[WWM]

I owned an S5 and sold it because it was boring to drive and didn't feel like a special car. I guess the "prestige" didn't really mean much to me so now I'm slumming it with an M-sport BMW, which ironically is at the exact same level as an Audi S car (S = Mxxxx and RS = Mx). It's just faster in a straight line and around a track and has more presence. But yea, totally lacking prestige.

[onatuesday]

Originally Posted by NYHoustonman

Audi vs. BMW (RS4, R8 aside) always boils down to this: like heavy, understeering pigs with lifeless steering, no adjustability, but tons of grip and straight-line speed? Buy the Audi. Like driver involvement, and a lighter, more sports car-esque feel, perhaps sacrificing in straight line speed? You'd better be buying the BMW (or a Porsche, if you have the money ).

As for trinim3, I guess he falls into the former category, which is okay. He's a badge snob, too, which isn't okay to me, but to each their own...

...And apparently he hangs out with women who like understeering pigs .

Gotta love guys like this. The guys holding on to the past and choosing to ignore the present. What you said is mostly true... IF it were 2006. But it's not, it's 2014. I suppose you also think the Lakers are still the best team in the NBA as well?

[Apologies for the long post - I tore my achilles and have too much time on my hands sitting around at home]

Do you really think BMW still makes light weight, driver-involving cars with great steering feel? When I drove an E46 M3 (I drove a Ford Focus prior to that btw) I swore that I would only buy BMWs for the rest of my life. Then I bought an e92 M3 and you know what? It was big and heavy and after that things were never the same with BMW. So I had the common sense to not have blind faith in a corporation that has no loyalty to me and instead have an open mind to try out different brands. I've driven over 100 cars (I keep a list), everything from a Geo Metro to Formula Mazdas and the cars that impress me the most are actually Hyundais and Kias - badge snob I am not.

Moving back to BMW, do you know how much a M5/M6 weighs? Or even a F30? Might I remind you that BMW M now straps M badges on X6s and X5s which is the antithesis of everything BMW M stands for? And that they have a partnership with Toyota to build sports cars? TOYOTA. Get real with the times. The F30 and F10 have been losing comparison tests left and right, namely BECAUSE they lack steering feel, are bloated and are less engaging. The fact is BMW wants to sell more cars. Well what's the most popular cars in America? It's a Toyota Camry/Corolla. So they are using that as their template now to build cars and sell more of them outside of the driving enthusiast niche that we fall under. This is natural for any company in search of greater profits.

Now yes the M235i and the M4 seem to be a step in the right direction but they aren't slam dunks. The M4 has already lost comparison tests to the old C63, a Jaguar F-type V6, 911, etc. The M235i has lost to at least a WRX and a base Cayman. That doesn't mean they aren't great cars but in the areas of "sports car-esque feel" and driver involvement, BMW isn't what it used to be and there are better out there in those regards (still tough to beat BMW on the all around package though). On paper both the M4 and M235i are phenomenal cars but in reality they are missing the "je ne sais quoi" of BMWs of old. People who buy BMWs now, openly admit they want a more luxurious less raw experience (exception being M235i buyers) - and that's what BMW has prescribed.

Now on to Audi. Yes Audi's steering is lifeless. I cannot argue against that. Yes they are heavy - can't argue that. However, Audis didn't build their brand around those traits and they don't try to act like they aren't those things. They build technological wonders with sensational grip in spite of those things. If you're driving a modern Audi with a sport diff and torque vectoring and are still experiencing understeer then you probably should take a driving school to learn vehicle dynamics. (PS if they have schools for learning how to drive pigs please sign me up )

Here's what Randy Pobst (a renowned race car driver) had to say about the RS5:

Given how high Randy was on the 507, we figured the less powerful, heavier RS 5 had no shot. We couldn't have been more wrong. Posting a best lap of 1:42.97, it was 0.48 second quicker, but Randy's comments suggested more like 4.8 seconds. "The R8 should be half this good! This car is fantastic. I adore it. It does such a great job utilizing all-wheel-drive traction off the corner, with zero push. You just drive in there and you think it's too early, but you just floor it and you're like, man, I should've gotten on the gas sooner. And no push, no oversteer -- it just drives right out of there, beautifully carving an exit line, using all the power. The gearbox is also very friendly. I just got more confident with carrying speed in and trusting the grip

