters. Again he said there isn't one. Mk7 Golf is turning out to be a joke: even WRX has pitch control.

If I can't adjust the seat fully (like I can in my 128i with Sport Package) I am no longer interested in that car. Good human - machine interface is what divides good cars from mediocre ones.
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      02-16-2014, 10:28 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transfer
So Mk7 Golf R 250 lbs more than GTI? Hmmm. APR tuned Mk7 GTI with performance pack/LSD is starting to look good.
No doubt a tuned GTI can be faster than a stock R, but I'll take the weight penalty to have awd, especially now that this generation of Haldex runs constant power to the rears and can send nearly all power to the back once slip occurs.

Further I'd unfortunately bet that the US weight for the GTI is around 3100 or 3150 pounds due to standard content, making the gap closer to 150 or even 100 pounds.
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      02-16-2014, 11:01 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Transfer
So Mk7 Golf R 250 lbs more than GTI? Hmmm. APR tuned Mk7 GTI with performance pack/LSD is starting to look good.
No doubt a tuned GTI can be faster than a stock R, but I'll take the weight penalty to have awd, especially now that this generation of Haldex runs constant power to the rears and can send nearly all power to the back once slip occurs.

Further I'd unfortunately bet that the US weight for the GTI is around 3100 or 3150 pounds due to standard content, making the gap closer to 150 or even 100 pounds.
So is the R Haldex constant 50:50 in non slip driving? That would be new. Do we now anything about all the diffs in the R?
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      02-16-2014, 11:46 AM   #49
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Sorry, constant meant only as there is now continuous power delivery to the rear. Borg Warner is vague about specifics. I'd be shocked if it were 50/50 though, but haven't seen the rear axles of the Mk7 yet. The 6's were tiny though.

As for diffs, if assume it's just the front Torsen LSD like the GTI, I can't see them doing a torque vectoring rear diff like Audi has, since they didn't even offer that on the TT RS.
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      02-16-2014, 07:37 PM   #50
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so the gti has the option of a mech lsd but the R is still using brake based torque vectoring based on haldex awd?
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      02-17-2014, 11:49 AM   #51
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^ I believe that's the case but not having a true lateral e-diff should not be such an issue with the R since power can be transferred F to R if slippage starts, which is of course impossible with the GTI. Consequently the brake-based torque vectoring will not be quite so critical and the brakes should be less taxed (they are probably bigger in the R anyways come to think of it).
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      02-17-2014, 11:56 AM   #52
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The R has the same brakes as the Performance Pack GTI. But I do agree that Haldex should more than offset the traction advantages of the mechanical LSD in the GTI.

The Mk4 R32 felt a little traction limited and had torque steer. I never drove a Mk5 R32, but the Mk6 I drove really didn't exhibit torque steer and felt more than adequate in terms of power transfer to the rear. Of course taking weight off and adding power should hurt that, but the newer Haldex should help with that too.

Now that the 5th generation isn't using an external pump controller, I suppose it will be harder (at least mechanically, no reason to think it can't be done electronically) to divert more power rearward.
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      02-17-2014, 12:24 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bam226
I've owned 2 VW's. A MKV GTI and a MKVI R. They look nice, drive decent and is cheap everywhere else in between. Which is why I made the switch and will not go back.
+ 1

The Golf R will not have the driving dynamics of the M235i. If history repeats itself with VW.

Owned VW's most of my life. They're great commuter cars and give you that feel good sportiness to them and yes, they can somewhat handle at certain speeds and be fun, but that's about it.

Unless you sink money to get a proper LSD and upgrade suspension components, it won't give you the same thrills as a rwd BMW, especially when comparing to a M performance or full M car.

Just my .02
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      02-17-2014, 01:24 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
The R has the same brakes as the Performance Pack GTI. But I do agree that Haldex should more than offset the traction advantages of the mechanical LSD in the GTI.

The Mk4 R32 felt a little traction limited and had torque steer. I never drove a Mk5 R32, but the Mk6 I drove really didn't exhibit torque steer and felt more than adequate in terms of power transfer to the rear. Of course taking weight off and adding power should hurt that, but the newer Haldex should help with that too.

