[pikcachu]

what did you do with the 135is?

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

what did you do with the 135is?

traded it in.

[pikcachu]

I thought that was the best car ever built....... I'm pretty sure now it's the 1M.... I see the trend

[BMWJS]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

traded it in.

Nice purchase! From previous debate, which has the better exhaust, 1M or 135is?

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by BMWJS

Nice purchase! From previous debate, which has the better exhaust, 1M or 135is?

to be honest i think the 135is exhaust is the more 'enthusiastic' exhaust for sure. the 1M has a very deep, heavy note but not raspy or popping like the 135is does. I really like the depth of the 1M exhaust, but it's definitely not as crazy sounding as the 135is one is...

[nachob]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

replying to myself i suppose.

NEVERMIND. i bought a 1M last weekend.

and it is FUCKING EPIC. if you wanted a 1M....buy one. you will not regret it. the end.

Congrats, 1M is epic.

I know this is a 2 series forum so I am not here to say that the 1M is better than M2 or whatever but there are lot of guys here that are only look at numbers and cannot understand why someone would buy a 1M over M2 or pay as much.

Let me explain: The M2 will be better technically for sure and it will have more power and probably better throttle response which is a huge thing for me. Being as I am a regular guy, I also am concerned about paying so much for a car with little warranty left but what makes the 1M special and worth considering is that it is the last of a breed of cars made by BMW.

The 1M was the last of the car that when put on a balance tips on the side of raw performance. It is a race-y car you can drive on the street. It only comes with a manual transmisison, it only comes with a fixed M suspension with stiff springs, it has the last of the M hydraulic fast steering racks and a really loud exhaust. It does not have buttons to make your steering cushy. It does not have buttons to make your shocks soft to match the softer EDC springs. It does not have automated launch control. It does not have digitally enhanced engine sound. It has one button to make the throttle response quicker and angrier than baseline!

So while the M2 will be superior technically, after seeing all the new BMW offerings, my guess is that the M2 will have buttons to slow and speed the steering, soften the shocks, digitally enhanced active sound, mandatory idrive, etc. It will come in automatic and manual, sunroof and smooth, etc. It will be a more comfortable car and that is nice but there is something lost compared to the rawness of the 1M. The M2 will be like a thorougbred, well trained horse that can go fast and you can fall asleep riding it. The 1M is barely broken in Mustang that if you hit it too hard will knock you on your butt. It is an exciting car at low speeds and you cannot fall asleep driving it.

So again, let me reiterate, I am only making these points for those of you that can't understand why someone would buy used 1M over a new car. The 1M is not for everyone. You have to give up things like the cushy active this and that or the automatic, but it is still a special car for many especially when the future seems to be that BMW is now making luxury cars you can race instead of race cars you can drive on street. The balance has tipped the other way.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by nachob

Congrats, 1M is epic.

I know this is a 2 series forum so I am not here to say that the 1M is better than M2 or whatever but there are lot of guys here that are only look at numbers and cannot understand why someone would buy a 1M over M2 or pay as much.

Let me explain: The M2 will be better technically for sure and it will have more power and probably better throttle response which is a huge thing for me. Being as I am a regular guy, I also am concerned about paying so much for a car with little warranty left but what makes the 1M special and worth considering is that it is the last of a breed of cars made by BMW.

The 1M was the last of the car that when put on a balance tips on the side of raw performance. It is a race-y car you can drive on the street. It only comes with a manual transmisison, it only comes with a fixed M suspension with stiff springs, it has the last of the M hydraulic fast steering racks and a really loud exhaust. It does not have buttons to make your steering cushy. It does not have buttons to make your shocks soft to match the softer EDC springs. It does not have automated launch control. It does not have digitally enhanced engine sound. It has one button to make the throttle response quicker and angrier than baseline!

So while the M2 will be superior technically, after seeing all the new BMW offerings, my guess is that the M2 will have buttons to slow and speed the steering, soften the shocks, digitally enhanced active sound, mandatory idrive, etc. It will come in automatic and manual, sunroof and smooth, etc. It will be a more comfortable car and that is nice but there is something lost compared to the rawness of the 1M. The M2 will be like a thorougbred, well trained horse that can go fast and you can fall asleep riding it. The 1M is barely broken in Mustang that if you hit it too hard will knock you on your butt. It is an exciting car at low speeds and you cannot fall asleep driving it.