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz36jxp2FN2

In response to the other guy who sold his S5 and picked up a M sport. Both cars are great. Simply a matter of personal preference. CarandDriver apparently preferred the S5. http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test

Here's the pecking order:
428i - A5
435i - S5
M4 - RS5

TL;DR: Audi isn't what it used to be. BMW isn't what it used to be. Both make great cars. It really comes down to personal preference and as someone else mentioned at the track, it'll come down to driver-skill since they are so evenly matched. I'd encourage you to have an open mind and try out both and not be loyal to a brand that has no loyalty towards you.

[NYHoustonman]

Originally Posted by trinim3

Gotta love guys like this. The guys holding on to the past and choosing to ignore the present. What you said is mostly true... IF it were 2006. But it's not, it's 2014. I suppose you also think the Lakers are still the best team in the NBA as well?

[Apologies for the long post - I tore my achilles and have too much time on my hands sitting around at home]

Do you really think BMW still makes light weight, driver-involving cars with great steering feel? When I drove an E46 M3 (I drove a Ford Focus prior to that btw) I swore that I would only buy BMWs for the rest of my life. Then I bought an e92 M3 and you know what? It was big and heavy and after that things were never the same with BMW. So I had the common sense to not have blind faith in a corporation that has no loyalty to me and instead have an open mind to try out different brands. I've driven over 100 cars (I keep a list), everything from a Geo Metro to Formula Mazdas and the cars that impress me the most are actually Hyundais and Kias - badge snob I am not.

Moving back to BMW, do you know how much a M5/M6 weighs? Or even a F30? Might I remind you that BMW M now straps M badges on X6s and X5s which is the antithesis of everything BMW M stands for? And that they have a partnership with Toyota to build sports cars? TOYOTA. Get real with the times. The F30 and F10 have been losing comparison tests left and right, namely BECAUSE they lack steering feel, are bloated and are less engaging. The fact is BMW wants to sell more cars. Well what's the most popular cars in America? It's a Toyota Camry/Corolla. So they are using that as their template now to build cars and sell more of them outside of the driving enthusiast niche that we fall under. This is natural for any company in search of greater profits.

Now yes the M235i and the M4 seem to be a step in the right direction but they aren't slam dunks. The M4 has already lost comparison tests to the old C63, a Jaguar F-type V6, 911, etc. The M235i has lost to at least a WRX and a base Cayman. That doesn't mean they aren't great cars but in the areas of "sports car-esque feel" and driver involvement, BMW isn't what it used to be and there are better out there in those regards (still tough to beat BMW on the all around package though). On paper both the M4 and M235i are phenomenal cars but in reality they are missing the "je ne sais quoi" of BMWs of old. People who buy BMWs now, openly admit they want a more luxurious less raw experience (exception being M235i buyers) - and that's what BMW has prescribed.

Now on to Audi. Yes Audi's steering is lifeless. I cannot argue against that. Yes they are heavy - can't argue that. However, Audis didn't build their brand around those traits and they don't try to act like they aren't those things. They build technological wonders with sensational grip in spite of those things. If you're driving a modern Audi with a sport diff and torque vectoring and are still experiencing understeer then you probably should take a driving school to learn vehicle dynamics. (PS if they have schools for learning how to drive pigs please sign me up )

Here's what Randy Pobst (a renowned race car driver) had to say about the RS5:



In response to the other guy who sold his S5 and picked up a M sport. Both cars are great. Simply a matter of personal preference. CarandDriver apparently preferred the S5. http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test

Here's the pecking order:
428i - A5
435i - S5
M4 - RS5

TL;DR: Audi isn't what it used to be. BMW isn't what it used to be. Both make great cars. It really comes down to personal preference and as someone else mentioned at the track, it'll come down to driver-skill since they are so evenly matched. I'd encourage you to have an open mind and try out both and not be loyal to a brand that has no loyalty towards you.

Everything is relative. Although BMW's cars are forever increasing in size and weight, they're still lighter than their Audi counterparts. Ditto steering feel. The general consensus is that Audi's cars, even the RS models, are unrivaled for their utter lack of steering feel and throttle adjustability. Evo, a publication that I trust above all others at this point, rarely rates these cars highly for this reason.

