[fugluten23]

Although I've been scouring this forum for a few months, I've never actually formally joined or posted. I must say, I've learned a lot from all of you on here looking up information about the car and have enjoyed following a bunch of threads. Figured it was time to start actively contributing

I used to own a 2008 Infiniti G35xS (intake, catback exhaust, underbody anti-roll bars) which was incredible. It had razor sharp steering, incredible steering feedback and a ton of power that gradually increased thru the powerband. I was extremely happy with that car. It allowed for extremely spirited and aggressive driving, sounded great and was so pure in the connection to the road and drive-ability.

Over the summer, the Infiniti was creeping up on 150k miles and was time to trade in. I looked at the Audi S3 and the 17 Infiniti q60. I actually liked the Audi a lot but the understeer was too much of a deal breaker for me. It wasn't all that bad either, but bad enough. The infiniti q60 (the newer one) was god awful on the road. Complicated, clunky, numb and lifeless are pretty good ways to describe it. The whole brand has really jumped the luxury bandwagon and ditched their pure, spirited cars they used to develop 10 years ago.

I settled on a 2016 M235i xDrive in New Jersey. I read incredible reviews about it and the car in the test drive absolutely blew away the Audi and q60 and was dam near close, if not better, in every performance category. I fell in love immediately. The dealership I was going to lease from just so happened to have had a Mineral Grey w Coral Red Interior Dinan Stage 2 (Tune, Exhaust and Intake). It was all they had and I never looked back. This car is rocket ship and is an absolute blast to drive in all conditions. I'd go as far as to call it a German Muscle Car (sports car would be the more proper term but with the grunt and immediate power I can't help but call it that). Hands down my favorite car ever driven and I've had a lot of time in Porche 911's.

Anyway, I'm only 3,000 miles on the odometer but I'm looking to do an upgrade that is sub $2k. I drive in a very "spirited" fashion and am looking for further performance boosting. I guess I have the mod bug. Here were the three upgrades I was considering (am open to other suggestions) - what would you guys do here?

1. Dinan Stage 3 w/ Intercooler

2. Tire Swap (I unfortunately ended up with all seasons). I'd prefer Michelin PSS which I had on the Infiniti and loved.

3. Dinan Anti Roll Bars and Rear Bushing Upgrade


My thinking is - power increase from stage 2 to 3 wouldn't be enough to justify the spend. The car is incredible so extra power is always wanted but I think the stage 4 tune and rebuilt turbo would be a better jump and more worth the money. Not sure if the "butt dyno" would feel a difference to stage 3 from 2. I'd love to have a staggered summer Michelin setup (I read that the xDrive can handle a bit of staggering?) but these current all season pirelli run flats will wear out eventually and I will need to buy new tires at that point - which would be summers. So that is coming inevitably. Then there's the anti roll bars and bushing upgrade. I definitely want a tiny bit more oversteer and a tad bit less body roll but am not sure if anti-roll bars and bushings would achieve what I'm looking for or even be noticeable enough. I guess at the least it would be a step in the right direction but would require more mods down the road like springs? I love the suspension and ride height currently and don't have much interest in the looks of lowering it but would do it if the results were noticeable enough and positive all around.

Thanks in advance for any feedback, suggestions or advice.

[Pparana]

tires, then sways, then power. Everything goes through the tires.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by fugluten23

Although I've been scouring this forum for a few months, I've never actually formally joined or posted. I must say, I've learned a lot from all of you on here looking up information about the car.

I used to own a 2008 Infiniti G35xS (intake, catback exhaust, underbody anti-roll bars) which was incredible. It had razor sharp steering, incredible steering feedback and a ton of power that gradually increased thru the powerband. I was extremely happy with that car. It allowed for extremely spirited and aggressive driving, sounded great and was so pure in the connection to the road and drive-ability.

