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      10-28-2013, 02:22 PM   #45
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For the love of all that is holy, stop trying to fill a market gap and make something truly astonishing.


How about spending those financial resources to create a sub-4000 lb M5?
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      10-28-2013, 02:28 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
The lateness of the 2er does not concern because we have been here before with the 6er Gran Coupe. Establish the market first and watch others make their mistakes , then introduce something that is radically different with greater appeal.
There are far too many manufactures who think BMW over their own originality, that eventually someone has to show them how it's done.

An X7 is coming , we should expect first movement next year to indicate that it is coming. The reason it is coming because it will provide a basis for a Rolls-Royce Crossover which this picture shows the styling direction of the new car and not just a Range Rover facsimile.

An extended wheelbase will allow for extensive passenger space at the equivalent of a 7er with like the X5 optional third row of seating. The design outline allows for a more Touring esque rear less upright than the new X5 and reminiscent of the first generation X5 in which the first generation X7 proposal was simply an extended X5 with lights similar to first E65 7er.

Since the rear section of the X7 will not hinder the third row as it will be further forward allowing a more dramatic sloping roof and raked tailgate which will integrate a rising glasshouse.
New X- family cues will include joint headlights to grille , with the kidney being much more wider to signify its status, three-dimensional character and surface lines that will broaden the wheel arches.

The RR will be a strict five or four seater , allowing for that space to accommodate the passenger area in pure luxury.
The styling will be typical of RR with a dominating Greek-Temple grille at the front, instead of a full hatch area as in the X7 the RR will receive a short deck like a sedan.

And due to advances in lighting technology X7 like the 7er will use LED and optional Laselight technology to implement slimmer light units front and rear. Also expected to be shared with the RR.

The interior will be straight from the upcoming 7er of surfaces and minimalism , with flat like surfaces as previewed on the BMW i8 sports car , although not identical as the 7er but in a more progressive form of the new BMW X5. Technology for driving assistance and Connectivity will be shared with the new 7er. The Rolls-Royce will have a more upright looking interior and a higher central console.

Both cars will share the same matrix as the 7er including the mix of material technology where the heaviest areas in the chassis will be formed using CFRP in amongst aluminium , lightened steel and magnesium. The Drivetrain will be shared with the RR being developed to drive and handle differently to the X7 although they are essentially , technically the same.
Both will use V12s for the flagship models with the RR expected from the Wraith.

As far as proposals stand for BMW. The projection dates confirm the new 7er for 2015 , additional variant - Coupe? For 2016 and X7 for 2017.


Rolls-Royce are expected to lead the ultimate luxury momentum with an all new Rolls-Royce Phantom providing an evolutionary but rounder look to the current car. But is not just an enlarged Ghost. Again Phantom will again be a series of models.
But Phantom is not going to be at the top. A more intimate Roadster based on the Phantom with a price tag to match its status.
Do you think the 6GC has sold as well as it should be / could be? I can speak on the U.S. market - the CLS still dominates and the A7 has done better than expected while the GC tends to attract the same customers as the 6, cannibalizing sales. Perhaps it is stealing a few sales from the competition, but not as many as BMW wanted... It will be the same for the 2GC - a superior car that won't sell because everyone would have purchased CLAs and moved on to the next sales trend, whatever it may be.

I'm very happy to hear about the X7 - Mercedes sells upwards of 20,000 GLs in the U.S. every year (that's 70% of the total BMW 5-Series volume - a huge amount) at an average transaction price of over $80k. BMW has lost a LOT of money by not having a competitor. I'm not going to comment on the RR model, but I'll say that 2017 for the X7 is, again, too late.

With regard to BMW historically being slow, they are as of the past 15 years at least, with the exception being the X5. Think about the 60s - 70s when the "New Class" came out. Those cars pushed boundaries and appealed to people universally, and while BMW is drawing comparison to the new 2-series, it is far too technical, too complex, and too expensive (when adjusting for inflation) to really be a 2002 heir. And the thought of a simple, light, practical, and affordable entry to the BMW family is not merely an enthusiast's wet dream - it has the potential for massive sales and wide market appeal. Not something stripped and hardcore - just a simple, RWD, three-box coupe, sedan, and convertible line starting in the mid-to-high $20k to steal sales from almost all the mainstream manufacturers not to mention Mercedes and Audi.
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      10-28-2013, 02:32 PM   #47
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Looks like an expensive dodge magnum to me lol



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      10-28-2013, 02:40 PM   #48
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The cars that people think resemble others cars to me is just amazing. Really? You think that RR looks like a Dodge Magnum? I agree both have four doors, and four wheels with a (somewhat) similar shape, but at some point, you can't really re-invent the wheel when it comes to car sizes / shapes.
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      10-28-2013, 02:41 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregD View Post
Coupé/GC/cab are even numbers, sedan/touring/GT are uneven numbers.