The M4 is losing comparison tests because it's the first turbocharged, EPS-equipped car in the M3/4 line, plain and simple. It has beat a Cayman S around a track, which is a tremendous feat for a car its size, and it is being unfairly compared to the likes of the E92 M3 (which, by the way, is an all-time classic, despite its weight) for its lack of high-RPM bite and exhaust note. Audis are not held to this standard because they don't have the traditionalist fanbase or even a line of recognized driver's cars to compare to.

Re: Motor Trend and Randy Pobst - I like the guy and the magazine, but I simply can't help but to think he has different priorities as a driver to most any other 'journalist.' He "hated" the 1M - who hates the 1M, exactly?!?!?! And he called the M235i the best-driving BMW he'd driven in ten (iirc) years. I'd point to that as evidence of the M235i being a great car, which it surely is, but whenever I've seen it compared to the E92 M3, it has lost handily. In my experience, the majority of the press loves the E92 M3, especially now that it's gone and in comparison to the M3/4, while Randy seems to prefer the M235i, and even (as you mention) loved the RS5, which has not been received so favorably elsewhere. I get the feeling that he judges a car only by its balance, under- vs. over-steer, and absolutely hates a car with any understeer - he wants something with which he can turn in at ridiculous speeds and that will continue to grip. I don't know what to make of him anymore, although I still respect him.
Edit - thought about this some, and I remember him mentioning that he didn't like the twitchy nature of the 1M. He seems to prefer more 'stable' at-the-limit behavior.

I was intentionally harsh on Audi's because you're on a BMW message board being intentionally harsh on BMW's - they certainly have great design, great interiors, and grip well enough. And, yes, most any car will understeer if you're not driving it properly. But the consensus is that they exhibit a complete lack of throttle adjustability and at-the-limit feel, which keeps me from wanting to own one.

...Unless they import an RS4 Avant, which is undoubtedly a cool car . As is, I'm saving for a Cayman or F Type or M2 or...

To me, factoring in things like 'prestige' or 'will chicks like my car' in your car selection process makes you come off as a bit of a badge snob, by the way.

[onatuesday]

Originally Posted by NYHoustonman

Everything is relative. Although BMW's cars are forever increasing in size and weight, they're still lighter than their Audi counterparts. Ditto steering feel. The general consensus is that Audi's cars, even the RS models, are unrivaled for their utter lack of steering feel and throttle adjustability. Evo, a publication that I trust above all others at this point, rarely rates these cars highly for this reason.

The M4 is losing comparison tests because it's the first turbocharged, EPS-equipped car in the M3/4 line, plain and simple. It has beat a Cayman S around a track, which is a tremendous feat for a car its size, and it is being unfairly compared to the likes of the E92 M3 (which, by the way, is an all-time classic, despite its weight) for its lack of high-RPM bite and exhaust note. Audis are not held to this standard because they don't have the traditionalist fanbase or even a line of recognized driver's cars to compare to.

Re: Motor Trend and Randy Pobst - I like the guy and the magazine, but I simply can't help but to think he has different priorities as a driver to most any other 'journalist.' He "hated" the 1M - who hates the 1M, exactly?!?!?! And he called the M235i the best-driving BMW he'd driven in ten (iirc) years. I'd point to that as evidence of the M235i being a great car, which it surely is, but whenever I've seen it compared to the E92 M3, it has lost handily. In my experience, the majority of the press loves the E92 M3, especially now that it's gone and in comparison to the M3/4, while Randy seems to prefer the M235i, and even (as you mention) loved the RS5, which has not been received so favorably elsewhere. I get the feeling that he judges a car only by its balance, under- vs. over-steer, and absolutely hates a car with any understeer - he wants something with which he can turn in at ridiculous speeds and that will continue to grip. I don't know what to make of him anymore, although I still respect him.
Edit - thought about this some, and I remember him mentioning that he didn't like the twitchy nature of the 1M. He seems to prefer more 'stable' at-the-limit behavior.