So again, let me reiterate, I am only making these points for those of you that can't understand why someone would buy used 1M over a new car. The 1M is not for everyone. You have to give up things like the cushy active this and that or the automatic, but it is still a special car for many especially when the future seems to be that BMW is now making luxury cars you can race instead of race cars you can drive on street. The balance has tipped the other way.

NachoB: i completely agree. i am absolutely floored at how visceral the driving experience is in the 1M. I have never driven anything which is so direct, so alert, and so reactive. It feels like your hands are controlling a beast....and you're right it's a beast that can bite back....ask me how i know in my first 6 days of driving it! ha.

in the M2's defense...it will be a good car i'm sure. The M2 will be 'faster' and more technically capable....but my bet is that it will not be as 'fun'. Of course some people measure 'fun' by 0-60 times and nurburgring lap times (completely irrelevant to most of us). I measure 'fun' by how a car makes me feel.....and the 1M makes me feel like a 5 year-old who has been handed the keys to a completely wicked sports car that is unfiltered and full of enthusiasm. The new M2 is not going to be a 'limited edition' so BMW simply cannot make the M2 as fun as the M3/M4. Why? The M3/M4 make BMW way more money than an M2 will-----making the M2 good WILL definitely take sales away from the M4. These days the M4 engine isn't even that different than the M2's potential N55 engine in testing-----it used to be that the V8 differentiated the M3 from the 1M; but now even the engine-type has commonality.

BMW is all about profitability these days. My guess is the only way the M2 will kick ass is if it's a "limited edition" release like the 1M. if it a mass production model, it will not be as exciting as everyone is expecting.

I've driven R8s, 911s, Caymans (Caymen? lol), Boxsters, and all types of sports cars....but i've arguably never had as much fun I've felt in the 1M. There is a reason this car has become the stuff of legends.....and anyone who denies the enjoyment of the 1M either (A) hasn't driven one, or (B) doesn't want a pure driving experience.

[Robin_NL]

As already stated the M2 will be a way better faster car in many ways and that should be the case as that's the way the evolution of cars in general goes.

But funfactor and excitement are many times not part of that evolution in cars for the last decade or so. That's the case with many new BMWs imo. Let's hope the M2 will be a natural successor to the 1M.

Cheers
Robin

[nachob]

Originally Posted by Robin_NL

As already stated the M2 will be a way better faster car in many ways and that should be the case as that's the way the evolution of cars in general goes.

But funfactor and excitement are many times not part of that evolution in cars for the last decade or so. That's the case with many new BMWs imo. Let's hope the M2 will be a natural successor to the 1M.

Cheers
Robin

yes! I'm hoping too! Not just hoping I'm writing letters to BMW asking that they offer raw versions of the M2. They already make many cars that are luxurious they need a raw car and the M2 is the last hope! I wish Kay Siegler was still the man.... He got it!

[nachob]

Now that I have explained my thoughts on why the 1M is still relevant and cool, here is a list of what excites me about the M2 and I think will be better than the 1M in order of importance:

1. Throttle response
The N55 has better throttle response and top of my 1M wish-list was better and more linear throttle response. I can't wait to drive it.

2. Better aerodynamics
The 1M was an aerodynamic brickhouse on wheels. The air curtains were an invention to improve it but it was like those deflectors they put on semi trucks. Yes, they help but it's still a semi. I personally don't really care about the aerodynamics here in the US because we can't really go fast but in Europe it hindered it's top speed performance. On the other hand, I have been in many super aerodynamic high speed cars and frankly it was almost boring going fast. When I hit 150mph on the autobahn, YOU KNEW IT! The wind noise, engine noise made it an experience, but still, the M2 will be better.

3. Better High speed stability
Again, what made the 1M so cool was that it was slightly "dangerous" with its short wheel base and quick to let go sideways. You can see the Stig lose it on Top Gear. The longer wheelbase will be better and less bouncy while still keeping the good overall size of the car.