I see some real potential in this 2 GC, I somewhat like the styling of the new CLA but the rear is hideous.
The 2 should have it all - M235i GC!
What is an uneven number? Sounds odd to me.
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      10-28-2013, 02:48 PM   #50
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m2 gc! shutupandtakemymoney.jpg
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      10-28-2013, 02:53 PM   #51
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Build it! It should be nearly identical (in most cases) to the size of my e46 ZHP. I'm driving a 10 year old BMW, in part, because I don't need "class leading" rear leg room. 3er (and 4er) are too big!

If you build it, it will sell! Maybe make only a M235i version to keep it from cannabalising 3er sells? No need for xi or lower end 228i models IMO.

I don't understand how the 5GT and 3GT make business sense, but this car is questionable? LMAO
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      10-28-2013, 03:02 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilstave
it's just a 3 series! so stupid
Modern day e36!!
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      10-28-2013, 03:23 PM   #53
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Why is everyone worried about BMW loosing sales to CLA and A3 sedan due to the lack of a 4 door coupe /sedan where you could also see the other side of the medal: Merc and Audi will loose sales as they don't offer a coupe (also no one wants shitty FWD). Everbody looking for a small sports coupe will have to go 2 series. I see it rather as an USP than as a disadvantage, cause typically coupe = more sporty.

Besides that a 2GC would rock
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      10-28-2013, 03:29 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
This GC stuff just doesn't make any sense to me at all.
$$$$$$$$

BMW just gone insane, kill M3 and make it M4 and now introduce GC!!!! I do see a C63 AMG 507 in my future now.
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      10-28-2013, 03:36 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mako View Post
2 series GC or 1 series sedan, don't care what they call it, but its needed. Perfect car for a family with infants/toddlers who don't need tons of rear passenger room.

..As if a 3-Series has TONS of rear passenger room. And infants and toddlers don't stay infants and toddlers for long, so they will outgrow that small car.
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      10-28-2013, 03:44 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
..As if a 3-Series has TONS of rear passenger room. And infants and toddlers don't stay infants and toddlers for long, so they will outgrow that small car.
Maybe you should buy cars as often as you buy clothes for your children

I honestly think BMW has gone ludicrous with how many offerings there are now. I wouldn't be surprised if in 4-5 years BMW shaves a couple models off their lists. Have 1 or 2 niche cars but stop trying to make everyone happy, it just doesn't work.
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      10-28-2013, 03:44 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Where are those "record sales" coming from (..rhetorical)? I'd bet from the same cars that they've always sold, and sold well......not necessarily all of these "new" models. We all saw how that 5 Series GT did.....er...didn't do.

In either case, I suppose some of the new models will appeal to some people.
Well apparently I was correct in the first place about knowing the market. In the interest of not showing you up completely, I suggest you do your own research. I bet if you had, you wouldnt have replied.

I will agree with you on one point.. The 5 series GT indeed blew chunks. .....
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      10-28-2013, 03:48 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen5242 View Post
I am not sure why you just don't call the 4 door version the new 1 series?
Slow. Clap.

Good call!
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      10-28-2013, 03:48 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Well apparently I was correct in the first place about knowing the market. you should do your own research. I bet if you had, you wouldnt have replied, as you would see how silly you sound.

Look at the sales of completely new models such as the X1 and X6.

I will agree with you on one point.. The 5 series GT indeed blew chunks. .....

Dude...the "I'd bet" was purely speculative. I don't sit around and research ALL aspects of the market because, frankly, I don't care that much about how many units were sold. My comment about the market was referring to products that other manufacturers are producing. Relax!!!! The X1 and X6 make sense to me (...especially considering the increase in size for the X3 and X5). Even the 6GC makes a tad bit of sense because of the CLS. These smaller "GC's" don't.

...and I'm sure that the volume 3-Series is what really keeps BMW afloat.
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      10-28-2013, 03:52 PM   #60
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As much as I want a 2GC, I'm with BMW. I'm already considering either the M235i or 335i M-sport depending on dealer incentives when the time comes. If they have 2GC, without a doubt I will get the 2GC. Would 2GC effect the sales of the 3 series? Hell yes.
The 3 is BMW's hallmark car. BMW should think twice before hurting the sales of their best product.
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      10-28-2013, 03:54 PM   #61
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Me want.
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      10-28-2013, 03:59 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bavarian19 View Post
For the love of all that is holy, stop trying to fill a market gap and make something truly astonishing.


