[midwest 340xi 6sp]

On one hand you make a lot of sense (Ive owned a ton of "X" vehicles for the very reasons you cite).

On the other hand, these cars are built and sold in Europe which happens to have plenty of winter too. AWD aint for everyone - that we can all agree on...But choices are good and Xdrive sells in the snow belt like crazy.

Originally Posted by skunkd

You guys seriously have major issues if you are buying a 2 door coupe or sedan for winter driving conditions. I understand not everyone can afford more than one vehicle or wants two or more. But get a crossover or SUV if all you want to talk about is traction in the winter. You shouldn't even be looking at cars. Because ground clearance and larger tires for potholes and poor roads are also issues that AWD on a Bmw coupe does not address.


AMG is not and will never be ///M. AMG's drive like minivans compared to the respective BMW counterparts. They are FAST grocery getters. Also, Audi has had quattro on all S and RS class cars since the beginning of time. All the reviews of the AMG were meh... understeer, no fun but quick.

[ska///235i]

Why not save the money and get the new STI if you want AWD

[BeemerX1]

Go test all of them!
Pro and contra are for many people different.

I would love a M235xi AT for daily driving. If it was for toy car (read: free stress-less sunny moments where I choose my location to go) a M235i MT would be the choice.

Keep in mind a MT could be tuned higher since it could handle more extra torque then a AT.

[Kayevman]

[QUOTE=Midwest X6;16351812]

Originally Posted by skunkd

Give me a call when the M division starts making AWD cars. The sky will fall before that happens. Because AWD cannot and will not ever be the ultimate driving experience.

It's just a matter of when, not if

Did you get a call when BMW started turbocharging M cars?

[mmmmm235i]

I think AWD is highly beneficial for winter driving but I agree with what others have said about not wanting it on a 235. My e90 328xi was great through some bad winters in NY but wasn't nearly as fun (I notice the difference and definitely don't fall into the 99th percentile of all drivers). It is a small car that is meant to be toss able and nimble. I didn't buy this car to take it on ski trips, I'll let someone else drive. Iam interested to see if this information is correct about the x-drive suspension because that was always the biggest drawback. It's ridiculous that previously generation xi's w/ sport package got the seats, but no suspension.

[ErikP]

I have an M23i xdrive auto & drive in the great white north. It is a daily driver that my wife also drives. My wife loves xdrive, but I doubt that I would get it again. It does have good acceleration in snow (it also has Hakkapeliitta's on it) but the additional front end weight means that the front end plows when cornering in snow. Having said that I no longer get stuck in my driveway or hospital parking lot like I did with my 330i 6MT with Blizzaks.

Auto is another story. I've never owned an auto before & it is slightly boring, but nail it in sport or sport+ & it is a joy. Paddle shifters do give some control but I'm still ambivalent.

[midwest 340xi 6sp]

Originally Posted by skunkd

A Give me a call when the M division starts making AWD cars. The sky will fall before that happens. Because AWD cannot and will not ever be the ultimate driving experience.

Better post yer phone # - M Division is about to produce AWD M5/M6

[335BOY]

Originally Posted by ska///235i

Ppl always think awd gives better traction lol...its the tires that give traction

Here in New England winter I see more AWD cars end up in the ditch cuz the drivers think they're invincible

It because most of them are on A/S tires. To think that awd doesn't provide way more traction is just ridiculous.

[335BOY]

Originally Posted by ska///235i

Really? Im an average driver I can sure tell the difference in AWD and RWD in daily driving

How? What difference can you tell in normal city driving?

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by 335BOY

It because most of them are on A/S tires. To think that awd doesn't provide way more traction is just ridiculous.

Traction occurs at the tire contact patch. It doesn't matter if one, two, three, or four wheels are powered. No traction occurs in the drive system. Yes, the use of all season tires yields low traction in winter which can result in a less traction than a rear wheel drive vehicle on winter tires.

[335BOY]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Traction occurs at the tire contact patch. It doesn't matter if one, two, three, or four wheels are powered. No traction occurs in the drive system. Yes, the use of all season tires yields low traction in winter which can result in a less traction than a rear wheel drive vehicle on winter tires.

What does that mean ? Am I wrong?

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by 335BOY

What does that mean ? Am I wrong?

Perhaps it's semantics. AWD with winter tires is the most effective approach to winter. However, the tires provide the traction. AWD just gives two more wheels a chance to find traction to move the car forward. The difference of AWD is moderate. The tires make the vast majority of the difference.

[ska///235i]

Maybe we're going off topic?

Are we discussing awd vs rwd for winter driving only? Or we discussinf Awd/rwd which on is more fun to drive?

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by ska///235i

Maybe we're going off topic?

Are we discussing awd vs rwd for winter driving only? Or we discussinf Awd/rwd which on is more fun to drive?

Didn't think there was any remaining question on rwd being more fun to drive!
Better steering feel and less understeer.

[Kidu]

I would get RWD with snow tires and 6MT. Max fun in both weathers. I HAVE that and having driven in snow, its absolutely fine.

[ABPReader]

.

[335BOY]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Perhaps it's semantics. AWD with winter tires is the most effective approach to winter. However, the tires provide the traction. AWD just gives two more wheels a chance to find traction to move the car forward. The difference of AWD is moderate. The tires make the vast majority of the difference.

Unbelievable.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by 335BOY

Unbelievable.

What part is causing the concern?

[Mark's M]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

What part is causing the concern?

With respect, these RWD vs AWD discussions ALWAYS end up talking about winter driving and a few people, me included, are really, really tired of it. AWD has it's benefits in normal weather which includes driving in the wet.

This ridiculous debate needs to end. Those with M235's in AWD format are just as enthusiastic about the performance of their cars (rightfully so, it's a blast) as those with the RWD version. Not everyone who bought the xDrive version of the M235 lives in permanent winter conditions, some of them don't see snow at all. So please, no more automatic "default to winter tire discussions" for this car, it's getting very lame IMHO.

[335BOY]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

What part is causing the concern?

Just read my question then your answer. Wow.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Mark's M

With respect, these RWD vs AWD discussions ALWAYS end up talking about winter driving and a few people, me included, are really, really tired of it. AWD has it's benefits in normal weather which includes driving in the wet.

This ridiculous debate needs to end. Those with M235's in AWD format are just as enthusiastic about the performance of their cars (rightfully so, it's a blast) as those with the RWD version. Not everyone who bought the xDrive version of the M235 lives in permanent winter conditions, some of them don't see snow at all. So please, no more automatic "default to winter tire discussions" for this car, it's getting very lame IMHO.

I sense the indignation, but don't understand it in this thread. My comments were made recently to correct a simple misstatement of fact. No drive system, neither two nor four wheel, generates traction, and it had been posted to the contrary earlier. Traction occurs at the ground and is a function of the tires interacting with the surface. That is not a technical detail nor word game. Understanding this leads to being able to make informed decisions about buying vehicles and tires. Everyone can be just as enthusiastic as they wish and we all hope everyone enjoys their cars. The debate can easily end when everyone buys what they want, but doesn't try to mis-state facts.

BTW, in our corporate database I just checked, here are the top 5 U.S. states in descending order for all wheel drive intention for the next car purchased (excluding pickup trucks) n=~92,000:

1) New York
2) Michigan
3) Ohio
4) New Jersey
5) Wisconsin

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by 335BOY

What does that mean ? Am I wrong?

Originally Posted by 335BOY

Just read my question then your answer. Wow.

Respectfully, yes it does. As noted in the explanation above, asserting AWD has more (or any) traction is just as wrong as suggesting rear wheel drive has less or (or any) traction. Drive systems don't have traction.Tires do.