[moldcad]

Not that it really matters much, but having swapped the F10 for the M235i I'm probably more prone to see the class-related differences in those finish touches than most other owners. One such difference - unfortunately, screaming "I'm just a 2-series car, so don't expect me to look and feel exactly how your 5-series did" - is that with headlights off (i.e. with just the daytime running lights), the scale, numbers and needles in both the speedo and tachometer "clocks" are not illuminated at all!

I was expecting those areas to be backlit with white light, just as they were in my F10 and - for that matter - are in my Golf R. This really adds elegance to the whole "inside experience" (not to mention the fact that for a seriously far-sighted person like me, it makes both displays readable much easier even with the peripheral part of my eye "field of view"). Until the headlights come on (either automatically or with myself switching them on) - when the whole dashboard with all its indicators and gauges get properly illuminated with the typical for BMW, amber light - the two main clocks area looks really poor; almost as if something was broken in the internal lighting system... The only areas lighted white being the instrument central cluster with enhanced features in-between and below the 2 clocks, by contrast the clocks look even more "dead-like". I even browsed the iDrive menu in hope the lighting can be turned on, but found nothing

Is it just me (due to being used to how it worked in the F10 and is working with the other of my two cars, the Golf R) - or do you guys also find it rather disappointing?

[SquireGlig]

Coming from an E46, it doesn't bother me

[BMW335iOn18s]

Do you have the basic cluster or the extended one? Either way, my cluster is way nicer than my old mk6 Jetta was, even with the highline cluster that comes in the GLI (2.0T for Europeans).

[hoppy6698]

Originally Posted by SquireGlig

Coming from an E46, it doesn't bother me

I came from an Audi A4 (2009), which did the same thing. Unlit with DRLs, but fully lit when the headlights are on. Not sure why I would want the orange lighting 24 hours a day, the white are easier to see with sunglasses on

[moldcad]

I don't miss the amber lighting 24 hours a day; what I mean is white lighting during the day, and amber at night. This is how my F10 was; my current VW Golf R also has white lighting (this color is 24 hours a day indeed, but of course the intensity changes depending on ambient light). In comparison to the 2 cars mentioned, during a dull day the white elements of M235i's dashboard look "sad" and cheap due to the lack of white daytime lighting...

[2+3=5]

Originally Posted by SquireGlig

Coming from an E46, it doesn't bother me

Me too

[moldcad]

As you can see in my sig, I'm also coming from the E46 330i - and yet it bothers me. OK I can understand differences in luxury items between F10 and F22 (after all, the M235i is 3 levels down in BMW's own "series hierarchy) - but if a Golf can have it?!!

Now each time I switch between my current cars (the R and the M235i), I suffer from the seemingly lower level of inside refinement in the latter.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by moldcad

Not that it really matters much, but having swapped the F10 for the M235i I'm probably more prone to see the class-related differences in those finish touches than most other owners. One such difference - unfortunately, screaming "I'm just a 2-series car, so don't expect me to look and feel exactly how your 5-series did" - is that with headlights off (i.e. with just the daytime running lights), the scale, numbers and needles in both the speedo and tachometer "clocks" are not illuminated at all!

I was expecting those areas to be backlit with white light, just as they were in my F10 and - for that matter - are in my Golf R. This really adds elegance to the whole "inside experience" (not to mention the fact that for a seriously far-sighted person like me, it makes both displays readable much easier even with the peripheral part of my eye "field of view"). Until the headlights come on (either automatically or with myself switching them on) - when the whole dashboard with all its indicators and gauges get properly illuminated with the typical for BMW, amber light - the two main clocks area looks really poor; almost as if something was broken in the internal lighting system... The only areas lighted white being the instrument central cluster with enhanced features in-between and below the 2 clocks, by contrast the clocks look even more "dead-like". I even browsed the iDrive menu in hope the lighting can be turned on, but found nothing

Is it just me (due to being used to how it worked in the F10 and is working with the other of my two cars, the Golf R) - or do you guys also find it rather disappointing?

It bugs me, too. I turn auto headlights off during the day to keep tunnels and such from activating the bi-xenons ... and the dials are completely unreadable in those situations. Even my 2009 WRX had daytime gauge backlighting ... I think the last car I didn't have that on was my MINI, which didn't need it because of its gauge-dash design.

It's another argument for having a digital speedo as a display option in the center info display.