Now that the 5th generation isn't using an external pump controller, I suppose it will be harder (at least mechanically, no reason to think it can't be done electronically) to divert more power rearward.
I had a '08 R32 (gen V), there was no torque steer at all, never drove the MK IV but I am pretty sure it was a serious improvement
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      05-21-2014, 01:07 PM   #55
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Golf R Wagon

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      05-21-2014, 01:15 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvandenhaute View Post
I had a '08 R32 (gen V), there was no torque steer at all, never drove the MK IV but I am pretty sure it was a serious improvement
We had an '08 as well, great little car.
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      05-21-2014, 01:59 PM   #57
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Yes, I am. Wife has a 2008 GTI MkV. Great little car except front wheel drive doesn't do it for me. It has the best seats ever IMHO. Roomy back seat for kids, great headroom, sounds great and it's real sound. It has an analog temp gauge and only one R badge in the rear which looks classy. Very, very interested!
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      05-21-2014, 03:09 PM   #58
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      05-21-2014, 03:27 PM   #59
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Isn't the upcoming S3 just a Golf R with a trunk and Audi styling?
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      05-21-2014, 04:09 PM   #60
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Isn't the upcoming S3 just a Golf R with a trunk and Audi styling?
.................................
In many ways. I think there is a difference between the Haldex 4 wheel drive system vs. the Audi quattro or whatever the S3 is running, and maybe 1 or 2 suspension differences.

The price difference should be substantial.

S3 details coming in summer, R details end of 2014, so we 'll see.

If the 2 series had 4 doors, I probably would have done that. I expect to go with the R.
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      05-21-2014, 04:43 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rca06Mcoupe View Post
Isn't the upcoming S3 just a Golf R with a trunk and Audi styling?
.................................
In many ways. I think there is a difference between the Haldex 4 wheel drive system vs. the Audi quattro or whatever the S3 is running, and maybe 1 or 2 suspension differences.

The price difference should be substantial.

S3 details coming in summer, R details end of 2014, so we 'll see.

If the 2 series had 4 doors, I probably would have done that. I expect to go with the R.
The S3 will not be running true Quattro, although they are calling it that. It's still based on the MBQ FWD platform, so it's biased that way similar the the CLA AMG. The RS3 will be the same thing only worse, although there are rumors of an RS3 avant or hatch or whatever you want to call it showing up stateside.
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      05-21-2014, 07:03 PM   #62
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Correct, both the S3 and Golf R will be running Haldex v5 which can send more than 90% of the power to the rear and runs at least some power to the rear continuously. The CLA45 is running an older version that can only send a max of 60% to the rear and is 100% fwd until slip is detected.

I swear I saw pricing released for the S3 of around $42k base and $46k for the Premium Plus, but I can't find a link now. The Golf R pricing is not official yet, but expect it to be very close to Mk6 pricing or mid $30k's.

Still not confirmed, but rumor is that the Mk7 R will have both two and three pedal options while the US S3 sedan will be two pedal only, at least at launch.

Edit - "leaked" S3 pricing, certainly not official:
http://jalopnik.com/the-2015-audi-s3...ked-1525380480
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      05-21-2014, 07:25 PM   #63
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I'd like to test drive one. I've owned 3 generations of GTI's and really liked those boxy little buggers. I'd like to replace my Jeep with a fun AWD and this is on my list. I'm not feeling the horseshoe rings tho, much prefer the rounds. Minor stuff.
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      05-21-2014, 07:31 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Edit - "leaked" S3 pricing, certainly not official:
http://jalopnik.com/the-2015-audi-s3...ked-1525380480
Ha, I leaked that! Funny that it's popping up everywhere.
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      05-21-2014, 07:36 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Correct, both the S3 and Golf R will be running Haldex v5 which can send more than 90% of the power to the rear and runs at least some power to the rear continuously. The CLA45 is running an older version that can only send a max of 60% to the rear and is 100% fwd until slip is detected.

I swear I saw pricing released for the S3 of around $42k base and $46k for the Premium Plus, but I can't find a link now. The Golf R pricing is not official yet, but expect it to be very close to Mk6 pricing or mid $30k's.

Still not confirmed, but rumor is that the Mk7 R will have both two and three pedal options while the US S3 sedan will be two pedal only, at least at launch.

Edit - "leaked" S3 pricing, certainly not official:
http://jalopnik.com/the-2015-audi-s3...ked-1525380480
You mean 90% of the 50% of the total engine power that is available to the back wheels right?

Also, it is official from VW on both counts, R gets manual and auto here in US, S3 auto only. It was reiterated in a press release just this month.

It's funny to find this thread here, I was dead-set on an R, but once I started researching past VW lease rates and estimating new ones, the R i was planning on getting leases for about the same amount as an almost maxed out m235i. So now, I'm starting to consider the m235i as a real possibility. Plus, can you say European Delivery?
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      05-21-2014, 08:06 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottomfg View Post
You mean 90% of the 50% of the total engine power that is available to the back wheels right?

Also, it is official from VW on both counts, R gets manual and auto here in US, S3 auto only. It was reiterated in a press release just this month.

It's funny to find this thread here, I was dead-set on an R, but once I started researching past VW lease rates and estimating new ones, the R i was planning on getting leases for about the same amount as an almost maxed out m235i. So now, I'm starting to consider the m235i as a real possibility. Plus, can you say European Delivery?
There is no way in the world the S3 will lease out nearly as well as the m235. The R might be in the same ballpark but really why would you want to do that?
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