[aerostar]

Ah, okay I just looked that up.

I want to go with a 17" rim and I don't think I can get anything but the LM

Tirerack doesn't have the size for the WS blizzaks

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by aerostar

Ah, okay I just looked that up.

I want to go with a 17" rim and I don't think I can get anything but the LM

Tirerack doesn't have the size for the WS blizzaks

You should call them, when I got mine I was dead set on the 17" BBS SR rims and they had a few different Blizzak options available to me.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by aerostar

Ah, okay I just looked that up.

I want to go with a 17" rim and I don't think I can get anything but the LM

Tirerack doesn't have the size for the WS blizzaks

Originally Posted by aerostar

I thought the LM series are the nicer ones...

They're more expensive at least.

Originally Posted by Zooks527

The LM series are "performance" winters, with a quieter, less aggressive tread that won't clear snow nearly as well as the WS series. Think of the LM series as using the tread pattern from an all-season tire and the compound from a true winter tire.

"Nicer" depends on your preference, independent of the price. Some here reject the WS as they are unwilling to tolerate the softer tire during the winter even for the sake of the excellent snow/ice capability. LM is the essence of a compromise product, attempting, as Zooks says, to be the best of both worlds for winter and performance, but winding up being great at neither. The WS is a focussed product, attempting to approximate the capability of studded snow tires as best they can, but without studs. There are clearly two personal strategies here, but I prefer to accept some softness during the winter for the best capability rather than buy, maintain, and carry around AWD all year long. The other approach is certainly a valid point of view, however.

WS80 certainly do exist in 17" for our cars. You want 215/50-17. I don't see them on tirerack.com for some reason, but on the Bridgestone website, it shows they still produce that size. 215 is more helpful in winter than our OE size, as the treadwidth is narrower, cutting through snow better. I mounted mine on 17x7.5 Anzio Light wheels, which clear the MSport caliper.

[moldcad]

To those trumping the advantages of AWD over RWD or the other way around - a question based on my scary experience yesterday: I was returning home from one of those long and exhausting business trips of mine, and was driving fast and aggressively in order to finally get home and rest. I was overtaking several slower vehicles on a single lane, narrow b-road with surface wet after a storm, when I noticed that car coming from the opposite direction and decided to retreat - I had to brake rather hard or I would rear-end a car going my direction which I was just starting to pass. Anyway - the wet surface caused the rear wheels of my car to lose grip and I really had to use all my abilities to counteract with the steering wheel (use the throttle I couldn't as the car mentioned was actually 1-2 meters in front of me - or even less for a moment)... Scary, eh?

Now the promised question: would this kind of losing directional stability possible if my RWD car was xDrive?

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by moldcad

To those trumping the advantages of AWD over RWD or the other way around - a question based on my scary experience yesterday: I was returning home from one of those long and exhausting business trips of mine, and was driving fast and aggressively in order to finally get home and rest. I was overtaking several slower vehicles on a single lane, narrow b-road with surface wet after a storm, when I noticed that car coming from the opposite direction and decided to retreat - I had to brake rather hard or I would rear-end a car going my direction which I was just starting to pass. Anyway - the wet surface caused the rear wheels of my car to lose grip and I really had to use all my abilities to counteract with the steering wheel (use the throttle I couldn't as the car mentioned was actually 1-2 meters in front of me - or even less for a moment)... Scary, eh?

Now the promised question: would this kind of losing directional stability possible if my RWD car was xDrive?

Yes. You were braking, so tire traction, speed, and road surface were the dominant issues. While braking, the potential to accelerate four vs two wheels is irrelevant.

[moldcad]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Yes. You were braking, so tire traction, speed, and road surface were the dominant issues. While braking, the potential to accelerate four vs two wheels is irrelevant.

You won.

[moldcad]

I have chosen my own, fresh experience to make a point: AWD can only correct instability while accelerating (even if only slightly). At the same time, most accidents due to grip and thus stability loss happen while braking! My own example I described was only one of very many kinds of real-life situation that can occur - and one should remember that even if the car in front of me didn't exclude the use of throttle, most drivers in my situation would press it anyway - simply because they would PANIC. By the same logic, even if the original reason of stability loss is reckless cornering at WOT with DSC off by an under-skilled driver - when he feels the rear start to misbehave he would almost always BRAKE. Out of the PANIC. AWD cannot help when the car is braking, period.

