[Canaletto]

Originally Posted by Levi

M2 doesn't stand a chance against the lighter Flat4 Turbo powered Cayman that is coming.

Do you have any links to the specs on the new Porsche? Because I haven't seen them yet.

[PackPride85]

53k USD starting was my magic number.

[jcardenasmzl]

I'm guessing also 52-54 keep in mind that the m3 (yes its a sedan I know) starts at 62.5k (manual transmission, cloth seats, no metallic paint) therefore the M2 can't start at the high 50s low 60s people would get an M3 or m4 instead (s55 engine bigger car, more hp etc). I'm estimating MSRP of $53,500 (mid point between m235i price and m3 price) no options what so ever, metallic paint and a few upgrades about 56-57k car if the lease is less than $800 a month I'll take it

[gaijin]

Originally Posted by Levi

M2 doesn't stand a chance against the lighter Flat4 Turbo powered Cayman that is coming.

Are we comparing a two-seat sports car against a 4-passenger coupe? Why not compare it in its class against the Audi and Mercedes-Benz coupes?

Overall weight (rear seats alone) alone gives the Porsche a distinct advantage.

[Delnari]

With the M4 being 39% more than the 435i, I don't think BMW could use the same markup percentage for the M2 over the M235i. The M4 carries many features you come to expect from a true M car. The M2 will more than likely not have same level of upgrades as the M4 (we already know the motor won't be a bespoke special) to keep the cost down. The M2 interior won't change from the existing M235i interior to much at least not for the 2016 model release. Think of the M2 as an economy M4 version at first release with lower HP output and slightly less appointments. Smaller dimensions and lower weight would challenge the performance of the existing M4 if too much is down initially before the halo car status is moved to the M2.

We all want the M2 to be a really special car and it will be for the most part. The problem BMW is facing is the same Porsche faced with the Cayman vs 911. A smaller lighter car with great suspension will beat the heavier bigger car in all-around driving performance. It may take some time before BMW moves the M2 into the "Best M Car" circle and give it what it needs to be so. Look forward to tons and tons of magazine reviews and videos comparing the M2 and M4.

[gaijin]

[QUOTE=Delnari;17250582]We all want the M2 to be a really special car and it will be for the most part. The problem BMW is facing is the same Porsche faced with the Cayman vs 911. A smaller lighter car with great suspension will beat the heavier bigger car in all-around driving performance.

Well said. Porsche's marketing has struggled to keep the 911 Series as the halo brand when most know that a properly set-up 987 easily holds its own against the 996/997/991. The mid-engine set-up alone takes the cake track side.

[sgrinavi]

Originally Posted by Canaletto

Not sure why you're so skeptical about the M2. When Evo compared the base Cayman to a M235i without LSD or upgraded brakes, the M235i was already nipping at it's heels.

...

To paraphrase your video:

The Cayman feels like a real sports car and the BMW feels like what it is.



I get it - I like the M2 concept or I wouldn't be here thinking about trading my Cayman S in for one, but I don't think it's going be a better sports car than the Porsche or outperform it by a substantial margin. Especially the S or GTS.

BUT, if the damn thing is in the mid-60's then I'd get a nearly new Cayman S over a new M2 any day of the week.

[W///]

Originally Posted by sgrinavi

To paraphrase your video:

The Cayman feels like a real sports car and the BMW feels like what it is.



I get it - I like the M2 concept or I wouldn't be here thinking about trading my Cayman S in for one, but I don't think it's going be a better sports car than the Porsche or outperform it by a substantial margin. Especially the S or GTS.

BUT, if the damn thing is in the mid-60's then I'd get a nearly new Cayman S over a new M2 any day of the week.

It completely depends what you are looking for I guess. The 2er platform will never match those Porsches. But just like the 1M, the BMW will be better value for the money and more practical. I don't see that changing with the M2.

Not to mention for the money, I think you'll be closer to a base one, yet alone a GTS (new vs new).

[sgrinavi]

Originally Posted by W///

It completely depends what you are looking for I guess. The 2er platform will never match those Porsches. But just like the 1M, the BMW will be better value for the money and more practical. I don't see that changing with the M2.

Not to mention for the money, I think you'll be closer to a base one, yet alone a GTS (new vs new).

M2 will be a better DD as well, my cayman can be a PITA some times.

[M2ALEX]

I have this feeling that BMW will do something drastic with the M2. Nothing is set in stone until official debut. Or am I just being optimistic?

[samtnel]

I'll be in the middle of my 235 lease when the M2 comes out. Does that mean I have to wait??

[BMW F22]

Originally Posted by Canaletto

I wouldn't be surprised if the M2 were close to $60k. Look, for example, at the 435i/M4. The 435i has a base price of $46,250 while the M4 has a base price of $64,200. You're paying 39% more to get the M4.

The M235i has a base price of $43,100. Add 39% to that and you're at $60k.

So I thought about what you wrote and came up with this theory: since the M235 is bridging the gap between the normal car and the M car, it is actually more soupdd up than a 235iz therefore it wouldn't quite be right to use that as the base price and add 39% to it.

Rather, I would use the base price of about $38,500 for a 235 (not M235i) which is about $5,500 difference from the 228 (same with the 428 and 435 and 328 and 335). So $38.5k x 1.39 gives us roughly $53,500. I think that is the sweet spot.

