[ska///235i]

Originally Posted by aajami

Why hasn't Scott chimed in yet?

maybe Herbert Diess is Scott's boss

[aspensilver]

Originally Posted by Carnook

"Our core philosophy is to never fear cannibalization. If we don’t do it, someone else will."

Tim Cook

Was a good quote until "Tim Cook"

Why is everyone forgetting about the next 1 series? Isn't that supposed to be the equivalent to a CLA -- FWD 4cyl turbo car?

[bimmerjph]

Originally Posted by aspensilver

Was a good quote until "Tim Cook"

Why is everyone forgetting about the next 1 series? Isn't that supposed to be the equivalent to a CLA -- FWD 4cyl turbo car?

Thats why we are forgetting about it.

[clbmw]

Originally Posted by Ramos

Ok sorry I jumped on your comment then !

In fact if I'd had anything intelligent to say at all when I wrote hat comment I would have said:

- A 5 door car not 4 door
- Rather than moaning about UKL saying I'm sure whatever M product comes out from the UKL platform will be good and I'm sure the 4WD drive versions of the new 1 series will at least be some recompense for moving to FWD transverse.

[Mr Kleen]

Originally Posted by JB3CK24

Well this sucks...

I was waiting for an e46 sized BMW 4 door to come back.

You and me both. I'd pay 3er money for a 2GC because I want a smaller car but I like the functionality of 4 doors.
I see 1er hatchbacks all day long in Germany but I can't bring one back.

Figures. BMW will make just about every damn car they can think up except the one I want.

[rca06Mcoupe]

Originally Posted by Mr Kleen

You and me both. I'd pay 3er money for a 2GC because I want a smaller car but I like the functionality of 4 doors.
I see 1er hatchbacks all day long in Germany but I can't bring one back.

Figures. BMW will make just about every damn car they can think up except the one I want.

....................
Here is one more..

[alexb]

Originally Posted by thomps

The best argument is price, IMO, because I think that's all the average consumer cares about. We might think no one would cross-shop the CLA and the 3-series because one's sporty and compact and the other one has become a boat. But I'd be willing to bet that if someone optioned out a CLA into 3-series territory, they'd walk over to BMW before making the plunge, and they'd seriously contemplating getting a 3-series, because they view the added space as a benefit and they don't care whether the electronic steering feels "lifeless" or whether it plows in the corners or what the 0-60 time is. They wouldn't appreciate the option of a 2GC because they wouldn't appreciate the tradeoff between size and performance. They just care what it's going to cost.

If BMW doesn't think it could make a 2GC that is both competitive with CLA/A3 pricing and at the same time wouldn't offset its own justification by cannibalizing current 3-series sales, then the car doesn't make sense.

Having been car shopping with my Dad, I can tell you that this is exactly how he thought about the process. He ended up with a 128i not because he was shopping small, but because it was the right price. He drove both 1er & 3er, liked both, but could not justify the cost difference to step up to a 328i or xi coupe. He was, in particular, quite furious that he couldn't get a limited slip differential -- even by ordering one!

I understand that they're worried about cannibalizing the 3er sales. But, anybody who wants a middle seat (and leg room) will have to get a 3er -- I'm assuming the 2GC will be a 2+2. However, I think there will be cannibalization in the other direction. People will come in to look at the 2GC, realize how much they're about to spend, then say, "why buy this 2GC when a 3er costs almost as much?"

Still, a 2GC will be a hot seller in this crowd of enthusiasts, for sure, but also anybody who lives in a tight metro area (IE San Francisco) and wants to be able to park their car. Depending on how BMW prices it, you could be shopping a fully loaded 2GC against a mildly loaded 3er. If that's the case, I think the decision would break towards the 2GC. (Quickly building a 228 and 328 side by side on BMW's site shows $6k savings by going down to the 2er).