This is why - when changing from 528xi to M235i - I passed on xDrive and chose LSD instead. LSD makes steering by throttle much more efficient (and fun).

Of course I'm not trying to talk out of AWD those who live in the heavy snow/long winters parts of the world; just my $ 0.02 on whether or not driving and AWD is safer by definition. Well - as my scary incident clearly showed - it doesn't.

[shark715]

Originally Posted by moldcad

To those trumping the advantages of AWD over RWD or the other way around - a question based on my scary experience yesterday: I was returning home from one of those long and exhausting business trips of mine, and was driving fast and aggressively in order to finally get home and rest. I was overtaking several slower vehicles on a single lane, narrow b-road with surface wet after a storm, when I noticed that car coming from the opposite direction and decided to retreat - I had to brake rather hard or I would rear-end a car going my direction which I was just starting to pass. Anyway - the wet surface caused the rear wheels of my car to lose grip and I really had to use all my abilities to counteract with the steering wheel (use the throttle I couldn't as the car mentioned was actually 1-2 meters in front of me - or even less for a moment)... Scary, eh?

Now the promised question: would this kind of losing directional stability possible if my RWD car was xDrive?

Although I have a 235 xdrive on order, based on your description I would say having xdrive or not would be irrelevant for the situation you are describing.

[Ello]

Hey all. I bought the XDrive and it's wonderful... Been driving it all summer. Everything about this car is just about perfect but...

But I really miss manual transmission.

Even though I'm here in Vermont, I'm seriously considering trading my M235xi XDrive in for an identical M235i RWD just because there's nothing like a manual in a little car like this!

There's a video online with an M4 doing a toe pull with an AWD Toyota truck in snow and ice, both in snow tires. The Toyota wins. Barely.

Check it out:

The guys are kind of tools, but it's pretty convincing that RWD and snow tires grip. Of course, M4 has LSD.

What do you think? Am I crazy?

It is snowy as hell here, with hills. And mud. And rain!

Which come to think of it, sounds kinda fun in a RWD manual.

[midwest 340xi 6sp]

get some good snows (performance snows are my preference) aNd you're good to go.

The real problem your facing is trading in an almost new car. Be prepared to bend over - big time.

Originally Posted by Ello

Hey all. I bought the XDrive and it's wonderful... Been driving it all summer. Everything about this car is just about perfect but...

But I really miss manual transmission.

Even though I'm here in Vermont, I'm seriously considering trading my M235xi XDrive in for an identical M235i RWD just because there's nothing like a manual in a little car like this!

There's a video online with an M4 doing a toe pull with an AWD Toyota truck in snow and ice, both in snow tires. The Toyota wins. Barely.

Check it out:

The guys are kind of tools, but it's pretty convincing that RWD and snow tires grip. Of course, M4 has LSD.

What do you think? Am I crazy?

It is snowy as hell here, with hills. And mud. And rain!

Which come to think of it, sounds kinda fun in a RWD manual.

[Ello]

Actually, figure I'll find a used one and trade if I can!

[shark715]

Originally Posted by Ello

Hey all. I bought the XDrive and it's wonderful... Been driving it all summer. Everything about this car is just about perfect but...

But I really miss manual transmission.

Even though I'm here in Vermont, I'm seriously considering trading my M235xi XDrive in for an identical M235i RWD just because there's nothing like a manual in a little car like this!

What do you think? Am I crazy?

It is snowy as hell here, with hills. And mud. And rain!

Which come to think of it, sounds kinda fun in a RWD manual.

I hear you, but I can tell you the reason we ordered xdrive is because of our ski trips to Vermont. Yeah, good winter tires, an LSD, and some weight in the trunk will get you through most situations, but you know from living there (and from the way describe it, it sounds like you do your fair share of driving in the mountains and on unpaved roads) that eventually you will get stuck where an AWD car with the same winter tires would have gotten you where you are going. There's a reason that Vermont has the most Subarus per capita of any state by far! You live there, and it's easy to tell from you post that you know why!

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by shark715

There's a reason that Vermont has the most Subarus per capita of any state by far! You live there, and it's easy to tell from you post that you know why!

