[Liquidpaper]

Hello all,

For my previous reviews, please see below:

http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1040545

http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1057603

http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1081326

Review:

Okay, so this past weekend I did the AROSC (Alfa Club) Time Trial School at the Streets of Willow.

Since the last time I took the car out (see review no. 3), I had quite a few things done. My list of modifications is as follows:

Suspension: Ground Control Camber Plates -- 2.25 F, 1.65 R, 1/16 toe in;

Wheels/Tires: APEX ARC-8 18x8.5 ET 38 in Hyper Black x 4 with Dunlop Direzza II 255/35/18 x 4;

Brakes: Porterfield R4-S pads, Challenge Braided SS Lines, ATE 200 Brake Fluid;

Gauges: P3 Vent Gauge; and,

For fun/stupid: MP Exhaust, Stainless pedals, MP Black Kidneys.


So if you will remember from last time (and a few times before), I was having some serious issues chewing up my front tires. The camber plates resolved that issue -- the tires wear just fine (and very evenly, front and rear).

Also, going to a square (and wider) setup along with a proper track alignment very much changed the character of the car. It's dead neutral now, and it will over-steer if you screw up. Took a little getting used to Saturday morning. However, once I figured it out, it is simply amazing. It's ridiculously agile now and sticks like glue. Very, very impressive.

The brake upgrades were helpful as well. As you may or may not know, the Streets of Willow is a very tire/brake intensive track. I was out (in two instances) for an hour at a time (very tiring), and I did not experience any brake fade whatsoever. I was quite impressed. For those of you doubting whether the R4-S pads are better than stock, they are. They dust a lot (same as stock) and they need just a little heat to work well, but they hold up extremely well under track use. Also, they do not squeal on the street. Great product.

Look, I've never driven a "true" M car, but I think these pretty reasonable modifications made this a track weapon. There was a guy with an E92 M3 that I was whipping the crap out of, and I was keeping up with a friend of mine in a 2015 C7 ZO6 (that car is amazing) when horsepower was not involved. I don't care what anyone says -- the M235i is definitely track capable and actually very track competent.

I got some good video this weekend (a good deal of my driving in the rain - so much fun). I'll post later when I edit it. For now, a nice afterglow picture.

Any questions, comments, criticisms, please leave in the thread.

EDIT:

I edited down three videos from all the footage I took this weekend. The first is some track action during the rain (and some sweet accidental bad drifting brah). The second is me and a C7 Z06 playing leap-frog (passing drills) on track. The third is a bonus drive of the entire course backwards. Tons of fun to drive. Enjoy.

Oh, also, the Z06 is obscene, and gets more obscene when you run next to one and hear that ungodly roar. I swear Chevrolet made the tailpipes into trumpets for a reason -- it sounds like the car is ushering in the apocalypse every time you so much as brush the throttle.

[gaijin]

Great to hear that you getting your ride sorted out and starting to show off what the M235i are capable of track side. I enjoyed the previous video and missives. Please keep them coming!

[pikcachu]

nice

[dan99]

Wow, thanks for sharing

[Mark's M]

Great review and appreciate the equipment list!!

[Sp1ke]

Again, love ur set up. If I can I'd go for the
same color combo with either the hyper black
or satin black ARC-8's. Not sure on staggered
or square set up tho. Enjoy ur ride man, its dope.

[m3peat]

Awesome!! keep at it!! have you been logging times to see how much you're dropping each time out with the new mods?

[Liquidpaper]

Originally Posted by m3peat

Awesome!! keep at it!! have you been logging times to see how much you're dropping each time out with the new mods?

Unfortunately, no, as a good chunk of the track time I've had is at "schools" which aren't timing you, but just want you to focus on technique. From here on out, whenever there is a responder available, I'm going to be renting it for times. I should probably invest in Harry's Laptimer Pro as well.

[m3peat]

Originally Posted by Liquidpaper

Unfortunately, no, as a good chunk of the track time I've had is at "schools" which aren't timing you, but just want you to focus on technique. From here on out, whenever there is a responder available, I'm going to be renting it for times. I should probably invest in Harry's Laptimer Pro as well.

Eh, I never went that far as to using timing equipment. I just used my video's for reference and/or friends timing me. Since we aren't 'racing', we don't need to be that technical. All just to get an idea if I'm moving forward. Obviously there's more to it than just the equipment you've added, namely your familiarity with the course and building confidence each lap but it still gives you an idea of what the equipment is doing.

