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      01-15-2014, 07:30 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantucket View Post
Thanks again Scott for the great info.
+1. just need to post it a lot more places so that some of the 6 cylinder crowd can " recognize"...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramos View Post
Yes Scott, we get it .. M2 and X1M related in key areas means a shared four cylinder engine.



To the 87% of us who don't want a 4 cylinder M2, no point waiting any longer, put your orders in for the M235, it's the next best thing to a real inline 6 M2 that we won't get.
I've been saying this for 6-8 months. You " 87% " ( or is it " 47 %" ?) are apparently just 6 cylinder fans and not fans of BMW motor design or apparently fans of the M division in general.

Just realize that there are many many many E30 M3 enthusiasts that reject the 1M as any successor to the ORIGINAL M3. That car... the E30 M3 ... . a 2 door, short wheelbase, lightweiight M car designed for racing, with a 4 cylinder motor that sounds incredible... ( something which bimwads with inline-6-on-the-brain feel is somehow impossible... ) has yet to have a true successor.. and now.... it's time. Of course... DIE HARD fans of the E30 M3 will still reject it..... " it's heavier... it wasnt designed for racing... it 's got a TURBO motor and ELECTRIC STEERING for chrisssake" but that's because they are frozen in the past..... along with a bunch of 6 cylinder fans...

And maybe it's a good thing the M4 came along because certainly it's size and dimensions are NOTHING near what the E30 M3 was... But that's ok.. there is plenty of time for you to learn....
4c engines from that era was different. Cars were lighter and 17" wheels were consider huge. It only needed AC and a cassette radio. Now cars are 3300+ lbs and 19" wheels is a must for most. A 4c will not satisfy anyone now a days. Everything gets bigger...from sandwiches to cars

But i see 4c are making a come back, it'll get better in few more years
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      01-15-2014, 07:31 PM   #46
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Very excited for the M235i!

At first, I was afraid that it would just be an M Sport packaged 2 series with the PPK engine add-on and just have the M badge slapped on there for good measure.

Doesn't seem like the case here. M tuned software calibrations, upgraded cooling system, suspension, braking, faster lap times than a 1M, available LSD option. It's going to be one hell of a car in this segment.

IMO, this will blow the S3 away. I think the only competition here is the CLA45 AMG.

Well done BMW! Can't wait to get mine!
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      01-15-2014, 07:39 PM   #47
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Ring times could be explained in many ways.

Improved suspension geometry and tuning (less understeer, improved camber curves = more grip)
Adaptive suspension (more body control, less pitch/roll = more grip, improved driver confidence)
Improved power delivery (less heatsoak)
Tires (Pilot SuperSports are a big step up from most anything that came before them)
Improved behavior at the limit (allows the driver maximize performance)

There's more to a car than power and weight.
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      01-15-2014, 07:40 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ska325xi View Post
4c engines from that era was different. Cars were lighter and 17" wheels were consider huge. It only needed AC and a cassette radio. Now cars are 3300+ lbs and 19" wheels is a must for most. A 4c will not satisfy anyone now a days. Everything gets bigger...from sandwiches to cars

But i see 4c are making a come back, it'll get better in few more years
I would have to respectfully disagree.

Look at the CLA45 AMG. I think with turbo technology anything is possible with some ingenuity.

Edit: Just saw your last sentence. I will agree with that.
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      01-15-2014, 07:47 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinny84
Quote:
Originally Posted by ska325xi View Post
4c engines from that era was different. Cars were lighter and 17" wheels were consider huge. It only needed AC and a cassette radio. Now cars are 3300+ lbs and 19" wheels is a must for most. A 4c will not satisfy anyone now a days. Everything gets bigger...from sandwiches to cars

But i see 4c are making a come back, it'll get better in few more years
I would have to respectfully disagree.

Look at the CLA45 AMG. I think with turbo technology anything is possible with some ingenuity.
That was what i was trying to pt out...alot ppl are not accepting a 4c car thats price over $40k

4c engines are making a come back, now how reliable that amg engine will be...no one knows
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      01-15-2014, 07:48 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
The newer car designs (F2x/F3x) are so much stiffer than the models they replace. A stiffer(structure) car will handle better. Its just that simple. Better handling equals faster lap times.