I was intentionally harsh on Audi's because you're on a BMW message board being intentionally harsh on BMW's - they certainly have great design, great interiors, and grip well enough. And, yes, most any car will understeer if you're not driving it properly. But the consensus is that they exhibit a complete lack of throttle adjustability and at-the-limit feel, which keeps me from wanting to own one.

...Unless they import an RS4 Avant, which is undoubtedly a cool car . As is, I'm saving for a Cayman or F Type or M2 or...

To me, factoring in things like 'prestige' or 'will chicks like my car' in your car selection process makes you come off as a bit of a badge snob, by the way.

Your subsequent analysis is IMO much more fair and constructive and I agree on most of your points. I can see how I come across as a badge snob but in my original post I did explicitly say "if those things are important to you." The reality is I'm 25 yrs old and my first car was a used Ford Focus that my parents bought me in high school. I absolutely loved that car but I still remember all my friends referring to it as the "Slowcus". In a lot of ways that motivated me. Every car since (including the e46 M3 after the Focus), I've bought with my own hard earned money and I'm 25 now and I look back and say wow I've been very fortunate to have driven the cars that I have. At some point I'm sure I'll get to a point in life where 'prestige' isn't at least a factor to me but right now it's at least a consideration. Though first and foremost my passion for great driver's cars fuels my purchasing decisions.



At the the of the day what's most important is how a car makes me feel regardless of the badge it wears. I actually think that would be a good experiment to somehow get people to "blindtest" cars and then judge them!

[deathsliver]

Originally Posted by trinim3

Your subsequent analysis is IMO much more fair and constructive and I agree on most of your points. I can see how I come across as a badge snob but in my original post I did explicitly say "if those things are important to you." The reality is I'm 25 yrs old and my first car was a used Ford Focus that my parents bought me in high school. I absolutely loved that car but I still remember all my friends referring to it as the "Slowcus". In a lot of ways that motivated me. Every car since (including the e46 M3 after the Focus), I've bought with my own hard earned money and I'm 25 now and I look back and say wow I've been very fortunate to have driven the cars that I have. At some point I'm sure I'll get to a point in life where 'prestige' isn't at least a factor to me but right now it's at least a consideration. Though first and foremost my passion for great driver's cars fuels my purchasing decisions.



At the the of the day what's most important is how a car makes me feel regardless of the badge it wears. I actually think that would be a good experiment to somehow get people to "blindtest" cars and then judge them!

.

Oh, you're 25. This explains a lot.

[NYHoustonman]

Originally Posted by trinim3

Your subsequent analysis is IMO much more fair and constructive and I agree on most of your points. I can see how I come across as a badge snob but in my original post I did explicitly say "if those things are important to you." The reality is I'm 25 yrs old and my first car was a used Ford Focus that my parents bought me in high school. I absolutely loved that car but I still remember all my friends referring to it as the "Slowcus". In a lot of ways that motivated me. Every car since (including the e46 M3 after the Focus), I've bought with my own hard earned money and I'm 25 now and I look back and say wow I've been very fortunate to have driven the cars that I have. At some point I'm sure I'll get to a point in life where 'prestige' isn't at least a factor to me but right now it's at least a consideration. Though first and foremost my passion for great driver's cars fuels my purchasing decisions.



At the the of the day what's most important is how a car makes me feel regardless of the badge it wears. I actually think that would be a good experiment to somehow get people to "blindtest" cars and then judge them!

Agreed on all counts. I was intentionally critical of Audi in my first reply as it looked like your post was flamebait - figured I'd give you what you were looking for . I actually respect Audis, they're more appealing aesthetically than BMW's current lineup, I just know that they're generally not for me.

That's a cool Focus. To be honest I lacked an appreciation for those until I learned what they could be in overseas markets (through Top Gear, mostly). Now, with the ST line being a global brand... I lust after three cars at the moment. At the high end, there's the Cayman S/F Type Coupe question, and at the lower end, I'd love to own a Fiesta ST. It's a good time to be a car enthusiast.

[bladeomatic]

Originally Posted by NYHoustonman

And he called the M235i the best-driving BMW he'd driven in ten (iirc) years. I'd point to that as evidence of the M235i being a great car, which it surely is, but whenever I've seen it compared to the E92 M3, it has lost handily.