[nike001]

Originally Posted by SquireGlig

Coming from an E46, it doesn't bother me

Originally Posted by 2+3=5

Me too

Me 3!

Keep in mind that the 2er is considered by a lot to be the "entry level" BMW, so it doesn't get some of the things the higher end vehicles do. I'm completely fine with everything the car as is, but I personally feel that BMW should've given us the carpet that's in every other BMW and not whichever synthetic material they use to line the inside of the vehicle.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by nike001

Me 3!

Keep in mind that the 2er is considered by a lot to be the "entry level" BMW, so it doesn't get some of the things the higher end vehicles do.

Some of the things that the 2-series is missing are common on significantly lower-end vehicles (hence my mention of the '09 WRX, which despite its performance capabilities I definitely consider lower end than any BMW. I mean, it still used a double-DIN stereo setup ... ). Daytime backlighting on the primary gauges is one -- and worthy of discussion for two reasons:
- It can't be added with a 'package' like some other omissions can be
- Most 2-series competitors have this feature either standard or selectable

It's one of the few things I dislike about my car.

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by moldcad

Not that it really matters much, but having swapped the F10 for the M235i I'm probably more prone to see the class-related differences in those finish touches than most other owners. One such difference - unfortunately, screaming "I'm just a 2-series car, so don't expect me to look and feel exactly how your 5-series did" - is that with headlights off (i.e. with just the daytime running lights), the scale, numbers and needles in both the speedo and tachometer "clocks" are not illuminated at all!

I was expecting those areas to be backlit with white light, just as they were in my F10 and - for that matter - are in my Golf R. This really adds elegance to the whole "inside experience" (not to mention the fact that for a seriously far-sighted person like me, it makes both displays readable much easier even with the peripheral part of my eye "field of view"). Until the headlights come on (either automatically or with myself switching them on) - when the whole dashboard with all its indicators and gauges get properly illuminated with the typical for BMW, amber light - the two main clocks area looks really poor; almost as if something was broken in the internal lighting system... The only areas lighted white being the instrument central cluster with enhanced features in-between and below the 2 clocks, by contrast the clocks look even more "dead-like". I even browsed the iDrive menu in hope the lighting can be turned on, but found nothing

Is it just me (due to being used to how it worked in the F10 and is working with the other of my two cars, the Golf R) - or do you guys also find it rather disappointing?

Do you have a pic? I have no idea what you are referring to

[Icy J]

Never been in a situation where I've felt that having illumination during daytime would be of any use, both for aesthetics or for function...

[SquireGlig]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Some of the things that the 2-series is missing are common on significantly lower-end vehicles (hence my mention of the '09 WRX, which despite its performance capabilities I definitely consider lower end than any BMW. I mean, it still used a double-DIN stereo setup ... ). Daytime backlighting on the primary gauges is one -- and worthy of discussion for two reasons:
- It can't be added with a 'package' like some other omissions can be
- Most 2-series competitors have this feature either standard or selectable

It's one of the few things I dislike about my car.

I can see wanting it to be an option. However, I don't think the entry in the BMW line is particularly known for a lot of features at any time, so comparing to models of non-luxury manufacturers is not really apples to apples. Out of curiousity, did the 1 series have this as an option?

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by SquireGlig

I can see wanting it to be an option. However, I don't think the entry in the BMW line is particularly known for a lot of features at any time, so comparing to models of non-luxury manufacturers is not really apples to apples. Out of curiousity, did the 1 series have this as an option?

Compared wth the higher models in a marque's lineup, no: entry-level cars from that same marque won't have the same or similar feature set. But in the U.S. market, I would expect a luxury marque such as BMW to have certain common features across the lineup that many cars below the marque also have as common features - as well as some (auto climate control, for instance) that aren't common among below the marque.

Besides, my second reason - that most, if not all, 2-series competitors have this particular feature - trumps your reasoning. Daytime gauge backlighting is now beyond common among both luxury and non-luxury marques. The 2-series' fuel gauge partially functions this way as part of the info display - it would not have cost BMW much at all to design the primary dial gauges to have equivalent always-on daytime white backlighting.

[SquireGlig]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Compared wth the higher models in a marque's lineup, no: entry-level cars from that same marque won't have the same or similar feature set. But in the U.S. market, I would expect a luxury marque such as BMW to have certain common features across the lineup that many cars below the marque also have as common features - as well as some (auto climate control, for instance) that aren't common among below the marque.