Dack
To add on to what Dackelone said with regards to why the M235i has better laptimes, the 1M isn't setup all that great for getting best times on a track. The car has understeer at corner entry and oversteer at corner exit. These characteristics doesn't make for an easy car to drive and can cause a driver to be more cautious (even a pro driver).

The 1M suspension is setup for more of a fun in a loosey-goosey manner. Also, the BMW M CEO mentioned that the 2-series has a longer wheelbase, something that helps with mid-corner and long sweeper stability.
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      01-15-2014, 07:58 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rs_philly View Post
M235 is heavier.

Both the 135 and M235 configurations are up on BMW USA. You can easily check the curb weights:

M235: 3505 lbs (both Auto and Manual)
135is: 3373 lbs (Manual), 3439 lbs (Auto)

So the Auto is 65lbs heavier, the manual is 132 lbs heavier.
Yes, but I don't buy it. I don't think the manual is the same weight as the automatic.. that has never been the case. The BMW website is all sort of bonkers. It talks about HUD, top speed 130 mph, and lots of other bull
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      01-15-2014, 08:08 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone
Quote:
Originally Posted by 135iMsportCoupe View Post
I don't get it...the 1M had more HP, more torque, and the adjustable rear suspension from the M3. It had the "M" button for throttle response. It was lighter than a 135i. How does the M235i beat it around the Ring? Was it driven by the Stig?
The newer car designs (F2x/F3x) are so much stiffer than the models they replace. A stiffer(structure) car will handle better. Its just that simple. Better handling equals faster lap times.


Dack
Makes sense. Thanks.
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      01-15-2014, 08:17 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rs_philly View Post
M235 is heavier.

Both the 135 and M235 configurations are up on BMW USA. You can easily check the curb weights:

M235: 3505 lbs (both Auto and Manual)
135is: 3373 lbs (Manual), 3439 lbs (Auto)

So the Auto is 65lbs heavier, the manual is 132 lbs heavier.

According to international BMW site both M235i and 135i weight the same:

http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicle...ata/index.html

choose "BMW 2 Series Coupe M235i"

Unladen weight EU in kg: 1,530 kg


http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicle...ata/index.html

choose " BMW 1 Series Coupe 135i"

Unladen weight EU in kg: 1,530 kg


One caveat (there may be more I am not aware of): Compared to above EU spec cars USA cars have sunroof and electric seats as extra equipment which explains at least some of the weight increase.
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      01-15-2014, 08:26 PM   #54
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I can envision the M235i being a top seller. It really does check all the boxes for non M customers and the mods will really be fun on this one. Will be interesting to see how this ends up in sales against 328/335i.
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      01-15-2014, 09:21 PM   #55
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I don't like xdrive at all! My 2013 535 has xdrive and I hate it. Occasionally, it is jerky no matter what mode I am in.

Second, it sucks down gas! I get about 20-22.5 with mixed driving and I am easy on the pedal. 99% time in comfort or Ecopro modes. I really wish dealers in the north east get more RWD cars.
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      01-15-2014, 09:40 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ska325xi
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinny84
Quote:
Originally Posted by ska325xi View Post
4c engines from that era was different. Cars were lighter and 17" wheels were consider huge. It only needed AC and a cassette radio. Now cars are 3300+ lbs and 19" wheels is a must for most. A 4c will not satisfy anyone now a days. Everything gets bigger...from sandwiches to cars

But i see 4c are making a come back, it'll get better in few more years
I would have to respectfully disagree.

Look at the CLA45 AMG. I think with turbo technology anything is possible with some ingenuity.
That was what i was trying to pt out...alot ppl are not accepting a 4c car thats price over $40k

4c engines are making a come back, now how reliable that amg engine will be...no one knows
New Alfa Romeo begs to differ...
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      01-15-2014, 09:46 PM   #57
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Thanks for asking our questions Jason. Some really good information confirmed there.

