[Portadown95]

I was wondering if anyone could comment on their experience owning a 2 series (or other BMW) with non-power seats. I have a golf with non-power seats and they are incredibly easy to adjust. I saw one video on youtube of a car salesman trying to adjust the manual seats on a 2 series and it looked kind of complex.

[2msport]

It's so easy a monkey could do it. I absolutely love them. Great adjustment options. Easy and smooth operation. They remember their position when you tilt them forward to get in the back seat. (big pet peeve when a seat doesn't do that) and as a bonus, because there is no motor you can sit about 2 inches lower than the powered version on the lowest setting. Also you save... 40lbs? for the lighter chairs. Lighter car = more fun.

Oh and if you get the msport seats you still get a powered lumbar function. You can make it really tight.

[bluemeanie]

There is a bit of a learning curve with the manual seat adjustments in my 228i. There are five different adjustments one can make. Just finding all the knobs and levers takes some doing. But once you get everything figured out its no big deal.

[huma]

Took me a good minute to figure it out. Btw, is there an easier way to lower the seat after you raise it? I had to sit and push down on the seat with my whole body.

Originally Posted by 2msport

because there is no motor you can sit about 2 inches lower than the powered version on the lowest setting.

I felt like I was sitting on the floor.

[Kiwi]

Why not just demo a 2 series then you can find out yourself.

[nachob]

Originally Posted by huma

Took me a good minute to figure it out. Btw, is there an easier way to lower the seat after you raise it? I had to sit and push down on the seat with my whole body.


I felt like I was sitting on the floor.

Yes. I loved them in the 1M and seem basically the same....yes you can go lower in the manual seats than power seats too. Also lighter and if you put people in the back, faster to slide forward and back then pushing the button. You have just have to remember to slide them back with the seat back tilted forward. The first time I did it, I pulled on the seat back and it locks in forward position. Once you get used to sliding it from the base, it's fast.. The only issue is no memory but then again, I didn't let many drive my car.

Ironically, one of my gripes here in US, you can't get manual seats in M235!

[2msport]

Originally Posted by huma

Took me a good minute to figure it out. Btw, is there an easier way to lower the seat after you raise it? I had to sit and push down on the seat with my whole body.


I felt like I was sitting on the floor.

I usually just plant my feet forward under/near the pedals and push my back into the seat. That usually starts the downward motion.

As far sitting on the floor, depends how tall you are. I'm a 6' 1. Feels perfect on the lowest setting.

[Portadown95]

Originally Posted by Kiwi

Why not just demo a 2 series then you can find out yourself.

All the 228s and 235s in this area have had the power seats. They dont sit on the lot long

[nachob]

Originally Posted by Portadown95

All the 228s and 235s in this area have had the power seats. They dont sit on the lot long

I have two kids and found them faster for getting in and out regularly. The motorized ones take too long for daily use. IMHO.

[fkacct]

Regretting the power seats / premium package. I really think the 2" inches would make the ride feel a lot more sporty / cooler.....and yes power seats are a bit slow to roll forward when you have kids sitting in the back...only real advantage to power seats seems to be the memory.....everything else is nonsense....

[HarmOG]

I would agree that there is a bit of a learning curve. It seems like everyone who gets in the passenger seat has a hard time at first. Now, when people get in, I just tell them which lever to pull to adjust what they want. As far as the drivers seat goes, once I got it dialed in, it never moves so it doesn't really matter that much.

[kz1000]

No problems at all.

[quenotte]

Originally Posted by 2msport

because there is no motor you can sit about 2 inches lower than the powered version on the lowest setting. Also you save... 40lbs? for the lighter chairs. Lighter car = more fun.

How did you measure those 2 inches?

To my mind, power and non power seats are articulated in the exact same way.

Motors take some place but manual mechanism also.

You can note on the ETK that electrical motors are placed not to limit mechanism range.

Concerning the weight, on the ETK:
- Manual sport-seat base: 11.50kg
- Electrical sport-seat base: 13.26kg
=> Electrical seat weights 1.76kg more compared to manual one...
As with the previous 2 inches, I don't know where you found 40lbs more...
1.76kg equals to 3.88lbs...

[nachob]

Originally Posted by quenotte

How did you measure those 2 inches?

To my mind, power and non power seats are articulated in the exact same way.

Motors take some place but manual mechanism also.

You can note on the ETK that electrical motors are placed not to limit mechanism range.

Concerning the weight, on the ETK:
- Manual sport-seat base: 11.50kg
- Electrical sport-seat base: 13.26kg
=> Electrical seat weights 1.76kg more compared to manual one...
As with the previous 2 inches, I don't know where you found 40lbs more...
1.76kg equals to 3.88lbs...

