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2Addicts | BMW 2-Series forum BMW 2 Series (F22) Forum BMW 2 Series Coupe and Cabriolet (F22/F23) General Forum (Solved)Manual transmission issue - Can't downshift to 2nd gear

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      04-19-2015, 01:41 PM   #23
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Downshifting from 3rd to 2nd is difficult in BMW geaboxes because you can inadvertently get stuck on the reverse gate. Blame idiotic BMW/Mini reverse gear engineering which prioritizes comfort/laziness over shift precision and speed (Audi/VW do this right because in their setup reverse gear never gets in the way). I feel that OP doesn't have a skill or experience to shift smoothly to 2nd gear using this stupid BMW setup. I don't blame him. I myself would have bought Audi S3 without a second thought if it was offered with a manual transmission just because you can shift VAG gearboxes much faster.
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      04-19-2015, 01:54 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Wheelwright View Post
Downshifting from 3rd to 2nd is difficult in BMW geaboxes because you can inadvertently get stuck on the reverse gate. Blame idiotic BMW/Mini reverse gear engineering which prioritizes comfort/laziness over shift precision and speed (Audi/VW do this right...
I though the bmw where 1st and reverse are located was the ideal for the track.
1st is just a start gear that you wouldn't engage in dicing or racing. At high speed your 5th and 6th are straight forward with no revere near by.
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      04-19-2015, 03:40 PM   #25
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This is my third BMW with this 6 speed manual and never any issue like that
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      04-19-2015, 04:02 PM   #26
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This is my third BMW with this 6 speed manual and never any issue like that
I put the damn gearbox into reverse by mistake 2 times and almost rammed cars behind me. Here is the situation: I had engine switched off and as green light surprised me I wanted to engage first quickly so as not to block others waiting behind me. Therefore I rushed the shift and moved the lever all the way left and forward thus engaging the reverse gear inadvertently. So in my personal experience not only is BMW's stupid gearbox design an impediment to speed and accuracy of shifting it can also be dangerously unpredictable in everyday traffic situations.
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      04-19-2015, 08:49 PM   #27
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Thanks for the help from the above posters. Again, I believe the reverse gear gate was not the issue in my case.
When I shift to 2nd from the neutral position, I would always cup the lever with the palm of my hand and push it down left diagonally.

The dealer was indeed no help. I did replicate the issue and showed to them and they insisted it was normal and the car was trying to protect itself from money-shift and other funny excuses.

Another way to accommodate for the problem was simply to shift the lever to 2nd gear while the RPM is low from the high gear, then perform the rev-match and let off the clutch.
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      04-19-2015, 10:27 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheelwright View Post
Downshifting from 3rd to 2nd is difficult in BMW geaboxes because you can inadvertently get stuck on the reverse gate. Blame idiotic BMW/Mini reverse gear engineering which prioritizes comfort/laziness over shift precision and speed (Audi/VW do this right because in their setup reverse gear never gets in the way). I feel that OP doesn't have a skill or experience to shift smoothly to 2nd gear using this stupid BMW setup. I don't blame him. I myself would have bought Audi S3 without a second thought if it was offered with a manual transmission just because you can shift VAG gearboxes much faster.
Wow, it's crazy for me to read this; my opinion and experience are the exact opposite of yours. I've never driven a manual Audi, but I have driven several late-model VW manuals, and for me, the reverse position and selection process in the M235i is *much* better than the VWs.

One of my favorite things about the M235i manual is how much force it takes to get the shifter to go left when shifting into reverse. It blows my mind that anyone could accidentally shift into reverse--it takes at least 10 times more force to get it over there than it does to move into any other gear. It takes so much intention to get it over there, I never have to worry about it.

On the other hand, VW gearboxes only require a modest downward force to get into reverse (which is located in the same place on the gear 'map' as BMWs), which, for me, was much, much easier to do accidentally. I did it many times. Anyway, that's my 2¢, obviously we've had pretty different experiences.

Also, as per OP, I've never had any problem doing a rapid shift from 3rd to 2nd--from what you've said, I'd say there is something wrong with your gearbox.
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      04-20-2015, 07:02 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Merc for hire View Post
The dealer was indeed no help. I did replicate the issue and showed to them and they insisted it was normal and the car was trying to protect itself from money-shift and other funny excuses.