Really looking forward to a M2. I'd like to wait 12 months but if it needs to be 24 - I'm patient enough to trust BMW to truly excite me with something special.
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      01-15-2014, 09:53 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iandakila View Post
M2 when????????????
Good question. I was talking to a friend of mine today about the M235 and he is very tight with the person in the know at BMW M and he said not too expect one. He said the M235 is THAT good and BMW doesn't see the need for an M2, hence all the comments about how it "outperforms the 1M". That certainly could change...and I hope he's wrong, but he's been pretty spot on with most info he's given me.

That said, this M235 looks pretty awesome and could see dumping the E90, doing Euro Delivery, and driving around in the M235 with a big
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      01-15-2014, 10:20 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Greenkirby21 View Post
Yes, but I don't buy it. I don't think the manual is the same weight as the automatic.. that has never been the case. The BMW website is all sort of bonkers. It talks about HUD, top speed 130 mph, and lots of other bull
+1 on the weight - hasn't the message consistently been that the E82 135 and M235 would be approximately the same weight ?
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      01-15-2014, 10:22 PM   #60
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A lot of good info in the interview overall - glad the LSD seems to be a big priority at the launch - hoping the same is the case for the 19' wheel option as well.

And that they don't cost 4k.
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      01-15-2014, 10:41 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aajami View Post
Interesting note about the M235i being quicker around certain tracks than the 1M. While I still think that BMW will deliver an M2 at some point, this adds more fodder for the argument against one coming out.
Q: Should we expect an gran coupe or M2 model?
A: Everything is possible. We will not let our folks down. We will have something that is really exciting.

This gives me hope that they will build the M2.
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      01-15-2014, 10:49 PM   #62
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Great news for a great car,

Im not that surprise, many M135i have more power output that the claimed 320HP
Mine run around 330-340 stock

maybe they just dont want to upset the 1M owners that soon
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      01-16-2014, 12:36 AM   #63
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.001 sec is technically "faster"...how much faster and around where? as others have said not sure how this is possible on paper but would like the claims substantiated.
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      01-16-2014, 12:48 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
The time frame between M4 Coupe and M2 Coupe will be around two years to on sale date so there is plenty of opportunity and of course time to establish the M4 as the mid-level Coupe. And creating space for the M2.

At BMW time is important in establishing new models or determining the next course of action for further progression.
It is best to take this time and do it right rather than rush it and get it so wrong.

There is a 2er Gran Coupe due which is expected to be shown as a Concept car first but it is effectively a four door 2er but with a slight wheelbase stretch but you still get that rounded dynamic coupe roof.

Anyway it adds for some really exciting compact and sub-compact models coming from BMW. For as well as the M2 there will be a JCW MINI which will see the JCW brand adopt a more BMW M. Philosophy in performance , character and exclusivity.

And then we are possibly looking at an X1 M which will be in many ways closely related to the M2 in key significant areas.
The M2 will likely come in the same lifecycle as the X4 to the F25 then, as a LCI?
Next generation M2 will outsell the M3/4 imo, it has such a nice future Ahead of itself imo.
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      01-16-2014, 12:49 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ska325xi View Post
That was what i was trying to pt out...alot ppl are not accepting a 4c car thats price over $40k

4c engines are making a come back, now how reliable that amg engine will be...no one knows
Oh well, I'm driving the A45 AMG thing right now.

The car is very very fast, acceleration effortless and definitely superior to my JB Stage1 N55 135i. There is no indication of the engine working too hard either. Would I want this engine in my E82 or in future M2? I sincerely don't know. The bigger I6 engine still has the tactile charm and gives impression of deeper power reserves. To really judge the A45 engine I would love to try a manual trans, but it just isn't available on Mercs.

One thing is for sure: if M2 gets I4 it better be coarse and angry and vulgar like AMG's. The prerecorded synthetic sound of recent BMWs is just a slap in a face, really. You just can't stop thinking that a whole car is somehow synthetic too.
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      01-16-2014, 02:13 AM   #66
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