Over the summer, the Infiniti was creeping up on 150k miles and was time to trade in. I traded it in and picked up a 2016 M235i xDrive in New Jersey. They just so happened to have had a Mineral Grey w Coral Red Interior Dinan Stage 2 (Tune, Exhaust and Intake). I've never looked back. This car is rocket ship and is an absolute blast to drive in all conditions. I'd go as far as to call it a German Muscle Car (sports car would be the more proper term but with the grunt and immediate power I can't help but call it that).

Anyway, I'm only 3,000 miles on the odometer but I'm looking to do an upgrade that is sub $2k. Here were the three upgrades I was considering (am open to other suggestions) - what would you guys do here?

1. Dinan Stage 3 w/ Intercooler

2. Tire Swap (I unfortunately ended up with all seasons). I'd prefer Michelin PSS which I had on the Infiniti and loved.

3. Anti Roll Bars and Rear Bushing Upgrade


My thinking is - power increase from stage 2 to 3 wouldn't be enough to justify the spend. I'd love to have a staggered summer Michelin setup (I read that the xDrive can handle a bit of staggering?) but these tires will wear out eventually and I will need to buy new tires at that point - which would be summers. Then there's the anti roll bars and bushing upgrade. I definitely want a tiny bit more oversteer and a tad bit less body roll but am not sure if anti-roll bars and bushings would achieve what I'm looking for or even be noticeable enough. I guess at the least it would be a step in the right direction but would require more mods down the road like springs? I love the suspension and ride height currently and don't have much interest in the looks of lowering it but would do it if the results were noticeable enough and positive all around.

Sorry for the long post. Thanks in advance for any feedback, suggestions or advice.

Anti-roll bars should be well down your list of priorities. Not only are they insanely expensive to install, the benefit would be minimal for the cost involved. I would really only consider them if you were going to track your car regularly.

A thought: new rubber will only set you back @ $800. Use the $1.2K left over to either go Stage 2 (and save the Stage 3 Upgrade for later) or go Stage 1 and try lower springs (Dinan) and a set of M3/4 Lower Control Arms. Those would be the options I'd consider, anyway.

In any case, do the tires first. Well worth it (and you can likely sell the A/S stockers), particularly if your're comfortable with running a three-season tire below 40F temps (I assume you did on the Infiniti).

[fugluten23]

Originally Posted by Pparana

tires, then sways, then power. Everything goes through the tires.

Tires were actually the one and only upgrade I was going to make. But figured I'd explore more options under that budget and kinda went in a few unintended directions.

I agree though, tires are everything. I'm thinking a new set of summers would additionally maybe even give me a little more feedback in the steering? Wasn't sure on that one.

[fugluten23]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Anti-roll bars should be well down your list of priorities. Not only are they insanely expensive to install, the benefit would be minimal for the cost involved. I would really only consider them if you were going to track your car regularly.

A thought: new rubber will only set you back @ $800. Use the $1.2K left over to either go Stage 2 (and save the Stage 3 Upgrade for later) or go Stage 1 and try lower springs (Dinan) and a set of M3/4 Lower Control Arms. Those would be the options I'd consider, anyway.

In any case, do the tires first. Well worth it (and you can likely sell the A/S stockers), particularly if your're comfortable with running a three-season tire below 40F temps (I assume you did on the Infiniti).

Already at stage 2 It is incredible but only test drove a heavier convertible m235 once so don't have much of a base for comparison.

You think the lower springs and lower control arms would give me a noticeable performance increase? Didn't really consider that before your post.

Thanks for all the help so far everyone!

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by fugluten23

Already at stage 2 It is incredible but only test drove a heavier convertible m235 once so don't have much of a base for comparison.

You think the lower springs and lower control arms would give me a noticeable performance increase? Didn't really consider that before your post.

Thanks for all the help so far everyone!

Lower, stiffer springs will help with the body roll. I'd normally also recommend Shockware from Dinan, which reportedly works wonders with decreasing body roll on active suspensions, but Dinan never was able to crack the M235i's suspension software. (It did for the 228i's active suspension, however; that's how we know it works wonders. ) The LCAs clean up the geometry quite a bit and help with turn-in and road feel. Several forum members have installed them; there should be a thread on it in the Suspension subforum.