I've heard Harry's Lap timer is great and I'm sure there are others nearly as or better these days but I haven't shopped around lately.

[Alpine F31]

Thanks for posting this! I have the exact Apex wheels (even the color) that you have, 18X8.5 +38 that I was using on my 328i. Now I know they will work on my M235i.

Great info! Now all I need is for my car to get here! It's still on a boat.

[IDBMW]

Thanks for posting your experience and knowledge. And nice one off car you are turning it into.

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by Liquidpaper

Unfortunately, no, as a good chunk of the track time I've had is at "schools" which aren't timing you, but just want you to focus on technique. From here on out, whenever there is a responder available, I'm going to be renting it for times. I should probably invest in Harry's Laptimer Pro as well.

Don't you have the tech package?
The M Laptimer is pretty good and will keep track of all your times and you can see telemetry of throttle, brake, g force etc....

[Liquidpaper]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

Don't you have the tech package?
The M Laptimer is pretty good and will keep track of all your times and you can see telemetry of throttle, brake, g force etc....

I have an android phone.

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by Liquidpaper

I have an android phone.

Don't worry, flip phones don't have Laptimer either

BTW do you see the outside wheel getting much hotter than the inside from the Idrive psi and temp gauge?

[Liquidpaper]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

Don't worry, flip phones don't have Laptimer either

BTW do you see the outside wheel getting much hotter than the inside from the Idrive psi and temp gauge?

Do you mean the outside surface of the tire versus the inside, or the outside tire versus the inside?

I did start to use the iDrive TPMS sensors on track simply to let me know when my tires are warming up (cold tires = oversteer spin-out fun now). Before I got my suspension done the outside tire was much hotter than the inside. Now, there is a difference, but it is much lower (10-15 degrees, max).

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by Liquidpaper

Do you mean the outside surface of the tire versus the inside, or the outside tire versus the inside?

I did start to use the iDrive TPMS sensors on track simply to let me know when my tires are warming up (cold tires = oversteer spin-out fun now). Before I got my suspension done the outside tire was much hotter than the inside. Now, there is a difference, but it is much lower (10-15 degrees, max).

ya I meant the outside tire versus the inside tire...

Nice.... wonder if they ever figure out if the Lower control arm from the M3 fits the m235....

I have the feeling the outside should get cooked without camber

[Liquidpaper]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

ya I meant the outside tire versus the inside tire...

Nice.... wonder if they ever figure out if the Lower control arm from the M3 fits the m235....

I have the feeling the outside should get cooked without camber

You could go that route, however, if you're simply looking for camber, you're better off with a camber plate than an M3 lower control arm. That being said, I wouldn't be opposed to an M3 lower control arm. Looks nice and beefy (simply for durability purposes).

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by Liquidpaper

You could go that route, however, if you're simply looking for camber, you're better off with a camber plate than an M3 lower control arm. That being said, I wouldn't be opposed to an M3 lower control arm. Looks nice and beefy (simply for durability purposes).

ya, also problem with LCA is if it will clear a 17 inch wheel...

Also the LCA seems like a more stealth option than the camber plates in case dealer gets picky

[Liquidpaper]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

Also the LCA seems like a more stealth option than the camber plates in case dealer gets picky

Oh I came to terms with that particular issue a while ago. However, I think I'm going to wait to do anything to the engine/drivetrain (save for the MP LSD) until after the warranty is up.

Yeah, it'd be cool for the car to push another 30-40 whp/wtq or something, but that doesn't make me a better driver (or contribute to the handling characteristics of the car), that just makes the car better in a straight line, really. I got bored of going fast in a straight line after my first track day.

[wjones14]

Originally Posted by Liquidpaper

So if you will remember from last time (and a few times before), I was having some serious issues chewing up my front tires. The camber plates resolved that issue -- the tires wear just fine (and very evenly, front and rear).

Great review of your track day! So this was like your 5th track day overall?

I don't even have an M235i yet, but do have 7 HPDE track days under my belt with the Mustang. Can't wait to try the 2er out - debating whether its first track should be at Watkins Glen, Lime Rock, or the new Palmer Motorsports track in MA. Anyway, there don't seem to be a lot of track day reports as detailed as yours on these forums, so I appreciate that you take the time to share your thoughts and experience with us.

My question is about the extreme wear you're reporting on the front tires. I read your first track day review and you didn't mention any unusual wear at all with the stock Michelin PSS staggered tire setup. In fact, you thought you would get an additional 10-15k miles out of them afterwards. So what changed subsequently? Was it different tracks? Was it different weather? Did you just drive a lot harder and abuse them?

