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      03-08-2014, 12:50 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Double Bubble View Post
I say bring back Mr. Bangle or fire all design department people including Mr. Karim
I think I was part of the few people who actually liked his designs on launch. Overall I don't think they were ugly, I just thought the details could've used some work (i.e. pre-LCI E90 taillights) but the shape of the actual cars had this understated european look and gave off the allusion that they were light cars in terms of weight vs. the FXX chassis where you look at them and you just know that they're heavy (I'm looking at you F10 5-Series).

I think the F10 is a very good looking car but you put it beside the E60 it's just a big difference and not all in a good way.
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      03-08-2014, 12:52 PM   #90
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This thing is just embarrassing. I'm really starting to wonder what;s going on at BMW. This looks like some econo Japanese car.
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      03-08-2014, 01:53 PM   #91
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      03-08-2014, 02:12 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by shanecarmaster1 View Post
It's almost weird to veer into other communities, Audi or Mercedes comes to mind, where they're constantly improving their products for the better of their customers. Does everyone know that the new Audi S3 actually likes to break its tail on a track? Do you know who STILL USES HIGH REVVING V8 ENGINES? Do you know who isn't cheapening their interiors? Do you know who actually invests some time and effort into their designs? Do you know who actually tries to be innovative and move forward in a positive way? Not BMW.
1. S3 likes to break it's tail on the track. What? and BMW's don't?

2. High Revving V8 Engines. Does BMW not have high revving V8s? Look at the AMG engines that were used in the current generation, those are already stated to be gone next-gen. Everyone is downsizing. It's so easy to take an engine (from Lamborghini), tweak it and throw it in a car vs. having to build one in house. This isn't even about which engine is better, it's strictly about the resources available and Audi has this in spades over BMW and it's not even close. This point/argument is stupid.

3. Who's cheapening their interiors? Mercedes is the only one that I can say has the best interiors in terms of quality. But this is subjective. All 3 marques have their high's and low's.

4. Innovative? What, the i8 and i3 aren't innovative? Who else is mass producing their own CFRP and planning on using it extensively throughout their lineup?

Nothing you stated or pointed out proves anything. It's just things you (the enthusiast) dislike about BMW but you don't see that all 3 German marques are more or less the same now. You can't say one is better than the other.

Let me ask you something. Which marque(s) are part of a bigger auto group? Not BMW.
You completely missed the whole point of his rant.
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      03-08-2014, 03:07 PM   #93
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      03-08-2014, 03:13 PM   #94
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You all need to get over it.
This is not about America. This is about building competitive cars for a global market , cars which appeal to many customer bases that have defining needs and lifestyles. BMW do not depend on one market.

I remember BMW franchises rejecting MINI back in the pre-launch days , they not only missed the opportunity of the success of MINI but they lost the BMW franchise.

And please stop with the comparisons to GM.
BMW has a strategy GM did not. In the mid-2000s BMW were showcasing innovations for Efficient Dynamics , pre-warning of environmental legislation.
GM showcased a new Hummer.

If any of you came to Europe , you would be shocked at what BMW sell as a 1er or 3er in its most basic format.
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      03-08-2014, 03:48 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
You all need to get over it.
This is not about America. This is about building competitive cars for a global market , cars which appeal to many customer bases that have defining needs and lifestyles. BMW do not depend on one market.

I remember BMW franchises rejecting MINI back in the pre-launch days , they not only missed the opportunity of the success of MINI but they lost the BMW franchise.

And please stop with the comparisons to GM.
BMW has a strategy GM did not. In the mid-2000s BMW were showcasing innovations for Efficient Dynamics , pre-warning of environmental legislation.
GM showcased a new Hummer.

If any of you came to Europe , you would be shocked at what BMW sell as a 1er or 3er in its most basic format.
You're right , it's not about America...it's about the fact that BMW has produced some ghastly FRONT wheel drive joke.
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      03-08-2014, 07:04 PM   #96
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Seems this is the answer to the Mercedes A class..

Come to Europe cars like this will appeal a lot over here..

Very much like the 1 series

Remember BMW is a German brand, not American!

They know what they are doing
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      03-08-2014, 08:58 PM   #97
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Do I hate this car? Yes. Do I understand it? Yes. It's to compete with the A class in Europe and broaden the market in the US.

