[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by schybrid

Elaborate

Dont get me wrong i have nothing against AWD. My favorite car is a GTR ( AWD) but there is something about the BMW being AWD , it just does not feel like a BMW.
Test drive both and you might understand what i mean.

[kdog26372]

Originally Posted by olaosunt

Hey Boss,
I compared the time slip of the all wheel drive car that just ran a 12.25@109 in the 1/4 vs. mine which ran 11.9@114. Both cars are auto.

Similar mods but I probably make more power based on trap speed but weight(from AWD) may also be a factor. I ran E35 vs. his 93.

He was on the stock tires and I was on drag radials.
His 60ft was 1.6 vs. my 1.7

330ft and 1/8 are almost identical @4.9 and 7.6.

His 1/8th trap was 88 mph vs.. my 91 mph
He picked up 21 mph vs. my 23 mph on the back half.

RWD+sticky tires>/= AWD

Only reason to get the all wheel drive is if you need it for snow . I can tell you mine sucks in the snow even with bilzzacks compared to my Audi S4

Come on, this is guy isn't going to drive around town with drag slicks on and neither do you. He wants an M235i and wants to know which is quicker 0-60. Pretty simple, the xdrive will be with stock tires and if tuned even more so as it will put the power to the ground.

Back to original poster, car comes standard with 225's all around on xdrive version, it's a free option to add non-runflat staggered summer setup. I just bought mine, so I know this for a fact at least in Chicago, just need to verify the dealer checks the correct box when you buy. There was not a single AWD M235i on any dealer lots in the country that had PSS staggered non-run flats when I bought mine new, that's why I had to build mine.

If you want stick shift, you have to get RWD. If like the feeling of the back end kicking out around turns and powering through it get RWD. If you will put around town when it drizzles out then get RWD. If you like racing at high speeds on the highway then RWD is for you as it will be better up top. If you will be taking your car to the track then RWD will most likely be the better option and yield better track times. If you drive mostly under 100 mph and you want idiot proof low to flat 4's 0-60 get AWD and add a stage 1 tune and call it a day. When you go to dealer take off $300 tune which takes 5 minutes. Will be great in rain or shine. Plus the RWD option doesn't even have LSD which is weak. I had a tuned 135i that was RWD and the electronic LSD would always cut in even in Sport mode going around corners fast and accelerating from a stop. Maybe M235i is less intrusive, but I thought it sucked on the 135i and with AWD rarely if ever get traction control kicking in.

Here's a final thought. Take what I say and others with a grain of salt and go test drive both and be your own judge. I've had both RWD and AWD and whether it snowed here are not I'd get AWD for the simple fact I always tune my cars and I hate spinning out at stoplights, spinning out in the light rain and always intruding traction control; which all occurred with my tuned 135i w/RWD. Others obviously feel RWD is the way to go for how they drive. Can't go wrong either way, you'll love whatever car you choose.

[Turbo_435i]

Originally Posted by kdog26372

Come on, this is guy isn't going to drive around town with drag slicks on and neither do you. He wants an M235i and wants to know which is quicker 0-60. Pretty simple, the xdrive will be with stock tires and if tuned even more so as it will put the power to the ground.

Back to original poster, car comes standard with 225's all around on xdrive version, it's a free option to add non-runflat staggered summer setup. I just bought mine, so I know this for a fact at least in Chicago, just need to verify the dealer checks the correct box when you buy. There was not a single AWD M235i on any dealer lots in the country that had PSS staggered non-run flats when I bought mine new, that's why I had to build mine.

If you want stick shift, you have to get RWD. If like the feeling of the back end kicking out around turns and powering through it get RWD. If you will put around town when it drizzles out then get RWD. If you like racing at high speeds on the highway then RWD is for you as it will be better up top. If you will be taking your car to the track then RWD will most likely be the better option and yield better track times. If you drive mostly under 100 mph and you want idiot proof low to flat 4's 0-60 get AWD and add a stage 1 tune and call it a day. When you go to dealer take off $300 tune which takes 5 minutes. Will be great in rain or shine. Plus the RWD option doesn't even have LSD which is weak. I had a tuned 135i that was RWD and the electronic LSD would always cut in even in Sport mode going around corners fast and accelerating from a stop. Maybe M235i is less intrusive, but I thought it sucked on the 135i and with AWD rarely if ever get traction control kicking in.

Here's a final thought. Take what I say and others with a grain of salt and go test drive both and be your own judge. I've had both RWD and AWD and whether it snowed here are not I'd get AWD for the simple fact I always tune my cars and I hate spinning out at stoplights, spinning out in the light rain and always intruding traction control; which all occurred with my tuned 135i w/RWD. Others obviously feel RWD is the way to go for how they drive. Can't go wrong either way, you'll love whatever car you choose.

