[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by Haywood

First of all, it's a rumor about the N55. I don't see why they couldn't use the S55, but we'll see.

it's not a 'rumour"...see the other sticky thread in the M2 forums. the M2 is already in testing with the N55TO (updated version).

[stefan]

Originally Posted by Haywood

First of all, it's a rumor about the N55. I don't see why they couldn't use the S55, but we'll see. But, it's surprising that you've owned/own a M3 and feel that the M2 is just an overpriced M235i? Is that what the E92 M3 is to a 335? And get over the bespoke engine. We won't see it anymore. Also, what other division at the major autos are making better versions of their regular models than the M division?

Well I'm not a fanboy, so no, I don't see any need to "get over it". I have an idea in my head about what an M car should be, what I grew up wanting in my garage. And.. by the way.. the gap between the E92 M3, or the E46 m3 and the non M3 variants is quite significant with very few reused parts, quite unlike the 1M and M2. And it's not like an N55 is the perfect engine for an M2 or anything. It is 100% sales margins and economics for BMW. I find it odd that everyone on here defends that to the death. I guess Bimmerpost really is biased towards the newer BMWs and their marketing-driven design.

And as for your dismissal of other manufacturers. How about GM? The Camaro ZL1 and Z/28 variants. The Corvette ZR1. And Ford, with the GT500 and Boss 302 outperforming M models for a fraction of the price and drastically improving from their non SVT counterparts. Hell, take a look at the Focus ST which completely transforms the Focus into an amazing FWD hot hatch that blows the doors off the competition.

As for the Germans, what about the R8 V10? The RS4 with it's 4.2L V8? Black series AMG any model. SLS. Come on, those are legitimate halo cars that by your token should probably just plunk some average pedestrian fuel saving engine in. Not sure what point you're trying to make but it sounds like you just read automotive journalist articles and think that means everything when it comes to a car. Numbers aren't the whole story.

[phoenixbmwlife]

Originally Posted by stefan

Well I'm not a fanboy, so no, I don't see any need to "get over it". I have an idea in my head about what an M car should be, what I grew up wanting in my garage. And.. by the way.. the gap between the E92 M3, or the E46 m3 and the non M3 variants is quite significant with very few reused parts, quite unlike the 1M and M2. And it's not like an N55 is the perfect engine for an M2 or anything. It is 100% sales margins and economics for BMW. I find it odd that everyone on here defends that to the death. I guess Bimmerpost really is biased towards the newer BMWs and their marketing-driven design.

And as for your dismissal of other manufacturers. How about GM? The Camaro ZL1 and Z/28 variants. The Corvette ZR1. And Ford, with the GT500 and Boss 302 outperforming M models for a fraction of the price and drastically improving from their non SVT counterparts. Hell, take a look at the Focus ST which completely transforms the Focus into an amazing FWD hot hatch that blows the doors off the competition.

As for the Germans, what about the R8 V10? The RS4 with it's 4.2L V8? Black series AMG any model. SLS. Come on, those are legitimate halo cars that by your token should probably just plunk some average pedestrian fuel saving engine in. Not sure what point you're trying to make but it sounds like you just read automotive journalist articles and think that means everything when it comes to a car. Numbers aren't the whole story.

Can we get back on topic?

[Wilson]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

pretty idiotic isn't it? this is why 'car culture' has lost its way these days.....nobody talks about the way a car feels anymore....they just talk about 0-60 and HP statistics like a bunch of empty, shallow, material object worshippers. weak!

IEDEI saying 'my car may be slower than yours but at least it handles well' is a lame excuse for a slower car. The so called HP wars you talk of got us to where we are today, if it wasn't for manufactures continually trying to out perform each other we'd all be driving around in 50 HP jalopies.

All things being equal, that the M2, RS3, R400 and CLA / A 45 all handle beautifully, would you want the best / most potent engine as well, of course you would.

[bitcore]

Originally Posted by Bennu

Can we get back on topic?

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by Wilson

IEDEI saying 'my car may be slower than yours but at least it handles well' is a lame excuse for a slower car. The so called HP wars you talk of got us to where we are today, if it wasn't for manufactures continually trying to out perform each other we'd all be driving around in 50 HP jalopies.

All things being equal, that the M2, RS3, R400 and CLA / A 45 all handle beautifully, would you want the best / most potent engine as well, of course you would.

True, if it was all about handling, we'd be driving Toyota's GT86 (Scion FR-S in US).

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by Wilson

IEDEI saying 'my car may be slower than yours but at least it handles well' is a lame excuse for a slower car. The so called HP wars you talk of got us to where we are today, if it wasn't for manufactures continually trying to out perform each other we'd all be driving around in 50 HP jalopies.

All things being equal, that the M2, RS3, R400 and CLA / A 45 all handle beautifully, would you want the best / most potent engine as well, of course you would.

Honestly i'm not someone who values HP as much as other attributes (driveability, handling, braking, overall feel). I have 320hp in my current car and honestly feel that i'm not even able to use all of it most of the time. Do i enjoy the power? SURE...do i wish i had 450hp? no.

Older cars may have had significantly less power, but that guy you pass in the 1960s Alfa Romeo Coupe is going to be having waaaay more fun with his 110hp than you will be having in your 400hp electronic machine....that's for damn sure.

Ultimately driving enjoyment is what you want out of it. If power gets you off....then by all means you should look into muscle cars and those crazy 500+hp Camaros and Vettes. If you enjoy the balance and feel of the car....you don't need high-HP figures to find that enjoyment, IMO.

[ynguldyn]

European M2 will start production in November 2015. US version will start production in March 2016. The car will be produced until October 2018.

No xDrive at the moment (likely never).

Confirming N55B30T0 engine.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

European M2 will start production in November 2015. US version will start production in March 2016. The car will be produced until October 2018.

