[Viffermike]

A bit of a reality check for some, if I may:

Nothing that is mass produced -- nothing -- is going to make you completely happy or 'tick all of the boxes'. This is partially why there is an aftermarket for automobiles of all shapes, sizes, and uses. Nothing produced for people other than yourself (read: thousands upon thousands in the case of a car model) is going to make someone else totally happy.

This is also partially why there is an aftermarket for other items that people feel immense passion for, or feel a need to make better for them beyond OEM. Two examples of this: musical instruments and stereo equipment. Two more: houses and furniture.

I could go on, but I've made my point. The right approach is to pursue the car that is closest to your ideal out of the box, then make it even closer if you desire or feel a need.

(Anecdote: I have my dream bass guitar. Is it stock? Hell no. It has the neck of one model, the body of another, aftermarket pickups and preamp, and I tested about 10 brands of strings on it before I found a set that truly made it sing.)

[wtfbrah]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

A bit of a reality check for some, if I may:

Nothing that is mass produced -- nothing -- is going to make you completely happy or 'tick all of the boxes'. This is partially why there is an aftermarket for automobiles of all shapes, sizes, and uses. Nothing produced for people other than yourself (read: thousands upon thousands in the case of a car model) is going to make someone else totally happy.

This is also partially why there is an aftermarket for other items that people feel immense passion for, or feel a need to make better for them beyond OEM. Two examples of this: musical instruments and stereo equipment. Two more: houses and furniture.

I could go on, but I've made my point. The right approach is to pursue the car that is closest to your ideal out of the box, then make it even closer if you desire or feel a need.

(Anecdote: I have my dream bass guitar. Is it stock? Hell no. It has the neck of one model, the body of another, aftermarket pickups and preamp, and I tested about 10 brands of strings on it before I found a set that truly made it sing.)

Well, it's that easy ... If you know what you want.

What if you aren't sure? If you like the handling and drive feel of the BMW but the soft luxury and aggressive sound of the Merc? And you aren't sure which you care about more?

Then you can buy one and add the features of the other - but this isn't always feasible.

With the Merc, I guess you can tune it to drive more aggressively. But with the BMW, if the interior doesn't meet your needs, what can you really do? Aftermarket interior? Sounds very complicated, if it's even possible, to get all new leather seats or a dash, and would probably be very expensive.



In the grand scheme of things, not being sure what luxury performance vehicle to buy is quite a great problem to have and I can't really complain as a 22-year old. And I guess I would love either car. Hard to imagine stepping in the M240i, pushing the start button and thinking "damn, I wish I had the HUD that the Mercedes has, I should have bought that car".

[chattanooga240]

Originally Posted by wtfbrah

Hard to imagine stepping in the M240i, pushing the start button and thinking "damn, I wish I had the HUD that the Mercedes has, I should have bought that car".

Sounds like an Escalade may be in your future.

All kidding aside I was wondering what the hell you were talking about until I read your age, now it all makes sense.

I was young once too, and yes it is nice to have it all, but perfection is unobtainable when it comes to cars.

[Dylan86]

If you want HUD, this is the wrong car. This car has been simplified to offer a somewhat basic yet effective driver oriented dashboard and seating experience. They spent a decent amount time to make is more BASIC, which is what a lot of people seem to like about the current configuration.. It's not full of gadgetry and all of the things Audi/Merc are doing to sell cars. The 2 series was brought in to satisfy those wanting a somewhat "pure" experience but not at the expense of being too pure for a daily driver in terms of comfort. They couldn't possibly make us all happy in doing this.

The fun is there when you want/need it, and the comfort is also there when the fun is unwanted. It's not a track focused car like a full on M, nor a comfort focused car like a Merc. To me, it's in the perfect spot to hit the marks for a warm season daily driver (RWD, Sporty, Comfortable, Solid, 6MT). If you need AWD, it's available too for 12 months of service in colder climates.

Definitely a narrow marketed car, and it seems there's a lot of us in this market who are more than satisfied with the end product, and some who clearly NEED an M badge to feel satisfied or "pure" and end up getting into a big 4 door M3 (which to me is a totally different experience both in size, purpose and cost of ownership long term). Don't like it? trade it in...Always an option!