BOOOOM!!!!

you couldnt have said ot any better!!

Yeah, when I was younger, i wanted a highway beast..... 60-140mph runs etx...
Now im a lil older, i love the acceleration from 0-60 or 20-70 etx..

I still love the ol highway romp every now and then...... But dont like the fact that 130 mph ticket can really screw someone up.....

You hit the nail on the head..... I'd prefer the qwk no brainer acceleration, and car will still be pretty damn qwk during reg acceleration / higway speeds with a stage 1 tune.

But like everyones saying, i really need to drive the awd and "feel" the actual difference , if it can be felt at all?!???

Gonna be hard to find an awd m235 in miami to test drive, lol.


Btw..... It only took a 5 min test drive in the rwd m235i to know what my next car was going to be

[kdog26372]

Originally Posted by schybrid

BOOOOM!!!!

you couldnt have said ot any better!!

Yeah, when I was younger, i wanted a highway beast..... 60-140mph runs etx...
Now im a lil older, i love the acceleration from 0-60 or 20-70 etx..

I still love the ol highway romp every now and then...... But dont like the fact that 130 mph ticket can really screw someone up.....

You hit the nail on the head..... I'd prefer the qwk no brainer acceleration, and car will still be pretty damn qwk during reg acceleration / higway speeds with a stage 1 tune.

But like everyones saying, i really need to drive the awd and "feel" the actual difference , if it can be felt at all?!???

Gonna be hard to find an awd m235 in miami to test drive, lol.


Btw..... It only took a 5 min test drive in the rwd m235i to know what my next car was going to be

You won't notice a .2 second 0-60 advantage of the AWD over RWD car in stock form on a sunny day, they're both about equally quick. Once you tune them or when rain comes that's when the RWD car will drive you nuts from stop light to stop light. The added ~50 HP/Torque a stage 1 gives doesn't sound like much, but the car is properly balanced power wise stock and less so for RWD cars once that power is added and if you mash the peddle you will sit and spin quite a bit. I gun it and go, no drama just quick as hell.

Enjoy your search down south I'd imagine they are few and far between.

[dalrx]

How about staggered vs square tire setup. I just went from p7 all season to square pss all around. What is advantage of staggered for my pss setup? I notice way better grip and go and cornering now vs the p7s.

[shark715]

Originally Posted by dalrx

How about staggered vs square tire setup. I just went from p7 all season to square pss all around. What is advantage of staggered for my pss setup? I notice way better grip and go and cornering now vs the p7s.

It looks good :-)

[Turbo_435i]

Originally Posted by kdog26372

You won't notice a .2 second 0-60 advantage of the AWD over RWD car in stock form on a sunny day, they're both about equally quick. Once you tune them or when rain comes that's when the RWD car will drive you nuts from stop light to stop light. The added ~50 HP/Torque a stage 1 gives doesn't sound like much, but the car is properly balanced power wise stock and less so for RWD cars once that power is added and if you mash the peddle you will sit and spin quite a bit. I gun it and go, no drama just quick as hell.

Enjoy your search down south I'd imagine they are few and far between.

Exactly..... Adding 50+hp and 50+ trque to either the RWD or AWD will be fun as hell, BUT, like you said, the awd will hook better and get power to the ground vs rwd which will spin more often(which is fun, dont get me wrong).... But id prefer the G forces vs spinning....

[Steven1077]

I’ve always felt the x-drives I've driven felt heavy compared to the rwd versions, but that’s to be expected as they weigh a bit more, they also spin all 4 wheels at times even at silly speeds making it no fun to steer in damp conditions, a 4 wheel slide is not much fun lol

[moldcad]

Originally Posted by Steven1077

a 4 wheel slide is not much fun lol

Oh - but to the contrary: a full 4-wheel slide (Scandinavian style) provides the greatest fun of all kinds of slides, but admittedly it requires lots of speed and power - and hence the driver's skill.



My previous F10 528xi BMW was just not powerful enough to try that, but my Golf R is perfect for this kind of slides, and the adrenaline rush is much greater than from those more common drifting-kind of slides I can get from my M235i so easily (and with LSD, they are even more fun, too)...

