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      10-28-2013, 12:48 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregD View Post
Coupé/GC/cab are even numbers, sedan/touring/GT are uneven numbers.

I see some real potential in this 2 GC, I somewhat like the styling of the new CLA but the rear is hideous.
The 2 should have it all - M235i GC!
Rear is ugly is correct but thats not the elephant in the room... to me that goes to the fact that its FWD... which immediately scratches it off my list. period.

Sad to hear BMW is headed in this direction but whatever, so long as the 2,3,4,5 still exist...as RWD, I'm happy...
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      10-28-2013, 12:55 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilstave View Post
it's just a 3 series! so stupid
Well it's smaller than the existing 3 series, that's why I said why don't they just call it a 1 series.

So they will have a 4 door 1 series, then a 2 series, costing more than a 4 door 1 series, and then they will put 2 more doors on the 2 series to make it a 4 door, but will call it a Grand Coupe instead of a 1 series sedan and charge even more money. 4 doors to 2 doors back to 4 doors all the while raising the price along the way. Great marketing I guess?
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      10-28-2013, 12:58 PM   #25
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Fingers still crossed for the M2GC, so much potential.
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      10-28-2013, 12:59 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pz619 View Post
Not quite. But if they made a 4 series GC, you could essentially call that a restyled 3 series.
But be able to charge a lot more for it than the 3 series.
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      10-28-2013, 01:06 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
A 4 door model of the 2 Series has been conceived as part of an expansive compact model strategy. And make no mistake BMW are interested in such a model because it adds consistency to the Gran Coupe series and would be a successful profit unit as well as establishing a RWD narrative for this exciting new segment.

The car is viable because of the modular architecture within the platform.

The car won't appear tomorrow. At least we are looking at a possible mid-late 2015 introduction. BMW need to assess the reaction regarding the CLA and A3 Sedan in regards to how they affect the next step ie C-Klasse and A4 especially in regards to upcoming replacements.

Another factor is at best the car will be a four seater and rear passenger leg room will not be class leading. But as some have said the potential for a four dr is high given the lukewarm reaction to the CLA et all but BMW are confident that the Coupe could hold the segment until a Gran Coupe model enters the market as it delivers on every level where a BMW is expected to and confirms to what this segment actually wants but is not being given.

Edit: The following is just a speculative render by a digital artist.

Are these comments focused on a global perspective because it seems that the reaction to the CLA in the US has been very positive. Hopefully the 2 GC will come soon
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      10-28-2013, 01:09 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
This GC stuff just doesn't make any sense to me at all.
To settle your confusion the reason why they are called Gran Coupes is because even though they have 4 doors they have a Coupe roof line. I hope that makes sense to you.
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      10-28-2013, 01:12 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TitanSteel View Post
Unfortunately, late-2015 is too late. Even if it is a million times better than the CLA / A3, BMW will be too late to the party. Honestly, this is no surprise as BMW is historically slow and overly conservative with product introductions that seem to be the most no-brainer. Not having a full 2-series stable of cars to bring to market was a massive mistake, and it will hurt the company.

As is not having an X7, nor a competitor to the fast-selling Infiniti JX (QX60), nor a Mercedes SL competitor, nor a competitive small sportscar...
The lateness of the 2er does not concern because we have been here before with the 6er Gran Coupe. Establish the market first and watch others make their mistakes , then introduce something that is radically different with greater appeal.
There are far too many manufactures who think BMW over their own originality, that eventually someone has to show them how it's done.

An X7 is coming , we should expect first movement next year to indicate that it is coming. The reason it is coming because it will provide a basis for a Rolls-Royce Crossover which this picture shows the styling direction of the new car and not just a Range Rover facsimile.

An extended wheelbase will allow for extensive passenger space at the equivalent of a 7er with like the X5 optional third row of seating. The design outline allows for a more Touring esque rear less upright than the new X5 and reminiscent of the first generation X5 in which the first generation X7 proposal was simply an extended X5 with lights similar to first E65 7er.