Question: What does your "Stage 2" involve? (Different manufacturers define it different ways.) If the turbo's still stock, IMHO, I really don't think you have a pressing need for a Stage 3 intercooler unless you're running fast a lot. The N55 in the M235i (and, I'm pretty sure, the xDrive variant you have) already has dual aux radiators (one coolant, one oil); unless you're running a larger turbo, a larger intercooler won't do you much good except (again) if you track your car a lot and the stock blower's being taxed consistently.

[kdog26372]

If you are swapping to the staggered summers, you'll need to buy the fatter rims for the back to fit the fatter tire too; that adds cost of course. Then, the fact you live in NJ, you'll need a set of winter tires as the summers are useless below 40 degrees as you'll be on AWD hockey pucks and that's dangerous in cold. Most will get rims for those winter tires as well rather than swapping tires on/off 2 times/year. All in for 2 new fatter rims for the back for staggered summers about $500, 4 new summer tires $700, 4 new winter tires $750ish, 4 new winter rims another $600 along with 4 new tire pressure monitors for those winter rim/tire package $360; all in about $3k.

[Joe240]

Since you're xDrive, can't do the m3/m4 LCA upgrade unfortunately

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Joe240

Since you're xDrive, can't do the m3/m4 LCA upgrade unfortunately

Ooooh, didn't realize that. My bad, OP!

[fugluten23]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Lower, stiffer springs will help with the body roll. I'd normally also recommend Shockware from Dinan, which reportedly works wonders with decreasing body roll on active suspensions, but Dinan never was able to crack the M235i's suspension software. (It did for the 228i's active suspension, however; that's how we know it works wonders. ) The LCAs clean up the geometry quite a bit and help with turn-in and road feel. Several forum members have installed them; there should be a thread on it in the Suspension subforum.

Question: What does your "Stage 2" involve? (Different manufacturers define it different ways.) If the turbo's still stock, IMHO, I really don't think you have a pressing need for a Stage 3 intercooler unless you're running fast a lot. The N55 in the M235i (and, I'm pretty sure, the xDrive variant you have) already has dual aux radiators (one coolant, one oil); unless you're running a larger turbo, a larger intercooler won't do you much good except (again) if you track your car a lot and the stock blower's being taxed consistently.

Shockware sounds like exactly what I've been looking for. Sounds like others are looking for this just as much. Shame they couldn't crack it for the m235i.

I just have a stage 2 Dinan tune, a Dinan intake and a Dinan exhaust. I haven't dyno'd the car and I don't track it but I do drive the car very hard and fast usually which made me think a bigger intercooler from Dinan would help with engine life. But doesn't sound like a big enough issue, or one at all, that needs money now to fix or prevent something.

[fugluten23]

Originally Posted by kdog26372

If you are swapping to the staggered summers, you'll need to buy the fatter rims for the back to fit the fatter tire too; that adds cost of course. Then, the fact you live in NJ, you'll need a set of winter tires as the summers are useless below 40 degrees as you'll be on AWD hockey pucks and that's dangerous in cold. Most will get rims for those winter tires as well rather than swapping tires on/off 2 times/year. All in for 2 new fatter rims for the back for staggered summers about $500, 4 new summer tires $700, 4 new winter tires $750ish, 4 new winter rims another $600 along with 4 new tire pressure monitors for those winter rim/tire package $360; all in about $3k.

I heard that the rear rims on the m235 were half an inch wider then the front, is that true? If so, I was thinking of a 245/225 staggered setup. Nothing too crazy and something still tolerable by the xDrive. Maybe that wouldn't be worth it cost to performance wise?

Regarding the winter tire setup. I live in NJ and work partly in NYC and partly in Northern Jersey which requires a car. Working in NYC consists purely of mass transit which is easily accessible where I live. On bad winter days or extremely cold days, I would just mass transit if I needed to get anywhere. I figure if I got extreme performance summer tires like I had on my old g35, then I'd only be able to not drive the car for potentially 2-4 weeks total out of the year which isn't bad at all given the circumstances.

