[jonahk]

Originally Posted by Fasteddy1

Glad to hear that the drivability does not seem affected!

Do you have a manual transmission?

while that is a good decrease in your 0 to 60 time, I think you should be much quicker than that. I only used that lap timer couple times over the winter and I was getting 4.4 seconds. I do have xdrive though...

Pat

Yup, manual trans but kind of shagged Pilot Supersports. I'm also not the best at launching.

[GrayM235]

Hi, do you notice any hesitation from a stop to WOT? Thanks

[Jadar]

Originally Posted by Bee Pee

Not really - 14-15 psi should give you heap more power than what it's been shown.

As said already if it drives better and you are happy then that's what matters.

The funny thing is I know an ACF flash tuned m235xi that pulls 15psi on the oem turbo and pulls 14.1psi all the way to 6450rpm and it makes 340rwhp on a mustang AWD dyno. crbalch

How can these sport tunes even claim 14 or 15 psi and only put down 302whp on a dyno jet at that.

Just curious that's all :

[XutvJet]

Max PSI doesn't fully dictate total power. PSI is just a part of the power equation.

[crbalch]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Max PSI doesn't fully dictate total power. PSI is just a part of the power equation.

Except the sport tunes are doing nothing other than raising boost so he isn't wrong. I agree that it really is just part of the equation.

I think the issue is with companies claiming HP numbers strictly for marketing purposes. If Dinan was to try to sell a sport tune as a 10WHP gain, they would sell approximately zero. However, claiming X HP on a dynojet sounds better so they can market it. Its just slightly misleading when you actually break it down...

[Jadar]

Originally Posted by crbalch

Except the sport tunes are doing nothing other than raising boost so he isn't wrong. I agree that it really is just part of the equation.

I think the issue is with companies claiming HP numbers strictly for marketing purposes. If Dinan was to try to sell a sport tune as a 10WHP gain, they would sell approximately zero. However, claiming X HP on a dynojet sounds better so they can market it. Its just slightly misleading when you actually break it down...

Spot on. All is well for them until they run a proper tuned car on the pavement "where it matters" and get their rear handed to them.

At that point no amount of marketing or dynojet gimmick numbers will make a difference.

[Dinan_Engineering]

Originally Posted by crbalch

Except the sport tunes are doing nothing other than raising boost so he isn't wrong. I agree that it really is just part of the equation.

I think the issue is with companies claiming HP numbers strictly for marketing purposes. If Dinan was to try to sell a sport tune as a 10WHP gain, they would sell approximately zero. However, claiming X HP on a dynojet sounds better so they can market it. Its just slightly misleading when you actually break it down...

Originally Posted by Dejan_

Spot on. All is well for them until they run a proper tuned car on the pavement "where it matters" and get their rear handed to them.

At that point no amount of marketing or dynojet gimmick numbers will make a difference.

I couldn't agree with you guys more in that a proper tune besides just boost manipulation is far superior but the fact is these devices have been around forever and they sell. There is a market for them. We simply jumped into the fray with what we perceive to be a better value for the marketplace when factoring in the features you get.

As far as the numbers go there is no manipulation of these numbers for "marketing purposes". The test in question in this thread simply had everything going against it with a hot/humid day and 91 gas. Considering the conditions it was run a 10/35 gain is pretty respectable. Max gains on the platform would be 30/40 so its not like its that far off. The horsepower loss in delta is expected given that would occur at the upper end where the car is pulling back due to the heat it was run in.

[GrayM235]

Any updates on the iOS app?

[crbalch]

Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering

I couldn't agree with you guys more in that a proper tune besides just boost manipulation is far superior but the fact is these devices have been around forever and they sell. There is a market for them. We simply jumped into the fray with what we perceive to be a better value for the marketplace when factoring in the features you get.

As far as the numbers go there is no manipulation of these numbers for "marketing purposes". The test in question in this thread simply had everything going against it with a hot/humid day and 91 gas. Considering the conditions it was run a 10/35 gain is pretty respectable. Max gains on the platform would be 30/40 so its not like its that far off. The horsepower loss in delta is expected given that would occur at the upper end where the car is pulling back due to the heat it was run in.

While I agree there is a market for them, it is primarily people that are new to the BMW mod game, and whose eyes pop when they see 30/40 gains (and think its WHP). But I still think that is misleading because a) its on a dynojet which already has significant gains when compared to Mustang (~15%+ baked in), and b) this is absolute best case scenario. By using a Dynojet (which I know, every manufacturer does), you are fluffing the numbers right off the bat. To the newbie (me a few years ago), I would have taken one look at your pretty dyno graph and instantly purchased the device based on absolute numbers you show. That is misleading.

I appreciate the acknowledgement of a superior flash tune, and I totally understand its not for everyone. I just wanted to at least share some other perspectives with potential buyers that think they are going to be grabbing an additional 30/40 to the wheels with a $300 boost controller. Its simply not realistic.

[XutvJet]

How is using a Dynojet "fluffing" the numbers LOL Perhaps you're new to the game, but news flash, manipulating numbers on a Mustang dyno is REALLY easy. Since you can vary the load, you have a ton more control. This is great for all out tuning because it lets you tune for varying load conditions. It also allows for sneaky individuals to manipulate the numbers. Period. A Dynojet is simple. It's a weighted drum. The car spins the drum over a set amount of time and TQ (and HP) is derived. Damn simple and the readings across machines throughout the country are relatively consistent. The only way to manipulate the numbers with the Dynojet is to screw around with the correction factors, strap the car down excessively tight, and/or take heat soaked numbers and use those as baseline and compare to a "cold" run (i.e. stronger numbers).