Hmmm…

The "Streets of Willow" track records are certainly interesting….

[kdphan]

this thread is getting hilarious

honestly, S5 vs 435i or s4 vs 335msport is about the same.

I just remember how my e92M3 had such shitty interior compared to my current S4.

[NYHoustonman]

Originally Posted by bladeomatic

Hmmm…

The "Streets of Willow" track records are certainly interesting….

That comment was more down to the review itself (subjective opinion) as opposed to track times. That said, I'd still expect the 1M/M3 to be around the same time around a given track as the M235i (if not better). Maybe this is down to the driver? The M235i lap is the only one highlighted to use Randy Pobst. Hell, one of those was from an Edmunds review...

[horsepower_and_hounds]

The "Streets of Willow" is more a large cart & moto track. Don't get me wrong....it has a great layout I just wonder why the don't run them on the big track. Do you think "Streets" gives a better reference to normal street hot rodding?

[bladeomatic]

Originally Posted by NYHoustonman

I'd still expect the 1M/M3 to be around the same time around a given track as the M235i (if not better). Maybe this is down to the driver? The M235i lap is the only one highlighted to use Randy Pobst. Hell, one of those was from an Edmunds review...

Agreed on all points.

Randy knows that track extremely well and was NOT the driver of the M3's. However, during his video review of the M235i I love watching him "dance" the car around the track and his comments re "favorite BMW in 10 years" put a smile on my face.

Regardless of driver, it's mighty fun to see the M235i sitting above the R8, Cayman and M3 track times. The fact that the 235 is in this neighborhood is impressive.

Of course with identical conditions and drivers, I would expect all 3 of these cars to beat the M235i, due to their more focused track chassis.

And just as likely, I would expect the forthcoming M2 to blister them all on this tight track...

[Winoman]

Have been following and enjoying this thread. I've had a fair amount of driving time in both BMWs & Audis - (mostly older ones) - though I've recently had the opportunity to drive a pretty tricked out V10 R8 (after running with it in my S4 and not losing any significant ground!). Anyway - I'm agreeing with most of the critique of both Audis (in general) and newer BMWs - though there are certainly exceptions to the rule.

While my S4 is indeed heavy and has a relatively heavy driving feel (at slow speeds) and can plow at the limit (a very high limit I might add) - in fact its not at all a boring or uninvolving car to drive (actually exhibits both on-throttle/turn in oversteer and lift throttle oversteer...due to my aftermarket meddling....)...in fact I find my S4 more exciting to drive then the R8 was (which is just so good to be almost boring). Anyway, for years I've fielded inquiries concerning which car - the S4 or the 330i - do I enjoy driving more - and while the (stock) 330 (ZHP/M-sport/performance package and what have you) is really a supremely nice driving car - again near perfection...and has better (& lighter) steering feel compared to the S4...well the S4 is well - just tweaked out in such a way power and handling wise to make it very special (and ultimately more fun). Anyway I'm glad to have both...even as they grow a bit long in the tooth they are both very fun and fulfilling cars.

So I'm considering a future car...and its just my way to start researching & checking things out years in advance. I'm not even considering an Audi - though had a brief interest in a TT-RS. But in general - though Audis really have styling - particularly interior styling - just down - I'm ultimately looking for lighter & nimbler...and with the trend away from manual trannies...well that cuts a lot of cars out of my consideration entirely. Most newer BMWs don't really interest me either.

Again, like with Audis - I respect the cars for what they are....but my disappointment with (most) new BMWs and the direction BMW is going and has been going recently (last 10? years) just leaves me - well - not terribly excited. Even the M cars have generally been too big & bulky (& grand tourer like) for my tastes - even if they admittedly have all been brilliant cars....just not for me.

Well the 1 series got me interested again and I've been very excited about the M235 (still have yet to drive one)....for a few months now I've been pretty sure that the M235 (or an M2) was my future next car (within the next 2 years) and I really think BMW has done a great thing with the car...though to be honest I think the Porsche 718 is now more likely my future next vehicle.

[NYHoustonman]

Originally Posted by Winoman

I think the Porsche 718 is now more likely my future next vehicle.

If it exists!

Oh, God, I hope it exists...

