[fryguy]

I've currently got a 2011 135 w/ DCT and am generally in the market for a new car this year. I'm pretty bummed that they stopped putting DCT in non-M BMWs.

Has anyone gone from 135 -> 235 auto and can comment on how it compares? I obviously plan on test driving it to see, but subtleties of transmissions aren't exactly evident in a 20-30 min testdrive.

[davefromfla]

I had the 135 DCT before getting the M235 with auto. I don't think the DCT was much quicker than the 8 speed- I can't really tell any difference, that's how quick the 8 speed shifts. Paddle shifts feel about as fast too. Auto does not have that annoying lurch the DCT has when taking off from a stop, so it actually feels quicker off the line. Also get better cruising mileage by about 2 MPG with the 8 speed. Last week driving 227 miles to Ft. Lauderdale, I got 31.1 MPG ay an average of 77.5 MPH. That was with only about 500 miles on the car.

[Cyberdemon]

I haven't run the 1 series with the DCT but I've got a bit of track time behind the E92 M3 with the DCT and acronyms aside I think you'd be hard pressed to be disappointed by the ZF8, especially when it's set to it's most aggressive settings. If you ever drove the older 6spd auto that was in the E90's it was an absolute dog compared to the ZF8.

In real world daily driving I would give the hand to the ZF8. It's got better low speed manners, the 8th gear for super efficient cruising, and can be softened up to be extremely comfortable - tap it into Sport+/Manual mode and it'll fire of gears in brutal fashion. Even my test drive of the latest M3 the DCT still exhibited a little weirdness taking off at slow speed in traffic (which is not a place any M3 should be).

I would not have any hesitations making the switch, and before my BMW's I only drove manuals - it took a lot to convince me to switch to an automatic but the ZF8 did it.

[RedRocketM2]

I agree with the above posts as well. I had a 2011 135i with the M-DCT which I traded last fall for the M235i X Drive with the 8-speed auto. It is so much smoother then the DCT with no lurching at slow speeds. It feels just as fast when in sport+ mode. I to was worried if I would like this regular auto but it is one amazing slush box!!! I have no regrets!! Not to mention the M235i is a pretty big step forward from the 135i, I am sure you will love it

[Kayevman]

Originally Posted by fryguy

I've currently got a 2011 135 w/ DCT and am generally in the market for a new car this year. I'm pretty bummed that they stopped putting DCT in non-M BMWs.

Has anyone gone from 135 -> 235 auto and can comment on how it compares? I obviously plan on test driving it to see, but subtleties of transmissions aren't exactly evident in a 20-30 min testdrive.

The auto will rev higher and shifts very quickly. I find it less engaging than the DCT and it seems to offer less speed control when downshifting. I rarely switch the automatic manually because it does it better than I can. Sport mode with X-Drive and auto seems blazingly fast.

[den525]

When the old 135 coupe first came out I tested one and I hated the dct gearbox, and decided against buying the car, same for the a45.

M235i's zf gearbox is better than majority of dct in the price range.

To be honest, I don't think bmw make good dct gearbox at all.

[M_Proper]

I've never owned a 135i DCT but I did test drive one. It was impressive.

In fact - it was the first transmission that made me consider ever buying a sports car without a manual transmission.

But I never did.

2 years later I drove the m235i with the ZF8. I told the sales manager I wanted a manual before driving their demo. He insisted I drive the auto they had on the lot. I did. I was impressed again. And I bought one with a ZF8.

Not only no regrets, I am extremely happy I did so.

This is coming from a pure manual guy with a long list of the world's best in the garage.

I predict that you won't be disappointed when you finally drive one.

[kd0t]

Sorry to derail the thread, but can someone please explain what the "lurching" at slow speeds with the DCT?

I was under the impression that BMW's DCT was far superior than Audi and Mercedes.

[CF22]

Originally Posted by kd0t

Sorry to derail the thread, but can someone please explain what the "lurching" at slow speeds with the DCT?

I was under the impression that BMW's DCT was far superior than Audi and Mercedes.

Think of it as hiccups at low speeds, the transmission is trying to think which gear to select, it's a killer in stop and go traffic.

VW/Audi's DSG is one of the better ones, never heard great things about the BMW DCT and the one on the A45 AMG is downright bad.

[Cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by kd0t

Sorry to derail the thread, but can someone please explain what the "lurching" at slow speeds with the DCT?

I was under the impression that BMW's DCT was far superior than Audi and Mercedes.

A DCT is a computer controlled clutch. As a result, it is designed to be engaged or disengaged, not somewhere in between. With a manual transmission, you are able to slip the clutch to smooth the engagement. A DCT has a harder time with that, and old DCTs were notoriously bad at it.

As a result, when using a DCT in 1st gear or reverse, the computer is trying to calculate how to have the clutch engaged which can sometimes lead to the car accelerating more harshly. Occasionally you'll get to a weird speed especially in stop and go traffic where the car is engaging and disengaging the clutch quickly to try to regulate what you want and it is noticeable. The new DCT's are very good, but it can occasionally be noticed. The fact that you have cars with a ton of torque doesn't help the situation.