Since the rear section of the X7 will not hinder the third row as it will be further forward allowing a more dramatic sloping roof and raked tailgate which will integrate a rising glasshouse.
New X- family cues will include joint headlights to grille , with the kidney being much more wider to signify its status, three-dimensional character and surface lines that will broaden the wheel arches.

The RR will be a strict five or four seater , allowing for that space to accommodate the passenger area in pure luxury.
The styling will be typical of RR with a dominating Greek-Temple grille at the front, instead of a full hatch area as in the X7 the RR will receive a short deck like a sedan.

And due to advances in lighting technology X7 like the 7er will use LED and optional Laselight technology to implement slimmer light units front and rear. Also expected to be shared with the RR.

The interior will be straight from the upcoming 7er of surfaces and minimalism , with flat like surfaces as previewed on the BMW i8 sports car , although not identical as the 7er but in a more progressive form of the new BMW X5. Technology for driving assistance and Connectivity will be shared with the new 7er. The Rolls-Royce will have a more upright looking interior and a higher central console.

Both cars will share the same matrix as the 7er including the mix of material technology where the heaviest areas in the chassis will be formed using CFRP in amongst aluminium , lightened steel and magnesium. The Drivetrain will be shared with the RR being developed to drive and handle differently to the X7 although they are essentially , technically the same.
Both will use V12s for the flagship models with the RR expected from the Wraith.

As far as proposals stand for BMW. The projection dates confirm the new 7er for 2015 , additional variant - Coupe? For 2016 and X7 for 2017.


Rolls-Royce are expected to lead the ultimate luxury momentum with an all new Rolls-Royce Phantom providing an evolutionary but rounder look to the current car. But is not just an enlarged Ghost. Again Phantom will again be a series of models.
But Phantom is not going to be at the top. A more intimate Roadster based on the Phantom with a price tag to match its status.
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      10-28-2013, 01:14 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMoutlaW View Post
To settle your confusion the reason why they are called Grand Coupes is because even though they have 4 doors they have a Coupe roof line. I hope that makes sense to you.
You're missing my point. I understand all of that. I guess I should be more clear.....


....sometimes I feel like less is more.
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      10-28-2013, 01:26 PM   #31
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they would sell all of them...

i would love to see 4 door versions of M235i / M2
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      10-28-2013, 01:30 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
The lateness of the 2er does not concern because we have been here before with the 6er Gran Coupe. Establish the market first and watch others make their mistakes , then introduce something that is radically different with greater appeal.
There are far too many manufactures who think BMW over their own originality, that eventually someone has to show them how it's done.

An X7 is coming , we should expect first movement next year to indicate that it is coming. The reason it is coming because it will provide a basis for a Rolls-Royce Crossover which this picture shows the styling direction of the new car and not just a Range Rover facsimile.

An extended wheelbase will allow for extensive passenger space at the equivalent of a 7er with like the X5 optional third row of seating. The design outline allows for a more Touring esque rear less upright than the new X5 and reminiscent of the first generation X5 in which the first generation X7 proposal was simply an extended X5 with lights similar to first E65 7er.

Since the rear section of the X7 will not hinder the third row as it will be further forward allowing a more dramatic sloping roof and raked tailgate which will integrate a rising glasshouse.
New X- family cues will include joint headlights to grille , with the kidney being much more wider to signify its status, three-dimensional character and surface lines that will broaden the wheel arches.

The RR will be a strict five or four seater , allowing for that space to accommodate the passenger area in pure luxury.
The styling will be typical of RR with a dominating Greek-Temple grille at the front, instead of a full hatch area as in the X7 the RR will receive a short deck like a sedan.

And due to advances in lighting technology X7 like the 7er will use LED and optional Laselight technology to implement slimmer light units front and rear. Also expected to be shared with the RR.

The interior will be straight from the upcoming 7er of surfaces and minimalism , with flat like surfaces as previewed on the BMW i8 sports car , although not identical as the 7er but in a more progressive form of the new BMW X5. Technology for driving assistance and Connectivity will be shared with the new 7er. The Rolls-Royce will have a more upright looking interior and a higher central console.

