[DSTR]

Originally Posted by RingMeister01

I agree. I view the car as kind of pointless. To expensive to beat on a track and not as competent or beastly on the street as say a McLaren would be.

Those with the means to easily afford and track them do not feel as you do. For one reason - they are great track cars and worth the expense.

[vantagesc]

Quite a few GT3 owners track regularly and that car is $50k more expensive and more brutal on consumables due to the speed of the car. Just depends on whether you can afford it and find it worth it.

That said, I would want to keep the GT4's paint nice by driving it more on the street than track. It has enough usability to be used as a road car.

[Groundpilot]

We see lots of GT3s on the track because thats what they are made for. GT3=street legal race car. So yeah, obviously who ever buys these cars can afford them, and use them as they should. Other than GT3, there are very few $150K, or even $100K street cars that are tracked regularly

[Artemis]

I want this 'die cast'. "Scale 1:1".

Source: http://www.gtspirit.com/2015/04/24/p...sized-toy-car/





I guess it's a tongue-in-cheek hint of the PR folks at Porsche to the Porsche GT3 RS design that got leaked because of the early release of a die cast.
(see: http://blog.caranddriver.com/toy-giv...die-cast-form/).

[bdaddylo]

Rode in my friend's new GT4 over the weekend. If I could afford a $100k track car this would be it. He has the full bucket seats (aka race seats) which doesn't make it an ideal daily driver. The ride is firm and yet dampened enough to make it comfortable for street driving even with the 20" wheels. Kudos to Porsche for making such a great car. I hope BMW is paying attention.

[JTO24]

Originally Posted by bdaddylo

Rode in my friend's new GT4 over the weekend. If I could afford a $100k track car this would be it. He has the full bucket seats (aka race seats) which doesn't make it an ideal daily driver. The ride is firm and yet dampened enough to make it comfortable for street driving even with the 20" wheels. Kudos to Porsche for making such a great car. I hope BMW is paying attention.

that is heavenly! Wish I could pick one of those up.

[vantagesc]

Originally Posted by bdaddylo

Rode in my friend's new GT4 over the weekend. If I could afford a $100k track car this would be it. He has the full bucket seats (aka race seats) which doesn't make it an ideal daily driver. The ride is firm and yet dampened enough to make it comfortable for street driving even with the 20" wheels. Kudos to Porsche for making such a great car. I hope BMW is paying attention.

If it had the normal seats, do you think it could be daily driven? Has your friend had any problems with ground clearance?


No doubt the M2 will be far more usable in day to day life, but not as good at the track. The proper competitor for the GT4 would be the M2 CSL.

[JustChris]

This is not a Vs..?

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Pete_vB

Definitely no double wishbones, simply a revised strut type rear. They likely raised the spindles and they went quite stiff with the springs (stiffer in wheel rate than the GT3 by the looks of it) to get decent camber control over a narrow range. That doesn't eliminate other issues inherent with struts- roll center migration, anti-squat geometry, etc. Thus it's likely to be an improvement but definitely not perfect, and they may have had to set the car up stiffer than they would otherwise have preferred to make it more consistent.

In addition to my earlier comment, the following was initially commented about the Cayman GT4 rear suspension in a Jalopnik article entitled "Why The Porsche Cayman GT4 May Be More Special Than The 911 GT3":

"At the rear, the uprights are all new for the GT4, new pivot points, new uprights, new forged aluminum wishbones again with camber adjustment, a reinforced crossmember with new geometry, and ball bearings "all over," as Preuninger says. The damper is new from Bilstein, with a very light spring and a helper spring. The current GT3 doesn't have helper springs. Only Porsche's most special GT cars of recent years have. The original 911 GT2 got 'em and the last GT3 RS 4.0 liter got 'em, too."

It resulted in i.a. the following interesting comments about the "helper springs" and long gear ratios:

"Hey Raphael, your perspective is interesting, but incorrect IMO. The reason for the helper springs (from the "RS" supposedly) is that the rear strut suspension on the Cayman is structurally compromised. What this means is that unlike the wishbone suspension on even a basic 911 which can keep the rear tire in flat contact/perpendicular to the pavement throughout its suspension travel... the Cayman suspension only works well within a narrow range. As adding a wishbone suspension for the GT4 would have been financially, if not structurally impossible, Porsche came up with a compromise solution which actually works quite well. They needed a very stiff spring to keep the rear wheels within a range and to match the GT3 derived front, but they couldn't make the rear rock hard. So, the softer helper spring assists with initial part of travel for most daily use... and allows for the normal spring to retain its rigidity for more track-related use. It's not really a high-tech solution which the GT3 doesn't have... it's just the GT3-911 chassis has a naturally more evolved suspension which is less compromised. Good angle though...
If you want something to analyze on the GT4... discuss the absolutely intergalactic gearing... it's so friggin' long that Chris Harris was using 2-3rd gear on a big track like Portimão... gonna be absolutely useless on the road... might as well only have 4 gears instead of 6. Those of us taking delivery of the GT4 are already looking into a company called GTGEARS which for a pretty penny will switch out the gear ratios... the gearbox is the true flaw in the GT4."