I'm not really one to modify my cars much. The only mods I did to the Mustang in 10 years were:

-- Hurst Shifter
-- Pioneer speakers
-- 255/50-17 tires to replace the stock 235/55-17
-- Hawk HPS brake pads
-- ATE Super Blue brake fluid

Aside from cosmetic mods (front splitter, SS pedals, MP exhaust, MP diffuser, rocker panel decals), and probably ATE brake fluid, I plan on leaving the M235i stock.

For one track day per year, is it necessary or worthwhile to fool around with the camber and toe-in settings?

[wjones14]

Originally Posted by Liquidpaper

I got bored of going fast in a straight line after my first track day.

Really? I never even come close to getting tired of that.

Seriously, it's like a feeling of freedom for me. All that pent-up frustration of driving like a responsible citizen on the public roads all year, is suddenly gone when I can go WOT, and especially at speeds in the triple digits.

Don't get me wrong - I love the feeling of the car rotating with throttle input coming out of a turn as well. Nailing a turn is definitely rewarding. But I also look forward to the sections of the track that are WOT. It's a time to relax and take a deep breath, take a look at the gauges, and just enjoy the thrill of speed. It's like I'm purging something unwanted out of my system.

[Liquidpaper]

Originally Posted by wjones14

Great review of your track day! So this was like your 5th track day overall?

I don't even have an M235i yet, but do have 7 HPDE track days under my belt with the Mustang. Can't wait to try the 2er out - debating whether its first track should be at Watkins Glen, Lime Rock, or the new Palmer Motorsports track in MA. Anyway, there don't seem to be a lot of track day reports as detailed as yours on these forums, so I appreciate that you take the time to share your thoughts and experience with us.

My question is about the extreme wear you're reporting on the front tires. I read your first track day review and you didn't mention any unusual wear at all with the stock Michelin PSS staggered tire setup. In fact, you thought you would get an additional 10-15k miles out of them afterwards. So what changed subsequently? Was it different tracks? Was it different weather? Did you just drive a lot harder and abuse them?

I'm not really one to modify my cars much. The only mods I did to the Mustang in 10 years were:

-- Hurst Shifter
-- Pioneer speakers
-- 255/50-17 tires to replace the stock 235/55-17
-- Hawk HPS brake pads
-- ATE Super Blue brake fluid

Aside from cosmetic mods (front splitter, SS pedals, MP exhaust, MP diffuser, rocker panel decals), and probably ATE brake fluid, I plan on leaving the M235i stock.

For one track day per year, is it necessary or worthwhile to fool around with the camber and toe-in settings?

This is actually my 10th day overall, and 9th in the M235i. I think I probably am in the running for the most track days in this car in the US outside of professionals (and maybe a few people on this forum).

So, here is the thing. When I first started this, I was very much a beginner. As I got faster, the suspension setup became inadequate -- I was out-driving the front suspension. That became shockingly apparent when I started to chunk/chord brand new Direzza II's after two days at Willow Springs last month. The choice to get camber plates was as much a cost-savings decision as it was a performance upgrade. Tires are not cheap.

If you aren't going crazy like me and going at every opportunity, you really don't have to worry about doing the crap I'm doing. The car is just fine with some ATE 200 (or other high performance) fluid in to help with the brake fade if you are doing a once a year thing. The things I've posted are for those who truly have lost their minds.

Originally Posted by wjones14

Really? I never even come close to getting tired of that.

Seriously, it's like a feeling of freedom for me. All that pent-up frustration of driving like a responsible citizen on the public roads all year, is suddenly gone when I can go WOT, and especially at speeds in the triple digits.

Don't get me wrong - I love the feeling of the car rotating with throttle input coming out of a turn as well. Nailing a turn is definitely rewarding. But I also look forward to the sections of the track that are WOT. It's a time to relax and take a deep breath, take a look at the gauges, and just enjoy the thrill of speed. It's like I'm purging something unwanted out of my system.

Look, I love WOTing the car on long straights (I had the car between 135 and 140 on the front straight at Willow Springs in January which was pretty cool) as much as the next guy, but I really love the lateral g stuff, getting the car to dance around the corner. That and in SoCal, you're normally sharing the track with some very high horsepower cars (C7 Z06 anyone?). The playing field is somewhat evened out when you move from a straight and into the corners.