Both cars will share the same matrix as the 7er including the mix of material technology where the heaviest areas in the chassis will be formed using CFRP in amongst aluminium , lightened steel and magnesium. The Drivetrain will be shared with the RR being developed to drive and handle differently to the X7 although they are essentially , technically the same.
Both will use V12s for the flagship models with the RR expected from the Wraith.

As far as proposals stand for BMW. The projection dates confirm the new 7er for 2015 , additional variant - Coupe? For 2016 and X7 for 2017.


Rolls-Royce are expected to lead the ultimate luxury momentum with an all new Rolls-Royce Phantom providing an evolutionary but rounder look to the current car. But is not just an enlarged Ghost. Again Phantom will again be a series of models.
But Phantom is not going to be at the top. A more intimate Roadster based on the Phantom with a price tag to match its status.
SCOTT26, what about 2 SERIES GRAN SPORT TOURER. Is there a chance we'll see it on the streets. The idea seemed interesting .
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      10-28-2013, 01:30 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
You're missing my point. I understand all of that. I guess I should be more clear.....


....sometimes I feel like less is more.
I'm sorry I guess I didn't understand your point. And could you elaborate on why you feel like less is more.
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      10-28-2013, 01:31 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen5242 View Post
Well it's smaller than the existing 3 series, that's why I said why don't they just call it a 1 series.

So they will have a 4 door 1 series, then a 2 series, costing more than a 4 door 1 series, and then they will put 2 more doors on the 2 series to make it a 4 door, but will call it a Gran Coupe instead of a 1 series sedan and charge even more money. 4 doors to 2 doors back to 4 doors all the while raising the price along the way. Great marketing I guess?
You pretty much answered your own question.
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      10-28-2013, 01:32 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
The lateness of the 2er does not concern because we have been here before with the 6er Gran Coupe. Establish the market first and watch others make their mistakes , then introduce something that is radically different with greater appeal.
There are far too many manufactures who think BMW over their own originality, that eventually someone has to show them how it's done.

An X7 is coming , we should expect first movement next year to indicate that it is coming. The reason it is coming because it will provide a basis for a Rolls-Royce Crossover which this picture shows the styling direction of the new car and not just a Range Rover facsimile.

An extended wheelbase will allow for extensive passenger space at the equivalent of a 7er with like the X5 optional third row of seating. The design outline allows for a more Touring esque rear less upright than the new X5 and reminiscent of the first generation X5 in which the first generation X7 proposal was simply an extended X5 with lights similar to first E65 7er.

Since the rear section of the X7 will not hinder the third row as it will be further forward allowing a more dramatic sloping roof and raked tailgate which will integrate a rising glasshouse.
New X- family cues will include joint headlights to grille , with the kidney being much more wider to signify its status, three-dimensional character and surface lines that will broaden the wheel arches.

The RR will be a strict five or four seater , allowing for that space to accommodate the passenger area in pure luxury.
The styling will be typical of RR with a dominating Greek-Temple grille at the front, instead of a full hatch area as in the X7 the RR will receive a short deck like a sedan.

And due to advances in lighting technology X7 like the 7er will use LED and optional Laselight technology to implement slimmer light units front and rear. Also expected to be shared with the RR.

The interior will be straight from the upcoming 7er of surfaces and minimalism , with flat like surfaces as previewed on the BMW i8 sports car , although not identical as the 7er but in a more progressive form of the new BMW X5. Technology for driving assistance and Connectivity will be shared with the new 7er. The Rolls-Royce will have a more upright looking interior and a higher central console.

Both cars will share the same matrix as the 7er including the mix of material technology where the heaviest areas in the chassis will be formed using CFRP in amongst aluminium , lightened steel and magnesium. The Drivetrain will be shared with the RR being developed to drive and handle differently to the X7 although they are essentially , technically the same.
Both will use V12s for the flagship models with the RR expected from the Wraith.

As far as proposals stand for BMW. The projection dates confirm the new 7er for 2015 , additional variant - Coupe? For 2016 and X7 for 2017.