[wazzza]

Originally Posted by trinim3

I'll leave out the subjective opinions such as for essentially the same price as a M235i (particularly if you buy slightly used) the S4 is more practical, looks classier, has a more luxurious interior (despite being 6yrs old) and is more prestigious. It also has an actual dual-clutch gearbox and women actually like being in it or being seen in it (if that matters to you), and it has the added benefit of being able to drive to the slopes during the winter.

But I realize that most on this forum will disagree with all of those subjective points as this is a M235i forum. So to each his own. If you disagree so be it, please don't let me rain on your parade.

One thing we can all agree on is that if having fun to you means going sideways and that's important to you, then the M235i is most definitely better in that regard.

Flame-suit on.

Joining the party late, but had to comment on this one

I agree with most of the subjective things you mentioned, and they are fine. But something like "more prestigious" is a bit out of order. Who decides Audis (particularly S4/5) are more prestigious? Where I drive, I see Audis and Subarus like ants on the road. My M235i turns heads.

About women liking the car -- well, I am hoping that the "women" you are talking about are 99% in the car for the driver and perhaps 1% for the car. If not, you've got the equation wrong. Even for those who like the car, it depends right? The women you know may like the S4/5 because that is what you have. The women I know me prefer getting in the M235i because that's what I have.

I just wanted to point these out as these aren't even subjective -- they have no basis for a discussion. It is like me saying that I am hot because women I know (my ex's/girlfriend) tells me that I am.

Also, in regards to the very friendly responses your posts are getting in here, this may be relevant

Cheers.

[onatuesday]

Originally Posted by utsavized

Joining the party late, but had to comment on this one

I agree with most of the subjective things you mentioned, and they are fine. But something like "more prestigious" is a bit out of order. Who decides Audis (particularly S4/5) are more prestigious? Where I drive, I see Audis and Subarus like ants on the road. My M235i turns heads.

About women liking the car -- well, I am hoping that the "women" you are talking about are 99% in the car for the driver and perhaps 1% for the car. If not, you've got the equation wrong. Even for those who like the car, it depends right? The women you know may like the S4/5 because that is what you have. The women I know me prefer getting in the M235i because that's what I have.

I just wanted to point these out as these aren't even subjective -- they have no basis for a discussion. It is like me saying that I am hot because women I know (my ex's/girlfriend) tells me that I am.

Also, in regards to the very friendly responses your posts are getting in here, this may be relevant

Cheers.

Touche! Good use of an iconic movie clip. The thing that bothers me about the trolling remarks is that I was minding my business on the M4/Audi forums not caring that m235i enthusiasts were loving their cars. But then I see this thread absolutely railing on the S4/S5 with a lot of inaccuracies and unfair characterizations. I therefore felt the need to provide a different perspective as I'm sure there are prospective buyers on these forums so I wanted them to see both sides of the coin.
As you can see the thread is now filled with much more accurate and fair opinions than it was when it started. As I said if someone gets a m235i i could totally understand why but at the same token don't be critical of the m235i's competition just to make yourself feel better.

So in response to your well played Youtube "This is Sparta" clip my analogy would be yes I went in to 'enemy' territory to defend my country but ultimately it was ye who cast the first stone. But it's all in good fun. At the end of the day we're all car enthusiasts and competition is a good thing

[CONTROL ONE]

When I was cross-shopping the M235i against Audi (I've owned an B5 S4 for the past 6 years), it wasn't against the S4/S5, that's not even its market. It was against the S3.

S4/S5 is 335/435 - is it that hard to figure out? The Audis are huge compared to the 2.

[wazzza]

Originally Posted by trinim3

Touche! Good use of an iconic movie clip. The thing that bothers me about the trolling remarks is that I was minding my business on the M4/Audi forums not caring that m235i enthusiasts were loving their cars. But then I see this thread absolutely railing on the S4/S5 with a lot of inaccuracies and unfair characterizations. I therefore felt the need to provide a different perspective as I'm sure there are prospective buyers on these forums so I wanted them to see both sides of the coin.
As you can see the thread is now filled with much more accurate and fair opinions than it was when it started. As I said if someone gets a m235i i could totally understand why but at the same token don't be critical of the m235i's competition just to make yourself feel better.