[Kolyan2k]

Some of my issues are solvable, but I am not a big fan of wasting money on mods. I would probably go with KW DCC suspension first, maybe some not so loud exhaust (MP maybe)

Car is pretty good, manual is great, power is good too, just feels too disconnected from the road and can't even hear the engine sound

[3.0L]

Originally Posted by Xiaoxi

Yea I love the relative rarity of these cars. Hope it stays that way.


For those who say it's not a head turner...I was working in a cafe last week and had a direct view of my M235i, which was parallel parked right outside the window. Quite a number of head turns. One even stopped completely lol.

Agreed. I've spotted a total of three M235i's since I bought mine 2 years ago. And my car still turns heads... a lot. I also get interesting stares from STi owners and other performance car owners. Can't say what they're thinking, but they do look. Serious looks.

[wtfbrah]

Originally Posted by nvmaddog

Sounds like an Escalade may be in your future.

All kidding aside I was wondering what the hell you were talking about until I read your age, now it all makes sense.

I was young once too, and yes it is nice to have it all, but perfection is unobtainable when it comes to cars.

Very true, which is why I have to choose.

I wish dealers would let you take the car and actually drive it around for a day or two instead of a 30 minute test drive.

[chattanooga240]

Originally Posted by Dylan86

If you want HUD, this is the wrong car. This car has been simplified to offer a somewhat basic yet effective driver oriented dashboard and seating experience. They spent a decent amount time to make is more BASIC, which is what a lot of people seem to like about the current configuration.. It's not full of gadgetry and all of the things Audi/Merc are doing to sell cars. The 2 series was brought in to satisfy those wanting a somewhat "pure" experience but not at the expense of being too pure for a daily driver in terms of comfort.

Very good post.

[chattanooga240]

Originally Posted by wtfbrah

Very true, which is why I have to choose.

I wish dealers would let you take the car and actually drive it around for a day or two instead of a 30 minute test drive.

Not meant to be sarcastic at all, but there are a good deal of Chevy and Jeep dealers that allow this.

Performance cars, not so much.

[wtfbrah]

Originally Posted by nvmaddog

Not meant to be sarcastic at all, but there are a good deal of Chevy and Jeep dealers that allow this.

Performance cars, not so much.

And it's fair. I wouldn't want to let some kid who just graduated college take home a 50k car for a day.

[chattanooga240]

Originally Posted by wtfbrah

And it's fair. I wouldn't want to let some kid who just graduated college take home a 50k car for a day.

Exactly and that is the point. In a 30 min test drive you should be able to find out everything you need to know about a performance car on whether it is worth buying or not.

[Dylan86]

Originally Posted by Kolyan2k

Some of my issues are solvable, but I am not a big fan of wasting money on mods. I would probably go with KW DCC suspension first, maybe some not so loud exhaust (MP maybe)

Car is pretty good, manual is great, power is good too, just feels too disconnected from the road and can't even hear the engine sound

Get stiffer engine mounts and suspension and I'm sure you'll have the "disconnected" issue sorted out

BMW worked very hard to make it quiet, you know.

D

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by wtfbrah

Well, it's that easy ... If you know what you want.

What if you aren't sure? If you like the handling and drive feel of the BMW but the soft luxury and aggressive sound of the Merc? And you aren't sure which you care about more?

Then you can buy one and add the features of the other - but this isn't always feasible.

With the Merc, I guess you can tune it to drive more aggressively. But with the BMW, if the interior doesn't meet your needs, what can you really do? Aftermarket interior? Sounds very complicated, if it's even possible, to get all new leather seats or a dash, and would probably be very expensive.

In the grand scheme of things, not being sure what luxury performance vehicle to buy is quite a great problem to have and I can't really complain as a 22-year old. And I guess I would love either car. Hard to imagine stepping in the M240i, pushing the start button and thinking "damn, I wish I had the HUD that the Mercedes has, I should have bought that car".

Honestly, there aren't many 22-year-olds who know what they want -- in cars or otherwise -- so don't feel too uncomfortable.