Rolls-Royce are expected to lead the ultimate luxury momentum with an all new Rolls-Royce Phantom providing an evolutionary but rounder look to the current car. But is not just an enlarged Ghost. Again Phantom will again be a series of models.
But Phantom is not going to be at the top. A more intimate Roadster based on the Phantom with a price tag to match its status.
X7 coming? well that's some great news! also agree with you scott on BMW probing the competition and strike after they make their mistakes. after all BMW is also the ultimate marketing machine as some journalist said some time ago... besides, many things can be said about BMW but "historically slow and overly conservative" most definitely isn't one of them.
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      10-28-2013, 01:35 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMoutlaW View Post
I'm sorry I guess I didn't understand your point. And could you elaborate on why you feel like less is more.
I apologize in advance if I came across argumentative (..if, indeed you perceived it that way). That isn't/wasn't my intention.


What I essentially mean is that BMW now has so many cars (..with increasingly silly nomenclature) that it almost feels like the brand is saturated.
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      10-28-2013, 01:36 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Stop assuming! I'm very aware of the marketplace, and I really don't care about what every other manufacturer is doing. I think all of this GC stuff is nonsense. My personal opinion. Your mileage may vary!
indeed... that sounds like a YOU problem....
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      10-28-2013, 01:39 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
indeed... that sounds like a YOU problem....
...and you're absolutely right, much like every other complaint/criticism that we have as individuals.
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      10-28-2013, 01:40 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
I apologize in advance if I came across argumentative (..if, indeed you perceived it that way). That isn't/wasn't my intention.


What I essentially mean is that BMW now has so many cars (..with increasingly silly nomenclature) that it almost feels like the brand is saturated.

does record sales = saturation? or... does it = giving many varied types of customers the exact vehicle that they want?

Personally.. I am not worried about saturation... Undersaturation.. overstaturation... Too many models.. too few models.. too many turbos... not enough normally aspirated.. too many M badges... too much M hype. that's all too high maintenance for me!

It's all very simple.
1- Are they building or planning to build the car I want to buy.
2- Do they have the money and resources to make the car I want.
3- do they have the ability to make the car I want perform the way I want.

I only can own a few vehicles at a time..... and it doesnt matter to me if they build 15 models I am not interested in as long as they make the one or two that I AM interested in.
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Last edited by M3 Adjuster; 10-28-2013 at 01:45 PM.
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      10-28-2013, 01:49 PM   #40
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This is getting ridiculous and stupid.
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      10-28-2013, 01:52 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
does record sales = saturation? or... does it = giving many varied types of customers the exact vehicle that they want?

Personally.. I am not worried about saturation... Undersaturation.. overstaturation... Too many models.. too few models.. too many turbos... not enough normally aspirated.. too many M badges... too much M hype.

It's all very simple. Are they building or planning to build the car I want to buy. I only can own a few vehicles at a time..... and it doesnt matter to me if they build 15 models I am not interested in as long as they make the one or two that I AM interested in.

Where are those "record sales" coming from (..rhetorical)? I'd bet from the same cars that they've always sold, and sold well......not necessarily all of these "new" models. We all saw how that 5 Series GT did.....er...didn't do.

In either case, I suppose some of the new models will appeal to some people.
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      10-28-2013, 01:54 PM   #42
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2 series GC or 1 series sedan, don't care what they call it, but its needed. Perfect car for a family with infants/toddlers who don't need tons of rear passenger room.

2015 is a shame as the A3 and CLA are out this year.

I do have to say the interior on the 2 series looks MUCH better than the A3 and CLA, especially the CLA with its horrible looking Navigation screen (looks like an ipad mini was just stuck on the dash).

I think a 2 GC would cost a bit more, but give people an option, spend $4K more and get free maintenance and nicer interior...
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      10-28-2013, 02:04 PM   #43
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Wow, that looks delicious!
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      10-28-2013, 02:07 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMoutlaW View Post
To settle your confusion the reason why they are called Grand Coupes is because even though they have 4 doors they have a Coupe roof line. I hope that makes sense to you.
But the definition of coupe has nothing to do with lines,it has to do with doors, and seating.
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