So in response to your well played Youtube "This is Sparta" clip my analogy would be yes I went in to 'enemy' territory to defend my country but ultimately it was ye who cast the first stone. But it's all in good fun. At the end of the day we're all car enthusiasts and competition is a good thing

All in good sport man... We all have our preferences, biases, favorites... no wrong or right there. Not that we are arguing about heaven and earth here - both are great cars, albeit with different heritage/branding. So be it. The point is to enjoy every dollar of the 50K+ price tag!

[sukotto]

Originally Posted by onatuesday

The S5 V6T is slightly slower than a S4. Furthermore, the S5 with a V8 has even less performance - (only better sound)

Here are Motortrend's numbers (keep in mind same magazine - same test):
M235i
0-60: 4.4s
1/4: 13s@106.6mph
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...son/specs.html

S4
0-60: 4.4s
1/4: 13s@ 105.6mph
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...lac_specs.html

As you can see from above, objectively they are actually very evenly matched and any difference would likely come down to the driver.

Also keep in mind that the tuner market for the V6T is quite robust since it's been out for awhile. Therefore, you're likely to encounter a sleeper S4 with a tune.
a Revo tune for example (just a stage 1 with no boltons!) is putting down 370hp to the wheels and will hit 192mph.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fo2-oyDcs8c


I'll leave out the subjective opinions such as for essentially the same price as a M235i (particularly if you buy slightly used) the S4 is more practical, looks classier, has a more luxurious interior (despite being 6yrs old) and is more prestigious. It also has an actual dual-clutch gearbox and women actually like being in it or being seen in it (if that matters to you), and it has the added benefit of being able to drive to the slopes during the winter.

But I realize that most on this forum will disagree with all of those subjective points as this is a M235i forum. So to each his own. If you disagree so be it, please don't let me rain on your parade.

One thing we can all agree on is that if having fun to you means going sideways and that's important to you, then the M235i is most definitely better in that regard.

Flame-suit on.

I had both of these for an extended test drive recently. Was looking to spend in the $45k range for a used car. The M235i was definitely smaller, more nimble feeling. Very fun car, a bit more fun to drive. The S5's engine felt a bit more eager and responsive; the torque is massive. The S5 felt bigger but hid it's weight well with the sport diff. and adaptive suspension settings. 6MT on the S5 was a nicer clutch than the M235i. Styling is subjective (S5 looks better to my eyes, I like the 4 series styling over the 2-series). S5 is definitely much more upscale feeling, was more of a luxury cruiser and a sports coupe in one. The M235i was not as refined. On a back road, as noted above, the M235i felt tighter and quicker, but it was close, the S5 was no slouch either.

I can get a CPO 2013 loaded 6MT S5 with 12k miles for $45k. I can get the same CPO 2014 M235i for about the same price. Biggest difference is that one is a $61k MSRP car, and one is a $51k car. All things considered, I would lean toward the M235i as a pure driver. I would say the S5 is the better complete package though given that they cost the same used. And the S5 blows the 435i out of the water, even with M-sport.

The 135i is the most fun car out of these 3 though. I personally would look at that (cheaper than the 235i) if you need 4 seats, and then step up to the S5 if you are looking to spend more. It just seems the M235i is giving you a 135i with a bit nicer interior. Not a great value IMO; I would take the 135i over it for how the steering feels, and it being lighter. The S5 isn't cheap either, but it feels like a car that costs what it does; a fun weekend toy and a superb luxury ride to work each day.

I would wait for an M2 if price weren't an issue!

[den525]

135 is just too outdated

[Cpdbeemer]

235s wider track and wheelbase has fixed the twitchy handling of the 135 platform. I cannot put the S5 on the same level, it is more like the 435. A great car but more a grand tourer than true drivers car. If you are not really pushing it then sure any of the three. But for the drivers car....there is only one choice to me.

[crbalch]

Originally Posted by den525

135 is just too outdated

I agree with this, which is why I'm shifting to the M235i next month. Looked at the S3 in comparison, just couldn't get myself to switch.

[crbalch]

Originally Posted by den525

135 is just too outdated

I agree with this, which is why I'm shifting to the M235i next month. Looked at the S3 in comparison, just couldn't get myself to switch.