4. Colors
I really did want an Interlagos Blue 1M but not an option. You will be able to get cool colors with M2.

I just hope you can get a club-racer version without idrive and screen, non-dynamic suspension and an alcantara or cloth speed interior.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by nachob

Now that I have explained my thoughts on why the 1M is still relevant and cool, here is a list of what excites me about the M2 and I think will be better than the 1M in order of importance:

1. Throttle response
The N55 has better throttle response and top of my 1M wish-list was better and more linear throttle response. I can't wait to drive it.

2. Better aerodynamics
The 1M was an aerodynamic brickhouse on wheels. The air curtains were an invention to improve it but it was like those deflectors they put on semi trucks. Yes, they help but it's still a semi. I personally don't really care about the aerodynamics here in the US because we can't really go fast but in Europe it hindered it's top speed performance. On the other hand, I have been in many super aerodynamic high speed cars and frankly it was almost boring going fast. When I hit 150mph on the autobahn, YOU KNEW IT! The wind noise, engine noise made it an experience, but still, the M2 will be better.

3. Better High speed stability
Again, what made the 1M so cool was that it was slightly "dangerous" with its short wheel base and quick to let go sideways. You can see the Stig lose it on Top Gear. The longer wheelbase will be better and less bouncy while still keeping the good overall size of the car.

4. Colors
I really did want an Interlagos Blue 1M but not an option. You will be able to get cool colors with M2.

I just hope you can get a club-racer version without idrive and screen, non-dynamic suspension and an alcantara or cloth speed interior.

NachoB: Some of those points I can see but I can't agree with throttle reponse. I owned an N55 135is and the throttle response of the 1M is definitely sharper. In M mode the 1M's throttle response is totally magical!

Weren't you looking for another 1M? why did you sell yours in the first place? just curious...

[DVC]

Originally Posted by nachob

...
3. Better High speed stability
Again, what made the 1M so cool was that it was slightly "dangerous" with its short wheel base and quick to let go sideways. You can see the Stig lose it on Top Gear. The longer wheelbase will be better and less bouncy while still keeping the good overall size of the car.
...

Interesting and thoughtful post from a former 1M owner. A couple things I'm curious about, as I read more and more thoughts on the 1M, and musings on the M2...

Wheelbase/Overall Size - it seems everyone is differentiating the M2 in terms of having a significantly longer wheelbase while being roughly the same size car overall. But in reality, the M235's wheelbase is 105.9", compared to the 1M's at 104.7". I can't see 1.2" making a huge difference. (M3/4 cars, by contrast, have a 110.7" wheelbase; an additional 6" is certainly enough to feel significantly different.) The M235 is about 2.5" longer, an inch wider and 0.4" taller than the 135, so the M2 will also likely be about the same amounts bigger than the 1M.

Weight - I've also seen some speculation that the M2 will weigh-in around 3300 pounds, similar to the 1M. As much as I would love to see this become a reality, I highly doubt it. The 1M weighed in at just under 3300 pounds (comparing 6MTs, 24 pounds lighter than the 135). Even with all the highly touted weight savings measures on the F80 M3, comparing 6MTs, it came in only 5 pounds lighter than the F30 335i (and the 335 8AT is actually 40 pounds lighter than the M3 DCT). So I don't think we can really count on a significant weight savings for the M2 compared to its M235 series derivative....which weighs in at 3505 6MT/3535 8AT. The M2 will likely be close to 3500 pounds - that's a BIG jump up from the 3296 pound 1M.

Will the M2 be a bigger/heavier car with similar driving dynamics to the 1M? Probably not, as there are countless chassis/mechanical differences that will factor-in. But looking at the sizes/weights, it would certainly seem that the M2 will not drive like a long wheelbase version of the 1M as some seem to envision.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by DVC

Interesting and thoughtful post from a former 1M owner. A couple things I'm curious about, as I read more and more thoughts on the 1M, and musings on the M2...

Wheelbase/Overall Size - it seems everyone is differentiating the M2 in terms of having a significantly longer wheelbase while being roughly the same size car overall. But in reality, the M235's wheelbase is 105.9", compared to the 1M's at 104.7". I can't see 1.2" making a huge difference. (M3/4 cars, by contrast, have a 110.7" wheelbase; an additional 6" is certainly enough to feel significantly different.) The M235 is about 2.5" longer, an inch wider and 0.4" taller than the 135, so the M2 will also likely be about the same amounts bigger than the 1M.

