[ecaedus]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

The CLA AMG does just that ( hence the name AMG)... and from those 3 models, M235i, S3 and CLA AMG, the Mercedes does it MUCH better, no doubt!

i don't think the cla amg should be compared to the M235i at all, there's gonna be a M2 and RS3 for that. also they are not in the same price range so i guess not a lot of people are going to cross shop them.

cla does look pretty good from the outside, saw a couple here in socal, but inside the thing is pretty bare. the interior is no better than my friends C300 from 2009. almost the same control panel and lower dash with that num pad(god i hate those so much...)

[creepy coupe]

I don't see them as anything like comparable.

[starbai]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

I'm glad you have asked this question... you don't buy a Rolex based on experience, do you?!

It's a luxury item, one that you wear to feel good about yourself, something that helps projecting yourself's image to the others.

If you just needed something to give you the time you would buy a cheap Casio instead.

The CLA AMG looks more like a Rolex to me from every perspective, looks, technology, materials quality and design, than the Casio looking M235i... comparatively speaking of course. And, they are equally fast... we know that from the quoted figures and we know they can deliver it because like Rolex, Mercedes-Benz and BMW already have a premium brand image.

So, what do you want from a premium product?!

Experience has nothing to do with it!

I disagree.. AMG or not, I see a cheap car that is dressed and stuffed with an awesome but still 4cyl motor. Nothing about the CLA impresses me least of all its droopy, homely shape. (Other than that engine)

If I saw an CLA45 AMG, I'd think to myself, now why would someone actually spend the money on that when you could get XXX slightly used, or even a loaded M235i?

All this shit is subjective so I'm not hating on anyone else's opinions here. But I think, in your analogy, a CLA45 is far from a Rolex. Maybe a Movado at best.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by starbai

But I think, in your analogy, a CLA45 is far from a Rolex. Maybe a Movado at best.

Next to a M235i the CLA certainly looks like a Rolex... and hey, I don't even wear a watch, go figure!

But independently of what my opinion is the fact is the CLA is selling like hot-cakes... either BMW take a different path and go back to their roots or they will loose this game.

This is the game which Mercedes-Benz got known for, they do it for ages... luxury looking, fast cars with the AMG sports touch here and there, only this time they brought it to a younger audience normally associated with driving thrills.

And that's precisely where the BMW of yore would feel the gap... but instead they've decided they want to play Mercedes game, probably by looking at what Audi as accomplished in the last decade, with bigger, heavier, faster and ultimately less thrilling cars.

Except that Audi already had the Quattro technology - that's what gave Audi recognition in the first place - and Mercedes is building its image around the 4Matic moniker for some time now with undeniable success... so, what about BMW?!

Do BMW really think they can keep on building heavier and increasingly powerful/torquier cars only based on a RWD layout without transforming themselves into what Mercedes do best?!

Won't BMW also have to start seriously marketing their 4-wheel drive technology for their M line?! Isn't that already happening?! So, what differentiates them?!

Or, on the other hand, could BMW start seriously invest on lightweight technologies and small, less powerful truly fuel-efficient engines and be, once and for all, faithful to their roots of the now missed genuine RWD only driving thrills?!

You see, that's the reason why the 1M, despite of all its inherent shortcomings namely the heavy weight, was such a winner... it was the best they could bring in resemblance to their past, in a truly distinctive way from the competition. There's nothing quite like it...

[GoingTooFast]

It's time for BMW to make a statement and that's not about sheer power... I really hope the M2 will be something else:

Record year for Mercedes-AMG

Strongest year in company’s history with around 32,200 AMG vehicles sold Successful entry into new segments with A 45 AMG, CLA 45 AMG and GLA 45 AMG New versions and all-wheel-drive technology in the superior segments win new customers 2013 was the most successful year ever in the history of Mercedes-AMG. With around 32,200 sports cars and performance models sold, the Mercedes-Benz’s performance brand reached a new sales record. “We are looking back on the company’s strongest year ever,” said Tobias Moers, Chairman of the Board of Management of Mercedes-AMG GmbH. “This extraordinary growth has exceeded even our own expectations. It shows once again that with our “AMG Performance 50” growth strategy, we’re on the right track. It’s a strategy we will continue to build on.” Strong performance in main markets In its three biggest markets US, Germany and UK, the Affalterbach-based company recorded strong demand in 2013, driven by new products and the extension of its distribution network. Among the factors driving this growth was the broad introduction of the all-wheel drive 4MATIC, newly developed by AMG with focus on performance aspects: the facelifts of the E 63 AMG as well as the CLS 63 AMG are now available with AMG all-wheel drive 4MATIC technology and as powerful S-Model. There was also increasing demand for Mercedes-AMG’s SUV models and the new compact cars A 45 AMG and CLA 45 AMG. The product offensive is rounded off by the recently introduced S 63 AMG, which is facing highest demands. Through the product offensive and the introduction of the compact CLA 45 AMG in 2013, Mercedes-AMG was able to steadily increase its sales in the main market USA: With a growth of around 20 percent, the sales volume was considerably above the previous year’s level. AMG’s two main European markets, Germany (up 10 percent) and the UK (up 40 percent) posted strong sales, despite the overall market weakness in the EU. Both markets exceeded their 2013 sales targets. Along with the main markets Mercedes-AMG also posted significant growth in Japan, China, Canada, Russia and Brazil. In the growth market of China, 2013 sales were up around a quarter on the previous year, although the new entry-level A 45 AMG and CLA 45 AMG models, as well as the new S 63 AMG 4MATIC, will not be available there this year. Growth potential from increased number of model variations This dynamic growth of the performance brand has been made possible by the expansion of the product range and entering attractive new segments. With the sporty A 45 AMG, the four-door coupe CLA 45 AMG and the GLA 45 AMG, Mercedes-AMG is offering three new entry-level models. Aimed at customers in their thirties to mid-forties, these models are an attempt by AMG to reach out to new target groups. All three models are equipped with AMG all-wheel drive 4MATIC technology and the world’s most powerful four-cylinder production engine. At the upper ends of the vehicle range, new AMG models of the S-Class and E-Class were introduced in 2013 as well as a new CLS 63 AMG. The E-Class and the CLS 63 AMG are also available as ultra-powerful S-Model and, for the first time, with all-wheel drive. The new vehicles and technology packages have been a hit right from the start: Around 90 percent of buyers of the new E 63 AMG chose AMG all-wheel drive 4MATIC technology. The SLS AMG super sports car has also racked up impressive sales: Since the first model in this series rolled off the production line in the spring of 2010, over 10,000 SLS AMGs have been sold. Later this year, AMG plans to enter a new segment with a sports car it has fully developed itself. Extending the distribution network The AMG Performance Centers are a central plank of the AMG Performance 50 growth strategy. These sales points, which have been part of the Mercedes-Benz distribution network since 2008, create optimal market reach. The centers have their own distinct branding and focus on AMG performance brand products and concepts, as well as on the individualisation options that form part of the designo range. At the end of the year, Mercedes-AMG had a total of 375 AMG performance centers in 27 countries. Further sites are being planned in order to build on the excellent customer service that AMG customers expect. Innovation and development skills at the Affalterbach plant In 2013 the company again proved itself to be the Daimler Group’s standard-bearer when it comes to technological innovation. AMG engineers at the Affalterbach site cover every aspect of the vehicle development process and are involved in the development processes of Mercedes-Benz at the earliest possible stage. For example, in addition to the new 4MATIC drive system all four-wheel-drive models launched in 2013 have axle components developed of Mercedes-AMG as well as completely new front axles. The four-wheel-drive models underline the claim of leadership in the respective segment in interaction with the specific suspension. Apart from that, the company also develops its own sports cars. As the first vehicle to be fully developed by Mercedes-AMG, the SLS AMG is proof of the competence and passion that exist at the company in Affalterbach. And last year, AMG was also responsible for bringing the world’s most powerful electric super sports car to market, the SLS AMG coupe Electric Drive. The all-electric SLS AMG combines innovations in material combination of aluminium and CRP (carbon-fibre-reinforced plastic) and the newly developed powerful battery and inherits an outstanding driving dynamic thanks to AMG Torque Dynamics. In addition, the lightweight construction strategy known as AMG Lightweight Performance was applied throughout the development of the electric SLS AMG and the new S-Class. The new S 63 AMG weighs up to 100 kilograms less than its predecessor. From a two-man company to a high-performance brand AMG (Aufrecht Melcher Großaspach) was founded in 1967 by Hans Werner Aufrecht and Erhard Melcher, and from the very outset achieved numerous successes in the field of motorsport. Today, the former two-man company employs a workforce of more than 1,200 at its plant in Affalterbach, and over the past 47 years has become the technological spearhead and a wholly-owned subsidiary of Daimler AG. The AMG brand promise of ‘Driving Performance’ stands for state-of-the-art technology and pure driving excitement in all four business divisions. Alongside the development of high-performance vehicles, AMG’s second business division, Sport Packages & Models, provides an entry into the world of AMG. AMG’s performance specialists were closely involved in the development of the A 250 Sport and CLA 250 Sport. The sport models “engineered by AMG” were in high demand in 2013 as well and were handed over to more than 12,000 customers. Special customer specifications are carried out in the third business division, the AMG Performance Studio, where individualised AMG vehicles are developed and produced in strictly limited editions. The fourth business division, Driving Academy & Motorsports, has also achieved considerable success. Last year, the AMG Driving Academy hosted over 11,000 participants worldwide and was able to enhance its customer offering with new events in the United Arab Emirates and Poland. And of course the performance brand has remained true to its motor racing roots, chalking up impressive wins on international circuits with the SLS AMG GT3.