I'm always overly optimistic that we'll get great winters though, which I'm rarely right about lol.

But I'm not too focused on the alternative winter wheel setup and probably wouldn't go that route. I'm much more interested in squeezing out any extra noticeable performance that I can out of this car under the 2k budget constraint.

[kdog26372]

It really depends on what kind of driving you do. Are you gonna track the car or just drive around NY and NJ streets? I believe the quickest M235i out there is still on his stock all seasons, so acceleration wise anyway, the Pilot summers ain't gonna do much if anything for that part.

If you've already got the Dinan Stage 2 and drive in mostly warmer months, I'd look at reviews of the Stage 3 and see what people think. The xdrive can handle the extra power with the stock tires as seen on this forum, then in a year you can upgrade to Stage 4. That's just me, more power the better. If you were RWD, I'd not bother with more power as you'll end of doing burnout more than dropping your acceleration times.

[fugluten23]

Originally Posted by kdog26372

It really depends on what kind of driving you do. Are you gonna track the car or just drive around NY and NJ streets? I believe the quickest M235i out there is still on his stock all seasons, so acceleration wise anyway, the Pilot summers ain't gonna do much if anything for that part.

If you've already got the Dinan Stage 2 and drive in mostly warmer months, I'd look at reviews of the Stage 3 and see what people think. The xdrive can handle the extra power with the stock tires as seen on this forum, then in a year you can upgrade to Stage 4. That's just me, more power the better. If you were RWD, I'd not bother with more power as you'll end of doing burnout more than dropping your acceleration times.

No tracking for me, at least for now. I just drive hard around NJ NY. I probably wouldn't notice any acceleration improvements from tires even if there were any, but maybe better cornering, grip and steering? Wasn't sure.

[bryan_G01]

Get a catted downpipe. It wont throw a code, and will open up another 10-12whp.

The stock runflats are horrible, but good enough for all conditions you face on the street.
Super Sports are nice for street, but there are better tires available IMO, RE71, nitto 05, nitto 01 R comp.

Dinan stage 2 is nice amount of power, but you really want to make your way to stage 3 with a downpipe.

This will bring you right around 390whp, 425tq which isnt bad at all.

[fugluten23]

Originally Posted by bryan_f22

Get a catted downpipe. It wont throw a code, and will open up another 10-12whp.

The stock runflats are horrible, but good enough for all conditions you face on the street.
Super Sports are nice for street, but there are better tires available IMO, RE71, nitto 05, nitto 01 R comp.

Dinan stage 2 is nice amount of power, but you really want to make your way to stage 3 with a downpipe.

This will bring you right around 390whp, 425tq which isnt bad at all.

Stage 3 with a downpipe doesn't seem like a bad direction for that added torque at all. I'd def notice and enjoy that power increase. How much louder would a downpipe make the Dinan exhaust? Any added drone?

I'm kind of leaning towards a tire upgrade primarily for the cost benefit but a downpipe seems interesting and potentially more worth it for the price.

[XutvJet]

Since you're AWD, do a 235/40R18 18X8.5" square tire setup. The extra tire upfront will dial out understeer and the AWD overcomes the need for more traction in the rear.

As for other mods, I'd learned over my 20+ years of modding cars that it's styling enhancements and little creature comfort things here and there that provide the most enjoyment. You can only use so much power on the street. I also learned to do things slowly and one at a time to thoroughly enjoy them. Doing nearly everything at once will result in boredom and the "what's next" mentality and ultimately, just a lot of wasted money.

[Dylan86]

Tires are more important than power, in my books. Considering you're already stage 2, I'd imagine your tires are holding you back more than power. First mod on any of my cars, is always tires, namely PSS's. But if you don't corner hard, or anything in that manner, then I'd suppose a FMIC would be the next "best" thing for ya.