Weight - I've also seen some speculation that the M2 will weigh-in around 3300 pounds, similar to the 1M. As much as I would love to see this become a reality, I highly doubt it. The 1M weighed in at just under 3300 pounds (comparing 6MTs, 24 pounds lighter than the 135). Even with all the highly touted weight savings measures on the F80 M3, comparing 6MTs, it came in only 5 pounds lighter than the F30 335i (and the 335 8AT is actually 40 pounds lighter than the M3 DCT). So I don't think we can really count on a significant weight savings for the M2 compared to its M235 series derivative....which weighs in at 3505 6MT/3535 8AT. The M2 will likely be close to 3500 pounds - that's a BIG jump up from the 3296 pound 1M.

Will the M2 be a bigger/heavier car with similar driving dynamics to the 1M? Probably not, as there are countless chassis/mechanical differences that will factor-in. But looking at the sizes/weights, it would certainly seem that the M2 will not drive like a long wheelbase version of the 1M as some seem to envision.

Yes, I agree, I didn't expect it to be lighter either as the trend is to add a lot weight to them. I also disagree with the myth that it is all safety related. The bloat comes from wiring, electronics, displays, knobs, mirror motors, seat motors, EDC shocks, sunroofs, etc. The safety equipment has not really changed in the last couple of years but all the stuff so many of you demand is bloating the cars.

An inch or two in wheel base can make a significant difference in the handling, but I will wait and see. I believe the 2 series is longer than the 1.

Finally, on throttle response, the M button simply remapped the throttle and made it very aggressive and touchy. It was cool and it hid some of the lag but you couldn't really drive with it on all the time. The car had so much torque and it was light that it was tiring to drive with M button on. Some did it I'm sure but throttle management was critical in the 1M and the M button did not help. I actually turned it off in autocrosses because it was too sensitive and hard to modulate on the edge.

I hope the aluminum suspension components make it to the M2 from the M3 as the 1M had them. I also hope they bring the air to water intercooler into the M2. Coupled with an N55 motor that should reduce lag significantly since there is so much less plumbing with the water intercooler. I'm very excited about this in the M3. I almost called it innovation but the Maseratti Bi-Turbo and Mercedes S600 Lorinzer also had air-water intercoolers.

My only worry with this, is that I see a lot of cooling system failures on older BMWs and adding one more thing that can fail in the chain worries me a bit. The first thing I looked at when I saw the intercooler was that it was all metal instead of the plastic crap that they make the radiators, thermostat housings and expansion tanks out of.

[bradleyland]

I don't think they're going to bring the air-to-water IC or the twin turbo setup over to the N55B30. I can't see why they'd do that instead of just detuning the S55 and dropping it in there. I suspect the N55B30 will be an N55 with upgraded pistons, crank, oil sump (maybe), and a larger traditional intercooler.

[M3 Adjuster]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

replying to myself i suppose.

NEVERMIND. i bought a 1M last weekend.

and it is FUCKING EPIC. if you wanted a 1M....buy one. you will not regret it. the end.

Lol. At least you owned up. Nice. !!

Congratulations !!

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

replying to myself i suppose.

NEVERMIND. i bought a 1M last weekend.

and it is FUCKING EPIC. if you wanted a 1M....buy one. you will not regret it. the end.

Hate to be that guy, but I always knew you'd end up in a 1M The E82 chassis is clearly a favorite of yours, and I can definitely understand why. I still miss the size and agility of my 135i sometimes.

[m3dragon]

I think one thing people looking at the 2M need to consider.

1M is reliable older tech, but if something breaks it is easier to fix. HPFP is a issue that is random to hit but for most owners it was never a issue. I have 48K and still running strong but that is my experience with the 1M. Think it as the best of the analog cars.

M2 and even the new M3/4 have so many coolers and other parts that if you are looking to keep the car for any length of time be prepared to shell out a LOT for up keep. All that tech and performance comes with a price. So unless you lease it get the extended warranty. Example if it comes with ceramic brakes, 10-13K for 4 brakes no thank you..... The M2 is tempting though as she does look good if any of the renderings are close.

Only complaint is the face off the 1M is that only a mother could love in certain angles, others not so bad. At least she has a nice ass so what ever floats your boat HAHA.