Besides, my second reason - that most, if not all, 2-series competitors have this particular feature - trumps your reasoning. Daytime gauge backlighting is now beyond common among both luxury and non-luxury marques. The 2-series' fuel gauge partially functions this way as part of the info display - it would not have cost BMW much at all to design the primary dial gauges to have equivalent always-on daytime white backlighting.

Totally agree with your reasoning, I'm just saying I don't feel BMW is very feature heavy in its entry level models, compared to other brands (lux brands included), which is why it doesn't surprise they are missing things like this.

[Kiwi]

Originally Posted by SquireGlig

Totally agree with your reasoning, I'm just saying I don't feel BMW is very feature heavy in its entry level models, compared to other brands (lux brands included), which is why it doesn't surprise they are missing things like this.

Depends which country you buy your BMW. They are each built to what each country orders. America BMW has their own ideas of what is ordered.

You have to remember BMW put a lot of money into performance of their cars and this includes corning.

Hardly any drivers in our country use day lights on and hope it never becomes law. How much cotton wool do we need to rap around people. It's bad enough getting American built cars with all the alarms you people seem to need just to function. We don't have to worry about liability at all because we cannot sue anyone for injury no matter what it is. Even a tourist/visiter to our country cannot sue as we will fix them up free and then they can go back to their own country.

[ryanrule]

coming from a 2001 mustang....


i do wish their was a car company that would put all the flagship features in a small coupe. i dont want to drive a big ass luxury barge around, but i like the toys.

[nike001]

Originally Posted by SquireGlig

Totally agree with your reasoning, I'm just saying I don't feel BMW is very feature heavy in its entry level models, compared to other brands (lux brands included), which is why it doesn't surprise they are missing things like this.

Of course it isn't. If they were feature heavy, it wouldn't be an entry model.
I always find it funny when people are saying that a ford focus has xyz when BMW doesn't. Ford doesn't dominate the International Engine of the Year awards, ford doesn't win nearly every C&D, Motortrend etc etc head to head. The list can go on and on; It's not about features for BMW - it's about the car.

My past & present BMW's could have nothing but a seat, gas/brake/clutch pedal and a steering wheel and I'd be happy. I don't need high resolution screens with 'this' kind of leather, or features to park the car. Those are just bonus's for an already extravagant car. BMW is a driver first company. Driver being key word. You DRIVE a BMW. You're merely an operator in most other cars.

[moldcad]

If I may disagree, gentlemen: as the OP of this thread, I think I've proven that the M235i being a driver's car and a "real BMW' have been the main reasons behind my decision to get rid of the luxurious F10 and buy the - as you put it - entry level model. However, I believe that being a driver's car while at the same time providing a certain level of luxury and premium feel are not mutually exclusive. Unfortunately -as much as I love my M235i - I can see more and more evidence of BMW cutting corners to make their profits even higher.

The materials and build quality are much worse than those in say the E46, which more then 10 years ago also was the entry level model.

[nike001]

Originally Posted by moldcad

If I may disagree, gentlemen: as the OP of this thread, I think I've proven that the M235i being a driver's car and a "real BMW' have been the main reasons behind my decision to get rid of the luxurious F10 and buy the - as you put it - entry level model. However, I believe that being a driver's car while at the same time providing a certain level of luxury and premium feel are not mutually exclusive. Unfortunately -as much as I love my M235i - I can see more and more evidence of BMW cutting corners to make their profits even higher.

The materials and build quality are much worse than those in say the E46, which more then 10 years ago also was the entry level model.

Disagreement isn't ever frowned upon.

Coming from an E39 5er & and E46 330i ZHP, I'm having a hard time seeing those corners cut that you've brought up. Having my 330i torn apart upside down & inside-out, I don't feel like I've given up anything in regards to materials or build quality (quite the opposite actually). As I've said before (maybe in another thread) that the only thing I've noticed to be "less-er" is the synthetic material they used for carpet lining; That, and the driver's side floor mat doesn't have that pad anymore and I'm already seeing wear where I rotate my heel from clutch to brake and vice versa.

In the E90 it seemed to be lesser quality than the E46, but I don't see it going from E46 to F22, or even E46 to F30 (to keep it relevant to 3-series models).

[SquireGlig]

I agree my e46 seemed worse in build materials than my m235i. Build quality is for debate so far, not much experience yet for me to comment. Earlier, I was referring to toys as features, the car I ordered is a Canadian m235i with just the sunroof as an option. Definitely bought the car for the drivetrain