To whoever slammed BMW and praised Audi. Let's see what Audi is a part of: VW, Lamborghini, Ducati, Porsche, Seat, Bentley, and of course Audi themselves. BMW? Mini, rolls Royce, and their motorcycles. That's it.

So why is BMW pumping out models left and right? Because they are a much smaller company that's why. They need to do it to survive in the FUTURE. People complain about this car (myself included) but who cares as long as they are still producing innovative and driver oriented cars. i3, i8, M235i, m3/4. Don't like this car? Don't buy it! Buy their driver focused model instead. BMW is still sticking to rwd and proper manual transmissions in more models than any other competitor. Have you guys failed to realize that?

Oh and last I checked, even with the VW group owning more brands, Audi is still WAY below MB and BMW. Oh and those high revving V8's in audis will be gone. Don't fool yourself.

Brands are unfortunately ruled by the governments that regulate them. I laugh at ignorant people who slam BMW for making so called "bad moves". If it was a free for all, then we'd all be driving high revving NA motors on lightweight cars with low belt lines and much better looks.
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      03-08-2014, 11:16 PM   #98
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Ford is the new BMW. BMW is the new GM. Sorry Scott. BMW are proving themselves a dinosaur with every new silly rollout. After 7 BMW's...I'm done.
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      03-09-2014, 07:57 AM   #99
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Losing exclusivity

This car weakens the brand of the Ultimate driving machine but they still make the best driving machine in their classes, so I'll be sticking with them as I am not a millionaire but want the best I can afford.

I think people here should focus more on the M and I sub divisions, especially M which make good looking, relatively affordable cars with super car performance.

Do I like this 2 thing, No but if it means Bm will stay in business and continue to make the 3,5 etc then I can live with it.
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      03-09-2014, 09:29 AM   #100
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BMW have become such a mess with their model naming. What makes that be a 2 and not a 1 series? BMW would have been better off issuing a statement that essentially said, "We are going to call whatever car we make WTF we damn well want to."

All the best.
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      03-09-2014, 10:19 AM   #101
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BMW's innovation is an illusion. They are not making anything different than other leading brands. In fact they follow many innovations of other brands. This is not bad though, it is just how it is. I am just tired of fanboys yelling out propaganda.
Anyway, this car is ugly, period. Will it sell? Maybe. Do I care? Not. What I expect from BMW is to continue building cars that people loved in 80's and 90's. All recently released models do not meet that criteria.
I decided to skip f3x, and sad about X4, so skipping it too (i.e. cars in my price range). I will keep my e90 until wheels fall of and if there is nothing I like, Audi, MB, Porsche (Macan or older 911/Panamera) will be my cars to select from. Also, I am aware BMW care less about selling cars to me, they got Russia, Asia, and other markets where people will buy these half-decent cars; however, BMW might want to remember that BMW has become popular in US before it got popular in Asia and Russia, and I am sure that if it looses its popularity in, it will reflect negatively in other markets.
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      03-09-2014, 01:29 PM   #102
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      03-09-2014, 05:45 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
You all need to get over it.
This is not about America. This is about building competitive cars for a global market , cars which appeal to many customer bases that have defining needs and lifestyles. BMW do not depend on one market.

I remember BMW franchises rejecting MINI back in the pre-launch days , they not only missed the opportunity of the success of MINI but they lost the BMW franchise.

And please stop with the comparisons to GM.
BMW has a strategy GM did not. In the mid-2000s BMW were showcasing innovations for Efficient Dynamics , pre-warning of environmental legislation.
GM showcased a new Hummer.

If any of you came to Europe , you would be shocked at what BMW sell as a 1er or 3er in its most basic format.


lol^

We don't have to get over anything, it is you that has to get over the fact, You let your company design something so repugnant & hilarious.

Secondly, why then market that garbage in America, instead of something that people's been asking for..? Such as a small hatchback and wagons. (ie: M135i) Lost touch with reality?

Lastly, if you are looking back to 2000's for a profile of GM/Ford, then no wonder why BMW's hubris is pushing your core customers away. GM is a new company bro...