[RDE46M3]

Wow... This is a pretty intense debate. Wanted to share a few points that may have not have been touched on, as we nearly bought the CLA before ordering our M235i.

- Price - The CLA45 AMG is significantly more expensive than the M235i when configured with similar options. Roughly 10k more expensive in our experience. I'm not suggesting 10k is a huge sum of money, but if you're into thrift, this is a bargain.

- Performance - Those unfamiliar with the Burger Motorsports JB4: Very soon a $529 piece of equipment will be available to add significantly more horsepower (60-80hp) to the M235i. Its completely plug & play, and takes about 30 minutes to install. With the CLA running 27psi, I'd be interested to see how easily (or cost effectively) this engine can be modified to exceed its factory output.

-The CLA is a loud statement, as is a Mercedes Benz in general. As a BMW driver, you get some of the same stigma, but not to the same extent. Our relatives are working class, focused on "reasonably priced cars" because they have to be. The 235 is aggressive enough, without being too flashy in an obnoxious way. Just because you have the means, doesn't necessarily mean its wise to buy the flashiest car you can. For this reason, the subtle aggressiveness of the BMWs are more popular with a large segment of the market. Clearly its not all doom and gloom at BMW's head office.

[Esteban15]

when you modify...what happens to your BMW warranty..and if it is a leased you maybe be facing questions when you return? would like feedback here.

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by Esteban15

when you modify...what happens to your BMW warranty..and if it is a leased you maybe be facing questions when you return? would like feedback here.

if it's plug&play you just take it out... that's what i heard

[Esteban15]

I priced the two..and the Mercedes doesnt' have the power..and is front wheel drive..and Edmunds states the sound of the 4 cylinder engine is too loud...its four to five thousand more...with the smaller engine...I am not interested in impressing my neighbors with a Mercedes..which they all have and probably lease...I want the BMW..the ultimate driving machine.. BMW...All the Way...

[Esteban15]

that's very interesting the plug and play..would like to get some input from those that have installed it...thanks for the quick update..appreciate your input..

[italia]

Originally Posted by Esteban15

when you modify...what happens to your BMW warranty..and if it is a leased you maybe be facing questions when you return? would like feedback here.

Consumer warranty protection is provided under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. In general, a car manufacturer can deny a warranty claim if they believe the repair/damage/problem was the result of something the owner did (modification) or failed to do (proper maintenance). If your warranty claim is denied and you believe it had nothing to do with what you did or did not do, it would be up to your to seek remedy using your own legal resources and the backing of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. You have to fight the claim denial.

So, if your air conditioning compressor dies, it is highly unlikely that a car manufacturer would try to claim that your engine software/ECU modification led to the problem. However if there is an internal engine problem that occurs, the manufacturer may feel justified in denying the claim.

Manufacturers generally don't want the legal expense of fighting a warranty claim denial unless they have had strong belief that in that State, they are likely to prevail. Some States are very pro-consumer.

In my experience, modifications such as Cat-back exhausts are not going to be fought by car manufacturers, but an internally damaged engine that was "tuned" offers more risk of claim denial.

Wiki: Magnuson-Moss - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuso...s_Warranty_Act

Actual text of law: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/chapter-50

[Esteban15]

thanks for sharing

[Red Bread]

No front wheel drive car looks great, CLA included. If it's a Rolex, a 2er must be a PP or a VC. The new C Class may look the part, but the ugly little CLA is not impressive, style wise.

[Lucky13]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

Next to a M235i the CLA certainly looks like a Rolex... and hey, I don't even wear a watch, go figure!

But independently of what my opinion is the fact is the CLA is selling like hot-cakes... either BMW take a different path and go back to their roots or they will loose this game.

This is the game which Mercedes-Benz got known for, they do it for ages... luxury looking, fast cars with the AMG sports touch here and there, only this time they brought it to a younger audience normally associated with driving thrills.

And that's precisely where the BMW of yore would feel the gap... but instead they've decided they want to play Mercedes game, probably by looking at what Audi as accomplished in the last decade, with bigger, heavier, faster and ultimately less thrilling cars.

Except that Audi already had the Quattro technology - that's what gave Audi recognition in the first place - and Mercedes is building its image around the 4Matic moniker for some time now with undeniable success... so, what about BMW?!

Do BMW really think they can keep on building heavier and increasingly powerful/torquier cars only based on a RWD layout without transforming themselves into what Mercedes do best?!