[Colinv6]

Originally Posted by M2ALEX

I have this feeling that BMW will do something drastic with the M2. Nothing is set in stone until official debut. Or am I just being optimistic?

I'm with you here, for a car that's launched in 10 months time, very very little is currently known...

[W///]

Originally Posted by M2ALEX

I have this feeling that BMW will do something drastic with the M2. Nothing is set in stone until official debut. Or am I just being optimistic?

That's the beauty of it. Even if BMW doesn't do anything drastic, I'll already like the car. I've already test driven multiple M3/4 and M235i and liked them both.

So even if the M2 comes out with essentially "just" M3/4 suspension and brakes, I'd still already be happy, even though I'd really like to see CF roof ect ect

[M2ALEX]

Originally Posted by W///

That's the beauty of it. Even if BMW doesn't do anything drastic, I'll already like the car. I've already test driven multiple M3/4 and M235i and liked them both.

So even if the M2 comes out with essentially "just" M3/4 suspension and brakes, I'd still already be happy, even though I'd really like to see CF roof ect ect

Personally my heart is set on the M2, but it has to be worth it in order for me to take the jump.

[Denk]

I'm guessing that a fully optioned M2 will reach the M3 base price. I love the anticipation, new releases are a buzz!

[W///]

Originally Posted by Denk

I'm guessing that a fully optioned M2 will reach the M3 base price. I love the anticipation, new releases are a buzz!

I know right? I think it's really cool to see BMW fans so excited about a car. I definitely don't remember seeing this kind of hype aboutthe f80/2. Personally, I haven't been this excited about a car (that is realistically obtainable for me) since the E92. I followed that car from absolutely the beginning until all the way until I was seeing iND cars.

I already have a few good ideas how I'd mod mine haha

[Lucky13]

The fact that it will not have the M3/M4 engined de tuned and will have the new B series N55 saves money, almost all sources have confirmed this with 370 hp. Standard LSD, standard 19" wheels so I still think a base price of around $54K or $10K more than the M235. Keep in mind that the 2016 gets basically the same engine but with 330 hp which will go into the 3, 4 and 5 series. They need to keep the price down to compete with Audi and Mercedes. I think a nicely optioned M2 in the uppers 50's excluding Navigation and loaded around $62-63K. Considering my 2004 E46 M3 listed for $57K I still call that a bargain if the M2 base is $54-55K. My 2004 was had 19" wheels, premium pkg, CW pkg, upgraded stereo but no nav. Backup camera is gov't mandated for 2016 so BMW will have to add that and bury the price somewhere

[alz0rz]

Originally Posted by Lucky13

The fact that it will not have the M3/M4 engined de tuned and will have the new B series N55 saves money, almost all sources have confirmed this with 370 hp. Standard LSD, standard 19" wheels so I still think a base price of around $54K or $10K more than the M235. Keep in mind that the 2016 gets basically the same engine but with 330 hp which will go into the 3, 4 and 5 series. They need to keep the price down to compete with Audi and Mercedes. I think a nicely optioned M2 in the uppers 50's excluding Navigation and loaded around $62-63K. Considering my 2004 E46 M3 listed for $57K I still call that a bargain if the M2 base is $54-55K. My 2004 was had 19" wheels, premium pkg, CW pkg, upgraded stereo but no nav. Backup camera is gov't mandated for 2016 so BMW will have to add that and bury the price somewhere

Government mandated backup cameras take effect for 2018 MY.

[tdizzle]

Originally Posted by Lucky13

The fact that it will not have the M3/M4 engined de tuned and will have the new B series N55 saves money, almost all sources have confirmed this with 370 hp. Standard LSD, standard 19" wheels so I still think a base price of around $54K or $10K more than the M235. Keep in mind that the 2016 gets basically the same engine but with 330 hp which will go into the 3, 4 and 5 series. They need to keep the price down to compete with Audi and Mercedes. I think a nicely optioned M2 in the uppers 50's excluding Navigation and loaded around $62-63K. Considering my 2004 E46 M3 listed for $57K I still call that a bargain if the M2 base is $54-55K. My 2004 was had 19" wheels, premium pkg, CW pkg, upgraded stereo but no nav. Backup camera is gov't mandated for 2016 so BMW will have to add that and bury the price somewhere

+1

I calculated the numbers differently but my guess came right at yours. I said well optioned around $62k which bumps right next to the M3/M4 base.

[W///]

Originally Posted by tdizzle

+1

I calculated the numbers differently but my guess came right at yours. I said well optioned around $62k which bumps right next to the M3/M4 base.

"Well optioned" is not a very easy task to try to figure out. Let's say they start offering things like carbon ceramic brakes. Boom there goes $8000.

So it's somewhat easy to speculate what a base price is, but we have no idea what a really really loaded car will be.

[tdizzle]

Originally Posted by W///

"Well optioned" is not a very easy task to try to figure out. Let's say they start offering things like carbon ceramic brakes. Boom there goes $8000.

So it's somewhat easy to speculate what a base price is, but we have no idea what a really really loaded car will be.

Fair enough, I meant well optioned in terms of what's general available on 2/3 series cars. Pretty much anything outside of CCB and driver's assistance, i.e., the stuff most people end up getting if not on a too tight of a budget.

I wonder if CCB will even be an option? I didn't even consider it.