Another way to accommodate for the problem was simply to shift the lever to 2nd gear while the RPM is low from the high gear, then perform the rev-match and let off the clutch.
You may want to complete your heel and toes with a DOUBLE CLUTCH while in neutral for the exchange from 3rd to 2nd this will slow down the gearbox to allow the gear to slip in easier.
When you heel an toe just try to add between 1000 or 1200 rpm for the anticipated requirement for rpm in the lower gear.
The DOUBLE CLUTCH is simply letting out the clutch pedal completely then depressing it again as your in neutral going frm 3rd to 2nd.
Even after 6k miles on my car I tend to add too much gas on my heal and toe when driving in anger though for my daily driving I heel and toe pretty good don't even realize I'm doing it. The M235 in sport mode the revs really fly with the gas, more so then the base Cayman I test drove as I recall.

Last edited by overcoil; 04-20-2015 at 08:39 AM..
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      04-20-2015, 07:16 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottomfg View Post
Wow, it's crazy for me to read this; my opinion and experience are the exact opposite of yours. I've never driven a manual Audi, but I have driven several late-model VW manuals, and for me, the reverse position and selection process in the M235i is *much* better than the VWs.

One of my favorite things about the M235i manual is how much force it takes to get the shifter to go left when shifting into reverse. It blows my mind that anyone could accidentally shift into reverse--it takes at least 10 times more force to get it over there than it does to move into any other gear. It takes so much intention to get it over there, I never have to worry about it.

On the other hand, VW gearboxes only require a modest downward force to get into reverse (which is located in the same place on the gear 'map' as BMWs), which, for me, was much, much easier to do accidentally. I did it many times. Anyway, that's my 2¢, obviously we've had pretty different experiences.

Also, as per OP, I've never had any problem doing a rapid shift from 3rd to 2nd--from what you've said, I'd say there is something wrong with your gearbox.
Agree with everything you said. I've never had any issue with the manual in my 228.
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      04-20-2015, 07:57 AM   #31
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Bombing toward the extreme western edge of continental Europe -- a rocky outcropping near Sintra, Portugal, called Cabo da Roca -- it hit me that I'd held this particular stick before. But where? Then, on a quick 3-2 downshift where I missed second and the lever wound up banging against a dead spot I call a "ghost detent," it hit me. This is the same plug-n-play ZF unit used by BMW for the 335i.
So it is not only me: even some professional test drivers are hampered by this BMW-style reverse gear setup.
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      04-20-2015, 12:47 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheelwright View Post
So it is not only me: even some professional test drivers are hampered by this BMW-style reverse gear setup.
Every time I have to fill out one of the surveys where they have something to write to the engineers I tell them to ditch the horrible reverse lockout for a setup like Audi has.
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      08-06-2015, 12:28 PM   #33
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Just to update my thread from few month ago.

Yes, thanks to MrBucket and Wheelwright. They were absolutely correct! I was getting stuck on the reverse gate when I try to slam the gear lever in the down/left direction.

After knowing this, I learnt to softly move the lever to the left and then down to avoid getting stuck on the reverse gate. However, during spirited driving, it unavoidably happens once a while.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheelwright View Post
Downshifting from 3rd to 2nd is difficult in BMW geaboxes because you can inadvertently get stuck on the reverse gate. Blame idiotic BMW/Mini reverse gear engineering which prioritizes comfort/laziness over shift precision and speed (Audi/VW do this right because in their setup reverse gear never gets in the way). I feel that OP doesn't have a skill or experience to shift smoothly to 2nd gear using this stupid BMW setup. I don't blame him. I myself would have bought Audi S3 without a second thought if it was offered with a manual transmission just because you can shift VAG gearboxes much faster.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBucket View Post
I may have an idea of what is going on as I noticed its something I've done on occasion downshifting into second.

I've noticed that when downshifting I sometimes push the shift lever too far to the left where reverse is forward. I'm not a fan of how with BMW's reverse lockout you just push a little bit harder past where the gates for 1st and 2nd are. I much prefer how Audi does it for 6 speed shift patterns where you need to push down vertically on the shifter when its pushed leftwards.


It doesn't make any grinding noises or anything and it wont go into gear. You are probably wiggling it just enough to get it to pop back out past the lockout by the time the revs drop and then are able to get it in.

Last edited by Merc for hire; 08-09-2015 at 12:56 PM..
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      08-06-2015, 12:39 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Merc for hire View Post
Just to update my thread from few month ago.

Yes, Wheelwright was absolutely correct! I was getting stuck on the reverse gate when I try to slam the gear lever in the down/left direction.
This is a horrible design on the design.

After knowing this, I learnt to softly move the lever to the left and then down to avoid getting stuck on the reverse gate. However, during spirited driving, it unavoidably happens once a while.
I you what it was a whole week before he did
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