An automatic transmission with a torque converter does not have this problem, it can slowly apply the torque which smooths out starts.

[midwest 340xi 6sp]

Originally Posted by Cyberdemon

I haven't run the 1 series with the DCT but I've got a bit of track time behind the E92 M3 with the DCT and acronyms aside I think you'd be hard pressed to be disappointed by the ZF8, especially when it's set to it's most aggressive settings. If you ever drove the older 6spd auto that was in the E90's it was an absolute dog compared to the ZF8.

In real world daily driving I would give the hand to the ZF8. It's got better low speed manners, the 8th gear for super efficient cruising, and can be softened up to be extremely comfortable - tap it into Sport+/Manual mode and it'll fire of gears in brutal fashion. Even my test drive of the latest M3 the DCT still exhibited a little weirdness taking off at slow speed in traffic (which is not a place any M3 should be)I would not have any hesitations making the switch, and before my BMW's I only drove manuals - it took a lot to convince me to switch to an automatic but the ZF8 did it.

Says another previous E92 M3 w/dct owner who now drives M235xi with 8at.

[M_Proper]

Originally Posted by Cyberdemon

A DCT is a computer controlled clutch. As a result, it is designed to be engaged or disengaged, not somewhere in between. With a manual transmission, you are able to slip the clutch to smooth the engagement. A DCT has a harder time with that, and old DCTs were notoriously bad at it.

As a result, when using a DCT in 1st gear or reverse, the computer is trying to calculate how to have the clutch engaged which can sometimes lead to the car accelerating more harshly. Occasionally you'll get to a weird speed especially in stop and go traffic where the car is engaging and disengaging the clutch quickly to try to regulate what you want and it is noticeable. The new DCT's are very good, but it can occasionally be noticed. The fact that you have cars with a ton of torque doesn't help the situation.

An automatic transmission with a torque converter does not have this problem, it can slowly apply the torque which smooths out starts.

That was an awesome explanation.

[david.orr]

Originally Posted by Cyberdemon

I haven't run the 1 series with the DCT but I've got a bit of track time behind the E92 M3 with the DCT and acronyms aside I think you'd be hard pressed to be disappointed by the ZF8, especially when it's set to it's most aggressive settings. If you ever drove the older 6spd auto that was in the E90's it was an absolute dog compared to the ZF8.

In real world daily driving I would give the hand to the ZF8. It's got better low speed manners, the 8th gear for super efficient cruising, and can be softened up to be extremely comfortable - tap it into Sport+/Manual mode and it'll fire of gears in brutal fashion. Even my test drive of the latest M3 the DCT still exhibited a little weirdness taking off at slow speed in traffic (which is not a place any M3 should be).

I would not have any hesitations making the switch, and before my BMW's I only drove manuals - it took a lot to convince me to switch to an automatic but the ZF8 did it.

Originally Posted by Cyberdemon

A DCT is a computer controlled clutch. As a result, it is designed to be engaged or disengaged, not somewhere in between. With a manual transmission, you are able to slip the clutch to smooth the engagement. A DCT has a harder time with that, and old DCTs were notoriously bad at it.

As a result, when using a DCT in 1st gear or reverse, the computer is trying to calculate how to have the clutch engaged which can sometimes lead to the car accelerating more harshly. Occasionally you'll get to a weird speed especially in stop and go traffic where the car is engaging and disengaging the clutch quickly to try to regulate what you want and it is noticeable. The new DCT's are very good, but it can occasionally be noticed. The fact that you have cars with a ton of torque doesn't help the situation.

An automatic transmission with a torque converter does not have this problem, it can slowly apply the torque which smooths out starts.

[david.orr]

Originally Posted by fryguy

I've currently got a 2011 135 w/ DCT and am generally in the market for a new car this year. I'm pretty bummed that they stopped putting DCT in non-M BMWs.

Has anyone gone from 135 -> 235 auto and can comment on how it compares? I obviously plan on test driving it to see, but subtleties of transmissions aren't exactly evident in a 20-30 min testdrive.

I agree with the other sentiments re: ZF8, it's a great 8AT and having come from my first and only auto/DCT (in A45), I'm very happy with the seamless and quick engagement of the ZF8, both up and down.

May I however suggest that unless you must have an auto/DCT, you should test drive a manual 235 as well.

I didn't do that myself cos I liked the ZF8 in my missus' 125 and bought the auto 235. Driving my manual 1M (which numbers are close to 235), I often imagine how wonderful a manual 235 would feel. I haven't driven a manual 235 for fear of regretting my auto purchase. Just my 2 cents, FWIW.

[david.orr]

Originally Posted by CF22

VW/Audi's DSG is one of the better ones, never heard great things about the BMW DCT and the one on the A45 AMG is downright bad.

IMO that's the general misconception, even amongst the motoring media. AMG A45 uses the same DCT software in AMG SLS and there hasn't been much complaint with AMG SLS. The DCT in A45 is however mated with a 2 litre 4 cylinder engine, a single high-boost large turbo and managed by an aggressive ECU map. Shops like Rebellion has since managed to find a better balance for the 45 components (including exhaust) and I understand the DCT (downshift lag) issues less evident