Can anyone measure them please? In the 1 series the difference was just under 1 1/2" difference. No, the motors are not placed to limit range, they're there to move the seat up and down but they take room under the seat so the seat cannot go down as low. We appreciate your weights on these, they seem a about right but lets take it to the next step and get the measurement! I'm guessing it will be about 1 inch difference but I prefer accuracy. I will see if I can measure over the weekend but I still prefer to save 7 lbs on seats because the power seats are often bundled with premium package which also adds motorized mirrors, more weight.. parking sensors, more weight, active suspension, more weight...etc etc

Finally, the biggest difference in terms of functionality for me was that with small kids, they move quicker to let people in and out daily and in the 1 series, you got ~1 1/2 inch extra which felt better sitting lower as well as room for your helmet.


Lets get the measurement gentlemen!

[quenotte]

It really depends where motors are installed. For example backrest motor is on the exterior side of seat mechanism.

I've a M235i with Power seats.

I think that my local BMW dealer has a 218d with manual sport seats.

I should visit them next week so I will try to measure both of them.

Position will be height to minimal and no tilt.

[2msport]

Originally Posted by quenotte

How did you measure those 2 inches?

To my mind, power and non power seats are articulated in the exact same way.

Motors take some place but manual mechanism also.

You can note on the ETK that electrical motors are placed not to limit mechanism range.

Concerning the weight, on the ETK:
- Manual sport-seat base: 11.50kg
- Electrical sport-seat base: 13.26kg
=> Electrical seat weights 1.76kg more compared to manual one...
As with the previous 2 inches, I don't know where you found 40lbs more...
1.76kg equals to 3.88lbs...

What's ETK? What's included in the "seat base"? Does that include the rest of the reinforced seat? Does that include the motor? Seat track? The mechanisms inside the seat for tilting? Wiring and controllers? Extra protection if the seat motor burns up? I don't have these answers. Maybe you can shed some more detailed light on the matter. Perhaps 40lbs was assuming a little much. But I truly have a very hard time believing the motor alone is not more than 4lbs. Motors are never light. Especially ones that have to move 300lbs. But I could be wrong. And I would impressed if they managed a feat like that.

As far as the height difference goes, I've read numerous posts about people perceiving a difference in comparison. As well as a few stating there is a 1-2 inch difference from measuring. So yes I was going off of someone else's word. You got me. But making that assumption is not far fetched. It's normal for a motorized seat to not reach as low. Usually limited by the side of the motor. Perhaps in recent years they've gotten the motors smaller. But it has not always been that way.

[338FREAK]

Originally Posted by quenotte

How did you measure those 2 inches?

To my mind, power and non power seats are articulated in the exact same way.

Motors take some place but manual mechanism also.

You can note on the ETK that electrical motors are placed not to limit mechanism range.

Concerning the weight, on the ETK:
- Manual sport-seat base: 11.50kg
- Electrical sport-seat base: 13.26kg
=> Electrical seat weights 1.76kg more compared to manual one...
As with the previous 2 inches, I don't know where you found 40lbs more...
1.76kg equals to 3.88lbs...

I will chime in on this subject to help my Tall brethren. I am 6'-6" and called BMW & have a letter from the self proclaimed "Genius" to discuss lowest seat & options so I can enjoy this beautiful car. They assured me that the power seats and Manual seats are the same height. The ONLY option that limits headroom is the Sunroof. If they lied to me I will be getting my $995 dollars back one way or another.... Hope this helps!

[2msport]

Originally Posted by 338FREAK

I will chime in on this subject to help my Tall brethren. I am 6'-6" and called BMW & have a letter from the self proclaimed "Genius" to discuss lowest seat & options so I can enjoy this beautiful car. They assured me that the power seats and Manual seats are the same height. The ONLY option that limits headroom is the Sunroof. If they lied to me I will be getting my $995 dollars back one way or another.... Hope this helps!

good to know!

[quenotte]

Originally Posted by 2msport

What's ETK? What's included in the "seat base"? Does that include the rest of the reinforced seat? Does that include the motor? Seat track? The mechanisms inside the seat for tilting? Wiring and controllers? Extra protection if the seat motor burns up? I don't have these answers. Maybe you can shed some more detailed light on the matter. Perhaps 40lbs was assuming a little much. But I truly have a very hard time believing the motor alone is not more than 4lbs. Motors are never light. Especially ones that have to move 300lbs. But I could be wrong. And I would impressed if they managed a feat like that.

As far as the height difference goes, I've read numerous posts about people perceiving a difference in comparison. As well as a few stating there is a 1-2 inch difference from measuring. So yes I was going off of someone else's word. You got me. But making that assumption is not far fetched. It's normal for a motorized seat to not reach as low. Usually limited by the side of the motor. Perhaps in recent years they've gotten the motors smaller. But it has not always been that way.