My $.02

[bryan_G01]

Originally Posted by fugluten23

Stage 3 with a downpipe doesn't seem like a bad direction for that added torque at all. I'd def notice and enjoy that power increase. How much louder would a downpipe make the Dinan exhaust? Any added drone?

I'm kind of leaning towards a tire upgrade primarily for the cost benefit but a downpipe seems interesting and potentially more worth it for the price.

On stock exhaust, it will be a little louder and more pops, but will def be within wife acceptance db level.

Drone depends on the DP, but i would say probably not.

Go for it!

[Joe240]

Originally Posted by fugluten23

I heard that the rear rims on the m235 were half an inch wider then the front, is that true? If so, I was thinking of a 245/225 staggered setup. Nothing too crazy and something still tolerable by the xDrive. Maybe that wouldn't be worth it cost to performance wise?

Since you have stock run flats, I'm assuming your wheels aren't staggered. When I ordered my 240, it was square run flats or staggered summers. Do the back tires look stretched on the wheel more than the front? Other way to check would be to remove the back wheel and look inside the drum.

The 235/240 with summers comes stock with 225/245 setup so that will work for you. As the one person mentioned, a square 235 setup would be an improvement over your square run flats. However I disagree that a square setup is best just because you're xDrive. I'm running 235/265 with xDrive and I think the extra tire in the back makes it more planted when powering through a turn.

XDrive transfers power front to rear based on tire slippage. If going through a turn fast enough, they can begin to slip with understeer so wider up front helps. But the backend can still loose traction from skidding which means power has to be moved more to the front to stop the skidding. Going wider in the back would prevent that and allow the 35%/65% distrobution of xDrive to remain. Since when accelerating causing weight to shift to the back, having the wider tires in the back when in a turn would be beneficial.

That's my understanding of physics at least but I can say it feels much better driving straight and in corners with the 235/265 (and I'm on all season DWS06) compared to the 225/245 PSS that came with the car.

[Joe240]

Oh and the stock 225/245 is a rolling diameter difference of 1.3%. Usually with AWD you want under 1% so xDrive is a little flexible. The 235/35 265/30 setup I'm running is 0.86%. So it's within the specs for xDrive.

[fugluten23]

Originally Posted by Joe240

Since you have stock run flats, I'm assuming your wheels aren't staggered. When I ordered my 240, it was square run flats or staggered summers. Do the back tires look stretched on the wheel more than the front? Other way to check would be to remove the back wheel and look inside the drum.

The 235/240 with summers comes stock with 225/245 setup so that will work for you. As the one person mentioned, a square 235 setup would be an improvement over your square run flats. However I disagree that a square setup is best just because you're xDrive. I'm running 235/265 with xDrive and I think the extra tire in the back makes it more planted when powering through a turn.

XDrive transfers power front to rear based on tire slippage. If going through a turn fast enough, they can begin to slip with understeer so wider up front helps. But the backend can still loose traction from skidding which means power has to be moved more to the front to stop the skidding. Going wider in the back would prevent that and allow the 35%/65% distrobution of xDrive to remain. Since when accelerating causing weight to shift to the back, having the wider tires in the back when in a turn would be beneficial.

That's my understanding of physics at least but I can say it feels much better driving straight and in corners with the 235/265 (and I'm on all season DWS06) compared to the 225/245 PSS that came with the car.

235/265 seems like a great staggered setup. The rear rims are half an inch wider in the back (the rim looks wider then the tire whereas the front looks plush).

Tirerack (and I've read this elsewhere) recommends a 225/40 245/35 staggered setup for xDrive with those rim widths. I don't have the budget to change rims although I'd love to for a larger staggered wheel setup.

So with that said, would you ultimately suggest a 235 square setup or a 225/245 staggered? Do you notice a big difference in cornering with your staggered setup? I'd love to reduce body roll a little bit and have a more planted cornering ability.

[bryan_G01]

Go 235/40/18 square if you plan on tracking.
This way you can rotate tires.