Won't BMW also have to start seriously marketing their 4-wheel drive technology for their M line?! Isn't that already happening?! So, what differentiates them?!

Or, on the other hand, could BMW start seriously invest on lightweight technologies and small, less powerful truly fuel-efficient engines and be, once and for all, faithful to their roots of the now missed genuine RWD only driving thrills?!

You see, that's the reason why the 1M, despite of all its inherent shortcomings namely the heavy weight, was such a winner... it was the best they could bring in resemblance to their past, in a truly distinctive way from the competition. There's nothing quite like it...

You are totally incoherent. Just because you say something doesn't make it true. Every car manufacturer in the world has increased the size of their cars. Look at the Camry, Civic, Accord or basically any car that's been on the market a while and they are all growing in size and weight. This includes Audi, Lexus, Mercedes and BMW and they combat this by introducing new entry level cars. Go back to the Mercedes board and quit trolling.

[italia]

Originally Posted by Lucky13

Every car manufacturer in the world has increased the size of their cars.

True. And this is one of the greatest disappointments I have with new cars. Even Mini is increasing the size of the basic Mini Hardtop. You can still find 2013 Mini GP2 (2557 lbs.) sitting on dealer lots, but it's one of the few cars under 2700 lbs. The coil-overs on the GP2 evidently do mitigate the understeer somewhat.

The Fiat Abarth 500 is still underpowered right now, and the Lotus Exige has limited dealers.

The Alfa Romeo 4c is supposed to come in under 2000 lbs. in US spec, but expected to be a bit pricey - http://www.alfaromeo.com/com/#/technology/4c/data-sheet

I remember how nimble my '88 M3 felt at 2750 lbs. Miss that car.

[RDE46M3]

Originally Posted by Esteban15

when you modify...what happens to your BMW warranty..and if it is a leased you maybe be facing questions when you return? would like feedback here.

The JB4 is completely plug and play. The dealership won't even know that it was installed.

Pursuant to the release of aftermarket "chipping" or software modifications like the JB4, BMW began offering software performance upgrades right from the dealer. I could be wrong, but I believe the 335i and 135i were offered these "Performance Power Kits". More boost, different fuel map, and more horsepower. I believe oil coolers and a few other parts were included, but I'm not entirely sure.

Either way, I'm confident the motor has plenty of tuning potential beyond its factory output.

[Esteban15]

the M235i..goes zero to 4.8 in sixty seconds with automatic I think? not sure why I would need the upgrade going from one stop sign to another in city traffic..and on the freeways once your at 81 speed your in ticket range.

[Esteban15]

and then what about less miles per gallon and your insurance company discovering the upgrade with all those now installed track your vehicle speed hidden chips I heard

[RDE46M3]

Originally Posted by Esteban15

the M235i..goes zero to 4.8 in sixty seconds with automatic I think? not sure why I would need the upgrade going from one stop sign to another in city traffic..and on the freeways once your at 81 speed your in ticket range.

Wow... There are SO many things wrong with this sentence.

First off, if you're only going from one stop sign to another, and don't care about the speed of a vehicle... Buy a Prius, its exceptional on gas.

[Cosa Nostra]

Here's my 2 cents... great job Jason in comparing the two cars and, yes, it is a fair comparison. Design wise they both look great but that's where the similarities end. Sure the CLA is a tad faster, but it is only a 4-banger (will never match the balance and feel of the i6), and it costs a lot more. As Jim Kenzie has been quoted, "the CLA is fast but just doesn't have the same torque feel as a comparable i6/v8, etc.". They are both great cars, but I'll take the M235i thank you very much.

[prolif1k]

Originally Posted by Esteban15

and then what about less miles per gallon and your insurance company discovering the upgrade with all those now installed track your vehicle speed hidden chips I heard

What the heck are you talking about?

[templarklimek]

I just saw one in black today. A very hot looking little 4 door IMHO. Maybe some folks will compare them but I wouldn't cross shop them as it a 4 door and automatic only. AMG "tarts" up their models with more flair than BMW but the 2 series has a more timeless clean design. The women driving it by the look of her didn't care a hoot about it's performance. It was a AMG Mercedes thus fulfilling her need to be "seen". Sad for the car really.

Interior isn't better than 2 series but the seats are REALLY awesome. BMW needs to offer even as an option some kind of "recaro" looking seats. The M4 seats look great though. I may consider a seat upgrade myself.

As for modibility, the 235M wins hands down. The N55 already has plenty of options. So with tune/intake/exhaust and maybe downpipes 400 hp is a doable number. I'll have the exhaust chopped resonator back and replaced with strait pipes most likely. Maybe a small race muffler like on my M6.

The 2 will have legs over time. I think the aftermarket will come up with plenty for this car. Carbon fiber trunks, suspension, splitters etc.