PS. Even with underpowered 528xi a 4-wheel (side) slide is of course also possible, thanks to (or should I say: because of) its weight and associated inertia. I remember a rather scary experience on my very first trip in my 528xi, when I gradually got so much sense of safety thanks to the xDrive and how it held the car on fast curves (this was my first AWD car ever in my 44 years of driving experience), that - flooring it on one of those slightly uphill motorway ramps - I managed (unintentionally, of course) to merge the dense traffic on the motorways with the car moving laterally in the 4-wheel slide - in addition to some 150 kmh forward movement... I still remember that sense of horror when my car (running on the outside lane through which I merged in) was slowly closing the distance to one of those huge TIR lorries, travelling on the neighboring lane (remember the scene from "The Arrangement" movie with Kirk Douglas driving his red spider under such a monster?)... The only thing (apart from my AWD inexperience then) that sorta explains, but not excuses me from that obvious driver error, was winter tires on half-wet asphalt - but it really was scary and I learnt my lesson the hard way. I was lucky no bad thing happened then!

Later on after I bought the Golf R, the first thing I did after the very minimalistic break-in period was taking it to the track and trying to recreate that scenario - but in spite of the much higher power-to-mass ratio, the car held like it was on rails! Sure - it was September with some 20 C ambient temperature, and I had my performance summer tires on the car - but considering the speed I really was full of admiration on how the car held to the asphalt... It was only several months later when some snow appeared that I was able to easily initiate a full lateral, 4-wheel slide using the full 300 hp of this marvelous little car...

Now that I also have the M235i with LSD it's so easy to drift - you don't even need to set the car on Sport+ to do that; Comfort is perfectly enough on tight corners - and the LSD is helping much in that you can drift out of the curve even before the DSC nanny notices and cuts the power. Brilliant (although at the same time, not a very positive fact about the Michelin PSSs - I would think they should hold better)!

So, if I was to advice to the OP, I'd say that unless you are in a super-snowy area, it's a much more rewarding way of spending your spare cash by installing LSD in the RWD car instead of buying the xDrive version.

[den525]

There's no argument unless you need it for the snow? Rwd all the way. Didn't give it a single thought getting awd.

There's a lack of good rwd already...

[moldcad]

Originally Posted by den525

T
There's a lack of good rwd already...

^^^ +1 on this; it was the number one reason for me to actually replace the 528xi with the RWD M235i+LSD. A few years from now and our only choices will be either downsized FWD cars, or the expensive few RWD ones that I could never afford

[Turbo_435i]

Ok. So basically GTR's, lambos, porsches, EVO's etx that are awd are for snow & safety huh ?

[moldcad]

No, they are awd for an average joe the driver to be able to convey all this power to the road (but mainly for him to be safer, and you know this too).

Ever though why F1 cars are NOT awd?

[Turbo_435i]

Originally Posted by moldcad

No, they are awd for an average joe the driver to be able to convey all this power to the road (but mainly for him to be safer, and you know this too).

Ever though why F1 cars are NOT awd?

Ever wonder why GTR's at drag strip beat cars with more hp that are rwd ?

[Turbo_435i]

I found a prevoius members post on the rwd vs awd topic.... Interesting....

Quoted""""I'm trying to figure out whether or not to order Xdrive, and today I had the opportunity to drive two 235's back to back...one Xdrive and the other RWD. I know the dealer well, and they let me take each car out without a salesperson, so I did not hesitate to push each car hard :-) Both cars had staggered Pilot Super Sports, and it was about 45 degrees here.

To give some perspective let me say that while I'm not a professional racer nor do I have extensive track experience, but I own a Porsche 996 and previously owned other sports cars including a Lotus Elise, so I'm reasonably acquainted with handling characteristics.

The extra weight of the Xdrive is noticeable, but only when you push the car very hard on entrance and exit ramps. I don't think an average driver would ever notice the extra weight, even if they were looking for it.

When pushed VERY hard, the Xdrive car had somewhat more tendency toward initial understeer. When I say "pushed the car hard", I do mean to or beyond the point that most passengers would likely be concerned for their safety.

Finally, it was far easier to achieve faster flat out acceleration from a standing stop with Xdrive. Without the LSD it was not difficult to overwhelm the rear tires on the RWD car with all the torque...of course traction would have been better with these tires had the weather been 30 or 40 degrees warmer """quoted"""""

[moldcad]

Originally Posted by schybrid

Ever wonder why GTR's at drag strip beat cars with more hp that are rwd ?

Never, as it is obvious

[Zooks527]

Originally Posted by moldcad

Ever though why F1 cars are NOT awd?

Can't speak to F1, other than to note that they're running in a fairly restricted regime. You don't see a lot of street cars that have enough downforce to hold a 5g arc.

There must be some advantage though, or else the bans on AWD in Super Touring, Trans Am, and Le Mans class racing wouldn't be necessary.

[SDKevin]

It sounds as though you have already made your decision and are looking for people to agree with you.

[shark715]

Originally Posted by schybrid

I found a prevoius members post on the rwd vs awd topic.... Interesting....