No xDrive at the moment (likely never).

Confirming N55B30T0 engine.

ugh. that probably times me out of the M2 as my lease ends in September 2015. March production start means no US deliveries til at least spring/summer 2016. That sucks. Thank you for the info, man! How concrete are these estimates?

F80 M3 here i come!

[antzcrashing]

Any confirmation or positive vibes on M2 gran coupe? Four doors is pretty key. If not used f80 m3 might be the way to go

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by ynguldyn

European M2 will start production in November 2015. US version will start production in March 2016. The car will be produced until October 2018.

No xDrive at the moment (likely never).

Confirming N55B30T0 engine.

Thanks for the info - this is a pretty decent timeline, but somewhat truncated in comparison to a normal M, no? Wasn't the E9X M3 produced longer than that?

The timing should work out for me to get one in the middle of 2017 - which is good news.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by antzcrashing

Any confirmation or positive vibes on M2 gran coupe? Four doors is pretty key. If not used f80 m3 might be the way to go

Wasn't there a convo some time back that BMW were not going to make the M2GC?

I might be misremembering...

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

Wasn't there a convo some time back that BMW were not going to make the M2GC?

I might be misremembering...

there's NO 'Gran Coupe' coming....which means there is no M2 Gran Coupe coming!

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

there's NO 'Gran Coupe' coming....which means there is no M2 Gran Coupe coming!

It will come...guaranteed. Audi is going to eat up the small sedan market with the new A3/S3/RS3 and Mercedes with the CLA/AMG/etc; BMW will have to have a 4-door in this size car (i.e. smaller than an E39 5-series which is what the F30 essentially is).

Just look at the 1st month of sales for the new A3 (which didn't even have a full month on the market). Audi year over year sales of the A4 were up about 1% in April *plus* they sold almost as many of the new A3; hence, they almost doubled their market share in the small sedan category.

[ynguldyn]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

It will come...guaranteed.

No.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

there's NO 'Gran Coupe' coming....which means there is no M2 Gran Coupe coming!

That's what I had thought I remembered reading - missed opportunity IMO...

[kyleb350]

Any idea if the M2 will have a color option or two specific to the model? I'd prefer if the M3/M4 choices didn't trickle down.

[antzcrashing]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

That's what I had thought I remembered reading - missed opportunity IMO...

They know it will eat 3 series sales (and therefore profits)

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by antzcrashing

They know it will eat 3 series sales (and therefore profits)

i don't think that's necessarily the problem. i think the problem is that BMW doesn't make a lot of money on the 1-series and now 2-series. In the 1-series, most of the underpinnings were shared with the E9X 3-series.....which meant that it was nearly as expensive to produce as the 3-series, but they couldn't charge as much which meant that their profit margins were low (this was explained to me by an industry consultant a few years ago.....specifically regarding how the 1-series sucked for BMW finances)

I am guessing since originally they were going to switch the 1-series over to a FWD format, they were only introducing the RWD 1-series/2-series (F20/F22) as a 'temporary' car until they got their FWD lineup sorted out for their intro model.

and here lies the problem.....the 2-series Active Tourer is likely the MAIN car they are really going to push for in the US and Euro markets. Don't be surprised if you end up seeing a 2-series Active Tourer-based SEDAN (4-door) that is FWD/AWD and the true competitor to the CLA and A3.

I do not think we will see a 2-series Gran Coupe......mainly as the market for RWD cars in the US is dwindling.....and it does not have the mass-market appeal like an AWD car does......unfortunately!

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by kyleb350

Any idea if the M2 will have a color option or two specific to the model? I'd prefer if the M3/M4 choices didn't trickle down.

This is a good question - there has been rumors of a "truer" orange, similar to the very nice photoshop that is on this thread somewhere - different than VO, which looks burnt in person to me. Nive color - just not really that orange.

Jerez Black would be hot on this car...I am hoping for that...

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

i don't think that's necessarily the problem. i think the problem is that BMW doesn't make a lot of money on the 1-series and now 2-series. In the 1-series, most of the underpinnings were shared with the E9X 3-series.....which meant that it was nearly as expensive to produce as the 3-series, but they couldn't charge as much which meant that their profit margins were low (this was explained to me by an industry consultant a few years ago.....specifically regarding how the 1-series sucked for BMW finances)

I am guessing since originally they were going to switch the 1-series over to a FWD format, they were only introducing the RWD 1-series/2-series (F20/F22) as a 'temporary' car until they got their FWD lineup sorted out for their intro model.

and here lies the problem.....the 2-series Active Tourer is likely the MAIN car they are really going to push for in the US and Euro markets. Don't be surprised if you end up seeing a 2-series Active Tourer-based SEDAN (4-door) that is FWD/AWD and the true competitor to the CLA and A3.

I do not think we will see a 2-series Gran Coupe......mainly as the market for RWD cars in the US is dwindling.....and it does not have the mass-market appeal like an AWD car does......unfortunately!

This is quite logical. If true....

We Americans are so dumb sometimes - oh yeah, I need AWD to drive over the leaves on my driveway. what a crock of shit...

To me, the quintessential nature of a BMW is a small, sporty RWD car. If the 3er truly becomes the smallest one you can get (which is a hilarious notion), then I really will have to look elsewhere. Just not interested in driving a boat on the road.

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

This is quite logical. If true....

We Americans are so dumb sometimes - oh yeah, I need AWD to drive over the leaves on my driveway. what a crock of shit...

To me, the quintessential nature of a BMW is a small, sporty RWD car. If the 3er truly becomes the smallest one you can get (which is a hilarious notion), then I really will have to look elsewhere. Just not interested in driving a boat on the road.

Alfa Romeo. Will have the only compact RWD sedan on the market (if this new plan works out of course).