Personally, my case for the car breaks down to all of this:

+ I like the sporty, small car -- I wanna drive it, I wanna park it!
+ Nobody rides in my back seats -- but I like to put my groceries back there.
+ No kids, not shopping for a family car.
+ I'd like to fully option it, (IE Premium Pkg) which will be less costly in a 2er than a 3er -- Cost savings from 3er to 2er will pay for that Premium Pkg.

Whatever happens, they're not going to sell a ton of these cars, and if they're cool with that, maybe they'll make it for us. Somebody further up the thread also said it quite well -- BMW dealers have been treating the 1-Series like a second-class citizen and trying to up-sell people into a three. Would be nice if the dealers stop doing that.

[flinchy]

FINALLY someone at bmw makes a good decision.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by flinchy

FINALLY someone at bmw makes a good decision.

It's not official and people like you are hilarious.

[clbmw]

No offence to them but I wouldn't believe a word anyone at BMW says about something not happening...

It would be hackneyed of me to list all of the things that BMW have revisited/u-turned on; it would seem now the biggest predictor of what BMW will do is (excepting the supercar SLS or R8) the Audi and Merc lineup. Credit to BMW whatever they produce in response is nearly always far superior (except say 7 series vs S class), but they are competing directly.

My money is there will be a GC/Saloon 2/1 series at some point, unless the CLA and A3 saloon are discontinued.

[aajami]

Originally Posted by aspensilver

Was a good quote until "Tim Cook"

Why is everyone forgetting about the next 1 series? Isn't that supposed to be the equivalent to a CLA -- FWD 4cyl turbo car?

Because no one on these forums wants a FWD car.

[xl5]

True.

I will no more buy an FWD BMW than an Audi or Mercedes.

Ford does it as well or better, among many others.

RWD is the buying proposition, period. And the 3 is now too big.

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by clbmw

No offence to them but I wouldn't believe a word anyone at BMW says about something not happening...

It would be hackneyed of me to list all of the things that BMW have revisited/u-turned on; it would seem now the biggest predictor of what BMW will do is (excepting the supercar SLS or R8) the Audi and Merc lineup. Credit to BMW whatever they produce in response is nearly always far superior (except say 7 series vs S class), but they are competing directly.

My money is there will be a GC/Saloon 2/1 series at some point, unless the CLA and A3 saloon are discontinued.

Yes there will be a 1 Series Sedan/2 Series GranCoupé that is FWD, but will there be one that is RWD? That is the question!

Before, but that is no more the case now, of if the BMW is superior, no more by a large margin. What is worse about an Audi compared to BMW? There is only one thing: connection driver-car-road. But we know Audi can do that (i.e R8).

[clbmw]

Originally Posted by Levi

Yes there will be a 1 Series Sedan/2 Series GranCoup that is FWD, but will there be one that is RWD? That is the question!

Before, but that is no more the case now, of if the BMW is superior, no more by a large margin. What is worse about an Audi compared to BMW? There is only one thing: connection driver-car-road. But we know Audi can do that (i.e R8).

I expect eventually the top end model sedan of the class will be R biased 4WD, M aren't stupid.

Well whilst it's not scientific, I'm going on the reviews which always rave about the 1,3,5 series often citing them as top of their respective classes, the 3 especially.

As much as I've had a soft spot for Audi since the 80s it is often dispelled when I remember Jeremy Clarkson screaming "UNDERSTEEEEEEEER" when trying to corner in the RS5.. or the comparison video of the M135i vs RS3 where yet again the reviewers are complaining about understeer and lack of involvement on the Audi.

When Audi or Merc make the better car I'll consider a switch, but it's not happened yet in the time I've been buying that kind of car (excepting the SLS and R8 which a simply too much for me to spend on a car).

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by clbmw

I expect eventually the top end model sedan of the class will be R biased 4WD, M aren't stupid.

Well whilst it's not scientific, I'm going on the reviews which always rave about the 1,3,5 series often citing them as top of their respective classes, the 3 especially.