"No, that is not what «helper springs» are usually used for. Normally they provide no real assist to the coilovers spring rate (i.e they are fully compressed under most driving conditions). They usually [are] just used to make sure [that] the spring does not jiggle around or come out of its perch when the shock is fully extended (full droop). There are also «assist springs» (aka high spring rate helper springs) that make sure the wheel stays in contact with the ground in hard cornering (inside wheel) by «helping» the damper extend to its full length when extended fully (past the length of the main spring). Either way I have never heard of a helper or assist spring not being fully compressed during normal driving."

"Your spring assumption is incorrect. The helper spring only serves to keep the main spring in place during near-full or full droop. It is not uncommon, and in fact rather common, on full race setups that have adjustable height perches, as this car appears to have) to use a helper spring to keep main spring pre-load (running a long spring and then cranking up the height pre-loads the spring) to a minimum so as to not allow the main spring to get to full bind (which ruins springs) when under full compression. Short spring, minimal travel, use a helper spring to keep the main spring from hopping around when you raise the ride height.
This suspension from the pics I've seen has a lot of adjustability (as a quality race setup should). The only way to maintain this adjustability with spring height is through a helper spring. Once it's dropped on all four, I guarantee that helper spring is flat (full bind), hence why its coils are cut flat, as this is what it's designed to do."

As regards the gear ratios, for example Top Gear, Chris Harris and Road & Track also pointed out that these are too long:

"One drawback to the gearbox though - those Cayman GTS ratios are too long for the GT4.
Porsche explains it away by saying that they don’t want people to have to change up during overtaking opportunities, but more sprint-oriented gearing would suit the car better. Don’t bother firming up the standard PASM dampers either - the Nurburgring lap time was achieved with them in normal."

"If only the development budget had stretched to a new set of gear ratios. The car will pull around 75mph in second gear and hit over 180mph – a road car doesn’t need that vmax. [...] It isn’t perfect – the long gearing is too much on the circuit as well. This is a double shame because you don’t get to enjoy that delicious shift action as often as you’d like!"

"The engine is a masterpiece with a haunting, deafening, flat-six wail. Unfortunately, you won't be hearing it pull to redline too many times in a row — like all manual-transmission Porsches, the GT4 has long, long gears. (We saw 48 mph in first, 83 mph in second. Thereafter, everything becomes a cruising gear. Shame.) At least with the big six's enormous torque, you don't feel trapped in the gears. Shorter ratios would mean higher peak acceleration in each gear, though probably not a faster GT4. Besides, with a 183-mph pie, each of the six slices was going to be pretty big. C'est la vie."

[IS3andME]

Originally Posted by M Car Chris

This is not a Vs..?

Lol, Porsche Cayman GT4 versus M2 "CSL" that we know nothing about.

[vantagesc]

That Jalopnik article is one of the most misinformed articles I've ever read. GT4 suspension is more special than the GT3's because it has adjustable roll bars? LOL.

The initial reports from the Porsche magazine Panorama suggested that the rear of the GT4 was a touch bouncy. Seems to jive with the thought of making the rear a touch stiff to make up for the characteristics of the rear strutt.

[sstarrx3]

Originally Posted by vantagesc

If it had the normal seats, do you think it could be daily driven? Has your friend had any problems with ground clearance?


No doubt the M2 will be far more usable in day to day life, but not as good at the track. The proper competitor for the GT4 would be the M2 CSL.

BMW does not make a production car that will compete with a GT4...probably never will. BMWs are never going to handle like a Porsche. Engine is in the wrong place

[vantagesc]

Originally Posted by sstarrx3

BMW does not make a production car that will compete with a GT4...probably never will. BMWs are never going to handle like a Porsche. Engine is in the wrong place

Corvette Z06 is technically a competitor of the GT4 though they are vastly different. Cars do not have to have the same engine layout or even achieve performance in same way to compete.

To me it's more about whether BMW will offer a car with similar focus and design ethos. And they might with the M2 CSL, depending on what that turns out to be. I'm actually not even sure I would buy a BMW that is mid engined. When I buy a BMW I expect to have that classic front engine, rear drive feel. Likewise the next Z4 or whatever they call it that is being developed with Toyota...it should also be front engined.

Yes, mid engined layout has its benefits but doesn't mean BMW cannot make a focused car.