Dynojets are great for gauging power gains assuming you're using the same machine and ideally the same overall conditions and cool downs. Strap the car on, run it a few times to get baselines. Install mod, run it a few times, and then compare average numbers across the graph. It's not rocket science. The gains/losses are what they are. If the car gains 30-40whp/wtq across the powerband, then the car will be about .3-.4 seconds and 3-4 mph quicker/faster in the 1/4 mile. With that said, gaining 40-50whp/wtq across only a small portion of the powerband will not result in a much quicker car. Hell, you could gain 50whp/wtq from 6000-7000rpms and the car will hardly be measurably quicker/faster because you're only in that range for a very small period of time. You need to look at the overall powerband. If the mod elevates the powerband across the entire rpm range, the car will be much quicker/faster. If it only elevates the powerband on a few spots, then the car will likely not be quicker/faster. Aftermarket intakes are a prime example of this. Gaining 15whp from 3500-4500rpm will not make the quicker/faster. I promise.

[crbalch]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

How is using a Dynojet "fluffing" the numbers LOL Perhaps you're new to the game, but news flash, manipulating numbers on a Mustang dyno is REALLY easy. Since you can vary the load, you have a ton more control. This is great for all out tuning because it lets you tune for varying load conditions. It also allows for sneaky individuals to manipulate the numbers. Period. A Dynojet is simple. It's a weighted drum. The car spins the drum over a set amount of time and TQ (and HP) is derived. Damn simple and the readings across machines throughout the country are relatively consistent. The only way to manipulate the numbers with the Dynojet is to screw around with the correction factors, strap the car down excessively tight, and/or take heat soaked numbers and use those as baseline and compare to a "cold" run (i.e. stronger numbers).

Mustang Dynos show more real world results because they DO have the ability to vary the load for the car on the dyno. This simulates an actual driving environment vs the dynojet which is as you point out, is simply a weighted drum. While Dynojets are perfectly fine for showing deltas between modifications, it is still not what I would consider a fully transparent way of showing what a mod is accomplishing. That "30hp" gain means a lot less when the car actually hits the pavement.

You also mention "sneaky" individuals manipulating data, yet that points right back at the manufacturers that advertise this stuff. Take a look at the Dinan graph. "Dinan Measured Max HP/TQ - 362/375" - sorry, but to the untrained eye that is misleading. To further your point of usable HP - the advertised gain is at 4k RPM, but then drops by 30% at 4.5k RPM, and never goes up again. So I stand by what I said about it being misleading.

Look, most manufacturers do it, so I am by no means singling out Dinan. It is just unfortunate for the first time modder to pick something like this up, assume they are going to get 30 WHP, only to find out they gained a whopping 9 WHP, and probably less in real world testing.

[GrayM235]

I installed this over the weekend and can attest that the difference from 3k to redline is quite noticeable. You'd be hard pressed to feel a 10hp increase, my butt dyno tells me that gains are much more in line with a 25/35 bump in hp/tq

For <$300, it's great bang for the buck.

[Bestia]

The majority of piggyback tunes are a great bang for the buck. I too have a Dinantronics Sport and am happy with it. The best test I did (for myself) was to use the tune for a week and then take it off for a few days. There is a Big "dyno-butt" difference.

[BMWZ4]

Originally Posted by Bestia

The majority of piggyback tunes are a great bang for the buck. I too have a Dinantronics Sport and am happy with it. The best test I did (for myself) was to use the tune for a week and then take it off for a few days. There is a Big "dyno-butt" difference.

Instead of taking it off, why not just set it to stock (0 psi boost)....just sayin'...

Unless you have an iPhone then I guess you can't do that.

[Bestia]

Originally Posted by BMWZ4

Instead of taking it off, why not just set it to stock (0 psi boost)....just sayin'...

Unless you have an iPhone then I guess you can't do that.

iPhone

[BMWZ4]

You could pick up a used android for something like $40...don't need a plan just the Bluetooth. At least you'd be able to fool around with the settings until Apple releases the app to Dinan.

Just a thought....

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by Dejan_

The funny thing is I know an ACF flash tuned m235xi that pulls 15psi on the oem turbo and pulls 14.1psi all the way to 6450rpm and it makes 340rwhp on a mustang AWD dyno. crbalch

How can these sport tunes even claim 14 or 15 psi and only put down 302whp on a dyno jet at that.

Just curious that's all :

Rule #1 never get caught up on manufacturer dyno claims.

Different dynos, different cars, different elevation, humidity, ETC ETC all factor in.

The delta is what matters and even that can be manipulated to extent depending on the conditions of the dyno.

1 quick example is doing hte stock dyno on a heat soaked car in the hotter part of the day.

Then doing your glory run on a cold vehicle, cold day and first run of the day.

Also ventilation of the area and the fans blowing on the vehicle will attribute to power gains/losses differences.

So many factors.

[GrayM235]

Any news on the iOS app?

[GrayM235]

The D-Sport app is now avail for iOS!

[BMWZ4]

Originally Posted by GrayM235

The D-Sport app is now avail for iOS!

Here's the link:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/d-sp...169979276?mt=8