How about spending those financial resources to create a sub-4000 lb M5?
THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS

This model fragmentation is becoming absolutely ridiculous.
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      10-28-2013, 04:03 PM   #63
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already the new 2 series Coupe is only marginally less expensive than a 3er. I cannot envision who would price/wise opt for this .
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      10-28-2013, 04:09 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinus
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
The lateness of the 2er does not concern because we have been here before with the 6er Gran Coupe. Establish the market first and watch others make their mistakes , then introduce something that is radically different with greater appeal.
There are far too many manufactures who think BMW over their own originality, that eventually someone has to show them how it's done.

An X7 is coming , we should expect first movement next year to indicate that it is coming. The reason it is coming because it will provide a basis for a Rolls-Royce Crossover which this picture shows the styling direction of the new car and not just a Range Rover facsimile.

An extended wheelbase will allow for extensive passenger space at the equivalent of a 7er with like the X5 optional third row of seating. The design outline allows for a more Touring esque rear less upright than the new X5 and reminiscent of the first generation X5 in which the first generation X7 proposal was simply an extended X5 with lights similar to first E65 7er.

Since the rear section of the X7 will not hinder the third row as it will be further forward allowing a more dramatic sloping roof and raked tailgate which will integrate a rising glasshouse.
New X- family cues will include joint headlights to grille , with the kidney being much more wider to signify its status, three-dimensional character and surface lines that will broaden the wheel arches.

The RR will be a strict five or four seater , allowing for that space to accommodate the passenger area in pure luxury.
The styling will be typical of RR with a dominating Greek-Temple grille at the front, instead of a full hatch area as in the X7 the RR will receive a short deck like a sedan.

And due to advances in lighting technology X7 like the 7er will use LED and optional Laselight technology to implement slimmer light units front and rear. Also expected to be shared with the RR.

The interior will be straight from the upcoming 7er of surfaces and minimalism , with flat like surfaces as previewed on the BMW i8 sports car , although not identical as the 7er but in a more progressive form of the new BMW X5. Technology for driving assistance and Connectivity will be shared with the new 7er. The Rolls-Royce will have a more upright looking interior and a higher central console.

Both cars will share the same matrix as the 7er including the mix of material technology where the heaviest areas in the chassis will be formed using CFRP in amongst aluminium , lightened steel and magnesium. The Drivetrain will be shared with the RR being developed to drive and handle differently to the X7 although they are essentially , technically the same.
Both will use V12s for the flagship models with the RR expected from the Wraith.

As far as proposals stand for BMW. The projection dates confirm the new 7er for 2015 , additional variant - Coupe? For 2016 and X7 for 2017.


Rolls-Royce are expected to lead the ultimate luxury momentum with an all new Rolls-Royce Phantom providing an evolutionary but rounder look to the current car. But is not just an enlarged Ghost. Again Phantom will again be a series of models.
But Phantom is not going to be at the top. A more intimate Roadster based on the Phantom with a price tag to match its status.
SCOTT26, what about 2 SERIES GRAN SPORT TOURER. Is there a chance we'll see it on the streets. The idea seemed interesting .
+1 or a shooting brake.
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      10-28-2013, 05:04 PM   #65
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Wow

Jackpot! Looks absolutely perfect and is a great CLA rival.
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      10-28-2013, 05:56 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
A 4 door model of the 2 Series has been conceived as part of an expansive compact model strategy. And make no mistake BMW are interested in such a model because it adds consistency to the Gran Coupe series and would be a successful profit unit as well as establishing a RWD narrative for this exciting new segment.

The car is viable because of the modular architecture within the platform.

The car won't appear tomorrow. At least we are looking at a possible mid-late 2015 introduction. BMW need to assess the reaction regarding the CLA and A3 Sedan in regards to how they affect the next step ie C-Klasse and A4 especially in regards to upcoming replacements.

Another factor is at best the car will be a four seater and rear passenger leg room will not be class leading. But as some have said the potential for a four dr is high given the lukewarm reaction to the CLA et all but BMW are confident that the Coupe could hold the segment until a Gran Coupe model enters the market as it delivers on every level where a BMW is expected to and confirms to what this segment actually wants but is not being given.

Edit: The following is just a speculative render by a digital artist.

very nice render. wow looks better than the coupe
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