[Hazey82]

Delete

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by cc3

The Cayman R and 1M were closely matched on performance and price. The new Cayman GT4 is said to be costing around £65000 which is a considerable hike over the Cayman R price. M2 will may be in the range of £45000/£50000.

Wonder how close they will be on performance? Cayman will have a big weight advantage and rumoured to have around 380/400 bhp?

Will be interesting to see how these cars compare.

Start another thread.

Game over /

[Pete_vB]

Originally Posted by Artemis

In addition to my earlier comment, the following was initially commented about the Cayman GT4 rear suspension...

Zero question the GT4 suspension is technically inferior to the GT3's, etc. It is technically superior to every other 981, but generally less suited for the road.

It uses a re-calibrated version of the 991 GT3's front damper on the rear. This is stiffer in bending than the normal 981 struts, so it losses less camber to flex in hard cornering. Spring rates are up 50% in front and 70% in the rear vs the X73 option sport suspension in the 981 (and standard in the Spyder). The big increase in rear rate is made possible by the 11% wider R compound rubber, but it's going to be on the low and stiff side for bumpier US backroads, which suit the X73 better. This compromise was needed in large part to control rear wheel patterns, which as previously stated are unfavorable compared to the GT3/ Carrera.

All this talk of helper springs, etc is something of a red herring. Porsche traditionally uses a complex rising rate spring package front and rear. The rear spring is rising rate with a smaller bump stop, the front is front is closer to linear but essentially sits on the bump stop static, and uses it actively as a rising rate spring. To call the spring portion of the GT4's setup more sophisticated is I think incorrect, and regardless the springs are simply a means to an end.

The tall gearing does have one bright spot- 1st becomes active on hairpins, and it's particularly easy to grab with the blip-shift. It's still geared far too tall, however- something closer to the 997.2's 74 mph 2nd would have been far superior, to the point that I suspect it was an intentional move to keep it slower than the Carrera S. It's not a development budget issue either- the base 981 uses a 76 mph 2nd, so they have that sitting on the shelf and chose not to use it.

Most would enjoy the Spyder more on the street.

[bdaddylo]

Originally Posted by vantagesc

If it had the normal seats, do you think it could be daily driven? Has your friend had any problems with ground clearance?


No doubt the M2 will be far more usable in day to day life, but not as good at the track. The proper competitor for the GT4 would be the M2 CSL.

I believe it could be daily driven if your town has relatively good roads and there are steep driveway transitions as tThe front does sit very low, maybe 4" max clearance. The black plastic lip, like on the GT3s, is considered a consumable and cost ~$250 to replace.

The wail of the awesome flat 6 sounds amazing; however, it could become annoying during daily driving especially if you have a headache.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by bdaddylo

I believe it could be daily driven if your town has relatively good roads and there are steep driveway transitions as tThe front does sit very low, maybe 4" max clearance. The black plastic lip, like on the GT3s, is considered a consumable and cost ~$250 to replace.
The wail of the awesome flat 6 sounds amazing; however, it could become annoying during daily driving especially if you have a headache.

Too bad that the Cayman GT4 doesn't feature the front axle lifting system (nose lift) that is optional on the 2016 GT3 RS.

With this system, at the push of a button, the front of the body can be raised pneumatically by 30 mm, to increase ground clearance at speeds of up to approx. 50 km/h.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by bdaddylo

Rode in my friend's new GT4 over the weekend. If I could afford a $100k track car this would be it. He has the full bucket seats (aka race seats) which doesn't make it an ideal daily driver. The ride is firm and yet dampened enough to make it comfortable for street driving even with the 20" wheels. Kudos to Porsche for making such a great car. I hope BMW is paying attention.

$100k with options seems expensive. Then you realize GT cars do not depreciate. GT4 is going to be a rare bird on the street.

[Bimmed Out]

I had the chance to spend some time in a GT4 this week. I don't even know where to begin. It is beyond incredible, more than I ever could have dreamed it would be. I've owned several 911s but this GT4 is something else. I think I'm going to have to get back into a Porsche.

I'm still quite excited for the M2... they are completely different cars with different purposes/uses, so one of each sounds about right to me.

[ACZakka325i]

Originally Posted by kepler

I had the chance to spend some time in a GT4 this week. I don't even know where to begin. It is beyond incredible, more than I ever could have dreamed it would be. I've owned several 911s but this GT4 is something else. I think I'm going to have to get back into a Porsche.

I'm still quite excited for the M2... they are completely different cars with different purposes/uses, so one of each sounds about right to me.

I'm not sure you will able able to get a GT4 at all.

[Bimmed Out]

Originally Posted by ACZakka325i

I'm not sure you will able able to get a GT4 at all.

I hear you. I will have to pay a premium and even then it will be tough. Early bird gets the worm, late bird pays a premium or loses out entirely. It's just the way it is.