Quoted""""I'm trying to figure out whether or not to order Xdrive, and today I had the opportunity to drive two 235's back to back...one Xdrive and the other RWD. I know the dealer well, and they let me take each car out without a salesperson, so I did not hesitate to push each car hard :-) Both cars had staggered Pilot Super Sports, and it was about 45 degrees here.

To give some perspective let me say that while I'm not a professional racer nor do I have extensive track experience, but I own a Porsche 996 and previously owned other sports cars including a Lotus Elise, so I'm reasonably acquainted with handling characteristics.

The extra weight of the Xdrive is noticeable, but only when you push the car very hard on entrance and exit ramps. I don't think an average driver would ever notice the extra weight, even if they were looking for it.

When pushed VERY hard, the Xdrive car had somewhat more tendency toward initial understeer. When I say "pushed the car hard", I do mean to or beyond the point that most passengers would likely be concerned for their safety.

Finally, it was far easier to achieve faster flat out acceleration from a standing stop with Xdrive. Without the LSD it was not difficult to overwhelm the rear tires on the RWD car with all the torque...of course traction would have been better with these tires had the weather been 30 or 40 degrees warmer """quoted"""""

That happens to be my post you quoted. Sure, I completely get that you can have some fun with RWD that you can't with AWD cars. MY SLK55 can be a blast (and a handful) when I turn off the traction control. The limiting factor for my 0-60 times is simply traction.

But having fun and winning an all out race are two very different things. The reason F1 cars don't have all wheel drive is simply that the rules don't allow it. If it were allowed, you can be sure every team would have it as it's a huge advantage on the race track because of the vastly superior traction. When Audi started using Quattro in their rally cars decades ago, their cars so dominated everything else that AWD was banned for a time. In fact, Audi used the fact that Quattro created an "unfair advantage" in their marketing efforts toward consumers.

[moldcad]

Originally Posted by schybrid

Ever wonder why GTR's at drag strip beat cars with more hp that are rwd ?

OK, even though - as someone else noticed - you seem to already have made your decision to get xDrive, lets reverse it and ask a question like this:

- wouldn't it be rewarding for you and your driving skills self-assessment if you started to beat AWD cars with your RWD one? Now, isn't that a challenge?

[Turbo_435i]

Originally Posted by moldcad

OK, even though - as someone else noticed - you seem to already have made your decision to get xDrive, lets reverse it and ask a question like this:

- wouldn't it be rewarding for you and your driving skills self-assessment if you started to beat AWD cars with your RWD one? Now, isn't that a challenge?

Not really... Ive had numerous rwd cars and ive been challenged enough with spinning tires.

Ive made up my mind.. Im getting the xdrive, and it will be better all the time vs rwd

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by kdog26372

Come on, this is guy isn't going to drive around town with drag slicks on and neither do you. He wants an M235i and wants to know which is quicker 0-60. Pretty simple, the xdrive will be with stock tires and if tuned even more so as it will put the power to the ground.

Back to original poster, car comes standard with 225's all around on xdrive version, it's a free option to add non-runflat staggered summer setup. I just bought mine, so I know this for a fact at least in Chicago, just need to verify the dealer checks the correct box when you buy. There was not a single AWD M235i on any dealer lots in the country that had PSS staggered non-run flats when I bought mine new, that's why I had to build mine.

If you want stick shift, you have to get RWD. If like the feeling of the back end kicking out around turns and powering through it get RWD. If you will put around town when it drizzles out then get RWD. If you like racing at high speeds on the highway then RWD is for you as it will be better up top. If you will be taking your car to the track then RWD will most likely be the better option and yield better track times. If you drive mostly under 100 mph and you want idiot proof low to flat 4's 0-60 get AWD and add a stage 1 tune and call it a day. When you go to dealer take off $300 tune which takes 5 minutes. Will be great in rain or shine. Plus the RWD option doesn't even have LSD which is weak. I had a tuned 135i that was RWD and the electronic LSD would always cut in even in Sport mode going around corners fast and accelerating from a stop. Maybe M235i is less intrusive, but I thought it sucked on the 135i and with AWD rarely if ever get traction control kicking in.

Here's a final thought. Take what I say and others with a grain of salt and go test drive both and be your own judge. I've had both RWD and AWD and whether it snowed here are not I'd get AWD for the simple fact I always tune my cars and I hate spinning out at stoplights, spinning out in the light rain and always intruding traction control; which all occurred with my tuned 135i w/RWD. Others obviously feel RWD is the way to go for how they drive. Can't go wrong either way, you'll love whatever car you choose.

btw the eDiff (electronica LSD) only comes on with DTC fully OFF and Sport mode != DTC OFF