BTW... the ford Escape gets 32mpg.
And is a respectable SUV to be caught driving. I don't think I could take the sustained laughes, if I pulled up with a BMW Active Tourer... it's so embarrassing, it taints the whole brand.
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      03-09-2014, 06:45 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by georgere View Post
BMW's innovation is an illusion. They are not making anything different than other leading brands. In fact they follow many innovations of other brands. This is not bad though, it is just how it is. I am just tired of fanboys yelling out propaganda.
Anyway, this car is ugly, period. Will it sell? Maybe. Do I care? Not. What I expect from BMW is to continue building cars that people loved in 80's and 90's. All recently released models do not meet that criteria.
I decided to skip f3x, and sad about X4, so skipping it too (i.e. cars in my price range). I will keep my e90 until wheels fall of and if there is nothing I like, Audi, MB, Porsche (Macan or older 911/Panamera) will be my cars to select from. Also, I am aware BMW care less about selling cars to me, they got Russia, Asia, and other markets where people will buy these half-decent cars; however, BMW might want to remember that BMW has become popular in US before it got popular in Asia and Russia, and I am sure that if it looses its popularity in, it will reflect negatively in other markets.
Sorry but out of the three volume Premium manufacturers out of Germany BMW is regarded as the most innovative at this time. Aluminium Spaceframes and LEDs are now past tense as BMW have caught up with this technology (Rolls-Royce Phantom) and in some cases surpassed it ( Laser-Light on the BMW i8.)
No other manufacturer has achieved the symbolic achievement of mass producing CFRP for volume production and in its most cost effective form. Any other competitor with CFRP in the same capability the customer pays for that because it is not produced in-house.
The G11 BMW 7er begins the Carbon Age for BMW. The competition know it is coming and whilst there is curiosity there is also concern. In June 2015 we will see everything become apparent.

The thing you should know about BMW is that in an ever changing industry there is only one constant. Adapt or die.
BMW have the ability to change as required yet still stand still on their sportier philosophy.
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      03-09-2014, 06:56 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Sorry but out of the three volume Premium manufacturers out of Germany BMW is regarded as the most innovative at this time. Aluminium Spaceframes and LEDs are now past tense as BMW have caught up with this technology (Rolls-Royce Phantom) and in some cases surpassed it ( Laser-Light on the BMW i8.)
No other manufacturer has achieved the symbolic achievement of mass producing CFRP for volume production and in its most cost effective form. Any other competitor with CFRP in the same capability the customer pays for that because it is not produced in-house.
The G11 BMW 7er begins the Carbon Age for BMW. The competition know it is coming and whilst there is curiosity there is also concern. In June 2015 we will see everything become apparent.

The thing you should know about BMW is that in an ever changing industry there is only one constant. Adapt or die.
BMW have the ability to change as required yet still stand still on their sportier philosophy.
Laser light..blah blah

How about led turn signals in any car that has xenons or led head lights??

Enough with saving led turn signals for the LCI only to remove them with the next model. It's absurd at this point.
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      03-09-2014, 06:59 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w3rkn View Post
lol^

We don't have to get over anything, it is you that has to get over the fact, You let your company design something so repugnant & hilarious.

Secondly, why then market that garbage in America, instead of something that people's been asking for..? Such as a small hatchback and wagons. (ie: M135i) Lost touch with reality?

Lastly, if you are looking back to 2000's for a profile of GM/Ford, then no wonder why BMW's hubris is pushing your core customers away. GM is a new company bro...


BTW... the ford Escape gets 32mpg.
And is a respectable SUV to be caught driving. I don't think I could take the sustained laughes, if I pulled up with a BMW Active Tourer... it's so embarrassing, it taints the whole brand.


Repugnant and hilarious? We call it sport orientated and competitive.
Its our response to a growth segment that continuously appeals to new customers. We know exactly who we are aiming for with the Active Tourer and we also look forward to a previous BMW customer who has had to leave the brand in order to grow their family unit.

That "Garbage" is being sent to America because the management see Active Tourer as a second car to a primary BMW. Some customers would trade domestic or import vans for a BMW.
You cannot support production for a large market based on five people from a forum in regards to the M135i. That is the Reality.

No one should be embarrassed to drive the Active Tourer as it drives well and if the car is being used as it was designed for. Then at least the owner knows that his BMW is not only flexible but fulfils his/her requirements perfectly.
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      03-09-2014, 07:24 PM   #107
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GM is a new company, now that is funny. 114 days supply of inventory sitting in their dealers and a couple million cars being recalled. Man I needed a good laugh especially with a $60 billion dollar loan, I could have started my own car company from scratch.
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      03-09-2014, 08:42 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Sorry but out of the three volume Premium manufacturers out of Germany BMW is regarded as the most innovative at this time. Aluminium Spaceframes and LEDs are now past tense as BMW have caught up with this technology (Rolls-Royce Phantom) and in some cases surpassed it ( Laser-Light on the BMW i8.)
No other manufacturer has achieved the symbolic achievement of mass producing CFRP for volume production and in its most cost effective form. Any other competitor with CFRP in the same capability the customer pays for that because it is not produced in-house.
The G11 BMW 7er begins the Carbon Age for BMW. The competition know it is coming and whilst there is curiosity there is also concern. In June 2015 we will see everything become apparent.