ETK? Elektronischer Teilekatalog => BMW electronic parts catalog/system.

Seat base is the bottom part of the seat (Part 1 below). It includes motors for electrical seats, levers for manual ones, seat racks, tilt,... In fact the heaviest parts that can be easily compared...

Manual seat base:


Electrical seat base:


Motor weights:
- Height: 320g
- Tilt: 370g
- Backrest: 320g
- Longitudinal: 360g
The 4 motors => 1.370kg

So perfectly sensible with weight difference between manual and electrical seat base.

You already have power wires and fuses for sport seats backrest width adjustment pump in manual sport seats.

Manual seat mechanism, especially levers may be heavier/more robust compared to what a motor driven needs because an individual will have more force than the motor and you need to secure the lever in every direction.

On top of that, motors can be placed inside the seat frame so that they don't limit its range.

So please do not rely on non verified things.

Lots of people are saying nonsense.

As an example, lots of people are saying that F22/F30 M Sport steering wheel is larger compared to what BMW proposed in the past.

Long time ago, BMW proposed 365mm for 3 series and 375mm 5 series.

And people feel that the new M steering wheel is larger to previous ones...

So I took some measurements on my cars:

- E46 M Sport steeing wheel (M3 one): 375mm external diameter
- F22 M Sport steeing wheel (M235i): 370mm external diameter

Conclusion: New one is smaller and nearly as small as E30 one...

So please rely only on facts and wait for the measures in same conditions

[2msport]

Originally Posted by quenotte

ETK? Elektronischer Teilekatalog => BMW electronic parts catalog/system.

Seat base is the bottom part of the seat (Part 1 below). It includes motors for electrical seats, levers for manual ones, seat racks, tilt,... In fact the heaviest parts that can be easily compared...

Manual seat base:


Electrical seat base:


Motor weights:
- Height: 320g
- Tilt: 370g
- Backrest: 320g
- Longitudinal: 360g
The 4 motors => 1.370kg

So perfectly sensible with weight difference between manual and electrical seat base.

You already have power wires and fuses for sport seats backrest width adjustment pump in manual sport seats.

Manual seat mechanism, especially levers may be heavier/more robust compared to what a motor driven needs because an individual will have more force than the motor and you need to secure the lever in every direction.

On top of that, motors can be placed inside the seat frame so that they don't limit its range.

So please do not rely on non verified things.

Lots of people are saying nonsense.

As an example, lots of people are saying that F22/F30 M Sport steering wheel is larger compared to what BMW proposed in the past.

Long time ago, BMW proposed 365mm for 3 series and 375mm 5 series.

And people feel that the new M steering wheel is larger to previous ones...

So I took some measurements on my cars:

- E46 M Sport steeing wheel (M3 one): 375mm external diameter
- F22 M Sport steeing wheel (M235i): 370mm external diameter

Conclusion: New one is smaller and nearly as small as E30 one...

So please rely only on facts and wait for the measures in same conditions

Where you were you 10 months ago?? Good info man. I'll still take the 7.5lbs less to shift around in my 28

[nachob]

Originally Posted by 338FREAK

I will chime in on this subject to help my Tall brethren. I am 6'-6" and called BMW & have a letter from the self proclaimed "Genius" to discuss lowest seat & options so I can enjoy this beautiful car. They assured me that the power seats and Manual seats are the same height. The ONLY option that limits headroom is the Sunroof. If they lied to me I will be getting my $995 dollars back one way or another.... Hope this helps!

I've spoken to the geniuses and not impressed. I recently asked them about the new M3 twin turbo 0w-40 oil as a possible replacement for N54 5w-30. He says he spoke to head service advisor that 5w-30 is recommended for N54 only. I asked why, they both have exact same rating, both twin turbo. He says. Service advisor knows his stuff. Waste of time. Anyway we just need to measure before bashing anyone!

Kudos to the gentleman that will measure!!!

[bimmerfile]

Interesting, I'm 6' 5" and have had manual seats in the Z4, 128i Cabrio and current X1 and have always had the seats on the lowest setting. (For the OP - they're a breeze to operate).
However, I'm getting the power seats on my soon-to-be-delivered 228i Cabrio - only because they came with the premium pkge which has stuff I really want (heated steering wheel, back-up camera, etc).
I sat in the M235i cabrio they had at the Toronto Auto show last week and I had the power driver seat in its lowest position and it felt not much diff height wise to the manual seats in my 1er - but that was with the top down.
Hopefully some "Genius" (BMW or otherwise) can shed light on the actual height difference (if any) between manual and power seats.