[IEDEI]

I think the 1M is one of THE best looking cars ever....I get so many compliments on the car that I've lost track of how much love it gets every week....

just like old BMWs...they were SUPPOSED to be boxy, functional, and taut....the new cars are losing that in favour of softer lines and more curves. Some people may like that....not me.

BTW several months onwards after the original posts here; the 1M blows my mind every week....it is simply a spectacular machine to drive....and to look at...and has a mythical quality very difficult to replicate. For all of your sakes, I hope the M2 at least tries to achieve something similar because the 1M is very very special.

[W///]

Originally Posted by m3dragon

I think one thing people looking at the 2M need to consider.

1M is reliable older tech, but if something breaks it is easier to fix. HPFP is a issue that is random to hit but for most owners it was never a issue. I have 48K and still running strong but that is my experience with the 1M. Think it as the best of the analog cars.

M2 and even the new M3/4 have so many coolers and other parts that if you are looking to keep the car for any length of time be prepared to shell out a LOT for up keep. All that tech and performance comes with a price. So unless you lease it get the extended warranty. Example if it comes with ceramic brakes, 10-13K for 4 brakes no thank you..... The M2 is tempting though as she does look good if any of the renderings are close.

Only complaint is the face off the 1M is that only a mother could love in certain angles, others not so bad. At least she has a nice ass so what ever floats your boat HAHA.

I might agree with you on the M3/4, but I don't think it'll be that bad on the M2. We fully expect some type of a reworked N55, but I don't think it'll be all out like the S55, so again, it's technically old tech as well. And if anything, by the time the M2 comes out in 2016, the M3/4 would have been out for 2-3 years already, so it's not completely new either.

But I hear you though, I think of reliability and maintenance as well. Apart from the diesels, the M2, being more or less a parts bin kind of like the M2 makes me a bit more comfortable if anything.

P.S. I'm keeping mine low optioned anyway if I get one.

[bdaddylo]

Originally Posted by m3dragon

I think one thing people looking at the 2M need to consider.

1M is reliable older tech, but if something breaks it is easier to fix. HPFP is a issue that is random to hit but for most owners it was never a issue. I have 48K and still running strong but that is my experience with the 1M. Think it as the best of the analog cars.

M2 and even the new M3/4 have so many coolers and other parts that if you are looking to keep the car for any length of time be prepared to shell out a LOT for up keep. All that tech and performance comes with a price. So unless you lease it get the extended warranty. Example if it comes with ceramic brakes, 10-13K for 4 brakes no thank you..... The M2 is tempting though as she does look good if any of the renderings are close.

Only complaint is the face off the 1M is that only a mother could love in certain angles, others not so bad. At least she has a nice ass so what ever floats your boat HAHA.

This entire discussion of less analog is hilarious. The only things that were analog on the 1M were the manual seats and parking brake. Pretty much everything else is monitored electronically. The M2's DME will be locked down just like the ones in the current N55 and S55, so if you want to change the engine parameters, you'll need to go with a piggyback tune.

BMW has yet to offer a car with carbon ceramic brakes as standard equipment so why would it do so for the M2. Also, CCBs are only $8k on the M3 and I highly doubt BMW would charge more on an M2.

The fact of the matter is the M2 will outperform the 1M in all categories with exception to rawness and collectability. The F22 is a far superior chassis compared to the E82 which is why the M235i nearly handles as well as a 1M despite the M235i's 200 additional pounds, smaller tires, 15 less bhp, and 1 less turbo.

[m3dragon]

Analog in reference to suspension and setting for shocks. All cars are digital now DUH. Keep it in the context of what we are referring to. M mode with M suspension setup (if offered), steering ratio changes yada yada. That is the analog we are refering to not the car.

Will the M2 be a better car, I sure hope so as they have had a lot more time to do tech since the 1M. That is a mute point I think we all agree.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by m3dragon

Analog in reference to suspension and setting for shocks. All cars are digital now DUH. Keep it in the context of what we are referring to. M mode with M suspension setup (if offered), steering ratio changes yada yada. That is the analog we are refering to not the car.

Will the M2 be a better car, I sure hope so as they have had a lot more time to do tech since the 1M. That is a mute point I think we all agree.

+1