The thing you should know about BMW is that in an ever changing industry there is only one constant. Adapt or die.
BMW have the ability to change as required yet still stand still on their sportier philosophy.
Scott, I hear you but all the innovations you talk about are either costly upgrades (i.e. LED) or non-existing in the current models (CFRP, well except for I-brand). Anyhow, regular people don't buy cars for presence of LED or some other high tech alone. A car is a package. Does it make sense for me to spend 50K for car I barely like visually (i.e. design). Do I want to buy a new model car with last models engine (i.e. 335/435)? They talked about weight reduction, CFRP, etc. Where is that in F3x cars?
So maybe it is the most innovative in Germany, but that innovation exist in their labs and not in the cars you can buy today. About Rolls-Royce Phantom, I am not sure how this example is relevant on here - perhaps Ferrari/Aston Martin forum will be interested.
Anyway, I am skipping F-generation for reason that whatever has been released is not for me. Like I said, if I need a car soon, I'll spend 50K on Macan and be excited; otherwise, I'll wait for the next generation of BMW cars which according to you, Scott, will have the superior tech package. So we'll see.
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      03-09-2014, 09:27 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by georgere View Post
Scott, I hear you but all the innovations you talk about are either costly upgrades (i.e. LED) or non-existing in the current models (CFRP, well except for I-brand). Anyhow, regular people don't buy cars for presence of LED or some other high tech alone. A car is a package. Does it make sense for me to spend 50K for car I barely like visually (i.e. design). Do I want to buy a new model car with last models engine (i.e. 335/435)? They talked about weight reduction, CFRP, etc. Where is that in F3x cars?
So maybe it is the most innovative in Germany, but that innovation exist in their labs and not in the cars you can buy today. About Rolls-Royce Phantom, I am not sure how this example is relevant on here - perhaps Ferrari/Aston Martin forum will be interested.
Anyway, I am skipping F-generation for reason that whatever has been released is not for me. Like I said, if I need a car soon, I'll spend 50K on Macan and be excited; otherwise, I'll wait for the next generation of BMW cars which according to you, Scott, will have the superior tech package. So we'll see.
I doubt BMW is under the impression any of us owe them our business, and if a Macan ticks more boxes for you, and the price of ticking those boxes isn't an issue for you, then of course you will go down that route - just make sure you're not cutting off your nose to spite your face... many of the criticisms levelled against BMW these days can be aimed at the other Germans too.

I went for a wonder around one of my bigger local Dealers today, actually the closest BMW i-Agent... I was checking out the i3 ... and it was my first opportunity to see some of the new models up close and personal, as well as being in the context of other models in the range, and I have to say I was impressed. Come the summer I hope to be deciding on a new car, and the two lead candidates are an i3 REx and (more likely) a 320dGT - I've had all sorts of BMW's over the years, and I'm still amazed (even when sitting in the cabin of the i3) that there is still an unmistakable 'BMW feel' to them, and I doubt the 2-er AT will be any different.

... each to their own though, I can respect your wants and needs as much as my own.


(I was really impressed with the i3 by the way)
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      03-09-2014, 11:01 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matski View Post
I doubt BMW is under the impression any of us owe them our business, and if a Macan ticks more boxes for you, and the price of ticking those boxes isn't an issue for you, then of course you will go down that route

... each to their own though, I can respect your wants and needs as much as my own.
of course BMW wants to impress everyone of us! how else they will sell cars and make money

About the cars, I had been interested in either 335, 435GC, or X4. When these cars were released none impressed me. Their price range is about 45K to start. You add a couple of options and that goes to 50K. At 50K I can get Macan, and after "checking" a couple of boxes for Macan options, I am at 54-55K. So, does 10% more $$$ for a better car makes sense? To me it does.
Btw, if I cant afford the Porsche, I'd rather go for a used e9x than F3x car despite their better fuel efficiency and larger size.
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