As much as I've had a soft spot for Audi since the 80s it is often dispelled when I remember Jeremy Clarkson screaming "UNDERSTEEEEEEEER" when trying to corner in the RS5.. or the comparison video of the M135i vs RS3 where yet again the reviewers are complaining about understeer and lack of involvement on the Audi.

When Audi or Merc make the better car I'll consider a switch, but it's not happened yet in the time I've been buying that kind of car (excepting the SLS and R8 which a simply too much for me to spend on a car).

here's the Stig (Ben Collins) talking about Audis and understeer.

he basically says people who understeer them don't know how to drive....and he's probably right. Having driven LOTS of Audis i agree with Mr. Collins.

Many journalists can't drive very well so i don't believe what i read. And most people should judge a car from their own test drive i reckon. I've never driven an Audi that understeered - the only model that might be over-engineered is the TTRS, but the standard TT is wicked, i drove one last week.

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comment...ything/ccmzi0s

[clbmw]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

here's the Stig (Ben Collins) talking about Audis and understeer.

he basically says people who understeer them don't know how to drive....and he's probably right. Having driven LOTS of Audis i agree with Mr. Collins.

Many journalists can't drive very well so i don't believe what i read. And most people should judge a car from their own test drive i reckon. I've never driven an Audi that understeered - the only model that might be over-engineered is the TTRS, but the standard TT is wicked, i drove one last week.

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comment...ything/ccmzi0s

If only the Stig could have spoken on Top Gear! Yes granted the TT gets good write ups apart from the Mk1 which was dangerous without a spoiler.

Well I dunno, maybe I'm a crap driver, but I think I've got the basics of RWD over last few years. Like the journos I prob wouldn't drive it right then either, guess I'll be sticking to BMW

[m981addicts]

My màin reason for wanting a 4 door 2GC is to access the area behind the driver's seat of a coupe without having to move the seatback out of the way.

[eldo33]

Originally Posted by ska325xi

Bmw made all these useless models and now says a compact sedan is not needed here when everybody is waiting for a compact sedan....wtf are you smoking

The 3 series have gotten too big (aka lincoln towncar) and alot of ppl would like a 2 series size sedan like the e46

the 3 is big? rwally? r oeople in the US shriking in size these days? siubt it.

the 3 is fine as it is cuz the 1 and 2 series r barely big with minor inches. i laught when over 6 feet adukt getting iut of a small car, look ridiculous.

they should lower their price of current 3 to come back where it is.

CLA is a tiny 2 person car with extra rear seats for nothing. i'm 5'8 and that car feel like a damn small cube.

[Ramos]

Yes the 3er is huge, I got almost stuck in a underground Parking garage in Paris during my ED trip, and that was an E90!!

[Red Bread]

Yep, I'm 6'2" and never want something as large as the F30. Laugh all you want at me getting out of my cars, they're more fun and better at actually avoiding accidents.

It has nothing to do with price either. A 3er could be half of the current price and I'd still prefer a Golf R, a Cayman or an Alfa 4C.

[aspensilver]

Originally Posted by aajami

Because no one on these forums wants a FWD car.

I think you and the other guy missed the point -- everyone is saying 'omg 2er GC is needed to fight the CLA etc' but they will already have the 1er to fight fire with fire.

I don't want any FWD BMWs either. Don't be silly enough to think anyone who bothered to register does!

[aajami]

Originally Posted by aspensilver

I think you and the other guy missed the point -- everyone is saying 'omg 2er GC is needed to fight the CLA etc' but they will already have the 1er to fight fire with fire.

I don't want any FWD BMWs either. Don't be silly enough to think anyone who bothered to register does!

If you're talking about the next-generation 1-series based on the FWD UKL platform, that won't be released for another 3-4 years. Right now, BMW is fighting fire with nothing.

Conversely, they could have had a 2GC based on the RWD F2x platform out this year had they had their act together and fought fire with better RWD fire.