I like my 2 so much, I rethought my strategy to keep it in better shape longer (along with the seven year warranty I bought), so I'm following in the "tiretracks" of those Vermont folks with an All Wheel Drive/Snowflake tire Subaru Crosstrek for winter driving (and short trips or other "dirty work" to be done the rest of the year), while having the BMW in its historic RWD roots configuration. I am concerned that future BMWs this size may be FWD, automatic-only, or both.

[midwest 340xi 6sp]

Bravo!

Love the strategy....I've owned a # of Outbacks and Legacy's over the years...Great cars!

Originally Posted by Sportstick

I like my 2 so much, I rethought my strategy to keep it in better shape longer (along with the seven year warranty I bought), so I'm following in the "tiretracks" of those Vermont folks with an All Wheel Drive/Snowflake tire Subaru Crosstrek for winter driving (and short trips or other "dirty work" to be done the rest of the year), while having the BMW in its historic RWD roots configuration. I am concerned that future BMWs this size may be FWD, automatic-only, or both.

[shark715]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

I like my 2 so much, I rethought my strategy to keep it in better shape longer (along with the seven year warranty I bought), so I'm following in the "tiretracks" of those Vermont folks with an All Wheel Drive/Snowflake tire Subaru Crosstrek for winter driving (and short trips or other "dirty work" to be done the rest of the year), while having the BMW in its historic RWD roots configuration. I am concerned that future BMWs this size may be FWD, automatic-only, or both.

Yep, a good strategy. That's why I still have my old Pathfinder that has 160k miles on it...it's my "beater" car.

[Sportstick]

For just about exactly 50% of the price of the 2 Series, it is quite an admirable vehicle for its segment. And, the sound system sounds better, it includes bluetooth, Pandora, streams my Sirius app from my phone (!!), heated seats and wipers, remote start, full-time symmetrical all wheel drive, and I have it on Bridgestone AT KO2....wait a second......is it also too nice to subject to winter???.....OMG!

[CE750Jockey]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

For just about exactly 50% of the price of the 2 Series, it is quite an admirable vehicle for its segment. And, the sound system sounds better, it includes bluetooth, Pandora, streams my Sirius app from my phone (!!), heated seats and wipers, remote start, full-time symmetrical all wheel drive, and I have it on Bridgestone AT KO2....wait a second......is it also too nice to subject to winter???.....OMG!

Good lord, Stick. What is that awful Metamucil Orange wildebeest doing in the same picture as your 2er?!!

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by CE750Jockey

Good lord, Stick. What is that awful Metamucil Orange wildebeest doing in the same picture as your 2er?!!

Helping it live a longer life! A noble profession!

[CE750Jockey]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Helping it live a longer life! A noble profession!

It is neither noble or virtuous to prolong one's suffering. Put it out of our misery.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by CE750Jockey

It is neither noble or virtuous to prolong one's suffering. Put it out of our misery.

And yet, you keep looking....

[CE750Jockey]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

And yet, you keep looking....

Do you know anyone that can actually avert their eyes from a train wreck?

[isthar]

Originally Posted by moldcad

I have chosen my own, fresh experience to make a point: AWD can only correct instability while accelerating (even if only slightly). At the same time, most accidents due to grip and thus stability loss happen while braking! My own example I described was only one of very many kinds of real-life situation that can occur - and one should remember that even if the car in front of me didn't exclude the use of throttle, most drivers in my situation would press it anyway - simply because they would PANIC. By the same logic, even if the original reason of stability loss is reckless cornering at WOT with DSC off by an under-skilled driver - when he feels the rear start to misbehave he would almost always BRAKE. Out of the PANIC. AWD cannot help when the car is braking, period.

This is why - when changing from 528xi to M235i - I passed on xDrive and chose LSD instead. LSD makes steering by throttle much more efficient (and fun).

Of course I'm not trying to talk out of AWD those who live in the heavy snow/long winters parts of the world; just my $ 0.02 on whether or not driving and AWD is safer by definition. Well - as my scary incident clearly showed - it doesn't.

One thing there... yes, the accident moment (the crash) probably happens mostly during braking... but the attitude of the car just prior to braking will likely differ quite a lot RWD vs AWD (of course stability control attempts to minimize that.) - also if you remember that accident avoidance is a real thing, then AWD might also have the advantage there - that's usually done at-speed with traction helping you steer.