At the same time, also know that this kind of decision isn't a be-all-end-all thing at your age. If you end up not liking what you acquire, the next one is right down the road a bit. You've got plenty of time to satiate your current tastes, develop new ones, and figure out what tastes best among it all.

Just don't expect perfection. That doesn't exist because perfection in something such as a car is a mix of objective and subjective things. There will be compromises. That's life.

[wtfbrah]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Honestly, there aren't many 22-year-olds who know what they want -- in cars or otherwise -- so don't feel too uncomfortable.

At the same time, also know that this kind of decision isn't a be-all-end-all thing at your age. If you end up not liking what you acquire, the next one is right down the road a bit. You've got plenty of time to satiate your current tastes, develop new ones, and figure out what tastes best among it all.

Just don't expect perfection. That doesn't exist because perfection in something such as a car is a mix of objective and subjective things. There will be compromises. That's life.

Well I guess what I'm really hoping is that either car will make me happy, not that it will be perfect. I don't care if my M240i has a stupid door handle that pisses me off. But I what I don't want to happen is for me to regret not getting the other car.

I don't think I'd regret buying the M240 and letting go of the luxury of the Merc. But I think I might regret going for the luxury of the Merc over the handling of the M240.

I guess none of this matters until I've had a chance to push both cars HARD ( I haven't, the Merc drive was limited to a highway) and I have offers in front of me so I can compare prices.

[reala]

I agree everything op says. Specially handling is a big let down for me.
Body roll

[wtfbrah]

If you want HUD, this is the wrong car. This car has been simplified to offer a somewhat basic yet effective driver oriented dashboard and seating experience.

Also I have to say I disagree with this. I like the simplicity of the interior but a HUD doesn't really take away from that, only add convenience. I don't think that being able to turn on a HUD with turn by turn directions takes away from your ability to turn it OFF and drive very sporty. I mean, certainly the HUD in the M3 or M2 won't take away from the sportiness of the car.

[bimmerfile]

Originally Posted by wtfbrah

You know, I've just really never liked the convertibles. It's a looks thing, I don't like the way they look. I guess I'll have to try driving one with the top down.

LOL. How will driving the 2er ragtop improve the "I don't like the way it looks"?

[wtfbrah]

Originally Posted by bimmerfile

LOL. How will driving the 2er ragtop improve the "I don't like the way it looks"?

Because a car isn't 100% about looks?

If I don't like how it looks but it's a joy to drive with the top down, wouldn't you say that's worth it?

[Dylan86]

Originally Posted by wtfbrah

Also I have to say I disagree with this. I like the simplicity of the interior but a HUD doesn't really take away from that, only add convenience. I don't think that being able to turn on a HUD with turn by turn directions takes away from your ability to turn it OFF and drive very sporty. I mean, certainly the HUD in the M3 or M2 won't take away from the sportiness of the car.

I get what you're saying, but I don't think many here would agree. HUD's are practical in luxury "do-it-for-me" cars. The 235/240 has much more of a "do it myself" orientation with the exception of of an auto gearbox option and some nannies that assist while you drive.

What I was getting at in my post in particular was unneeded additional technology. Since when was a HUD "needed" or "required"? Sure it's a nice feature when it works or when you're under warranty, but it's also one more thing to fail under long term ownership. One reason many of us bought this car was because it was simplified. With technology going the direction it is, I wanted a car that brought back the basics of driving dynamics and "feel", this car was the first I drove in a long time that gave me a sense of feel and confidence from a RWD car. There's also a certain level of confidence with a 6spd manual, tried and true N55 powertrain, knowing we can get a good service life out of the car (not all of us lease). If BMW put a HUD, and dressed up the tech list like the competitors, we the end consumer would pay for it. This is already a fairly high priced car for what it is and I think anything in addition to what's currently offered would just drive prices up and sales down. Just look at how many here bought the bare bones model with LSD (what I was after before I found my deal) which is basically sunroof delete, no tech, no assistance packages, nothing, just a bare bones fun sporty 2 door BMW that's a joy to drive. Once you load all the tech and accessories you're well over $10k above base and it's almost into M2 territory.

If you're driven off of features, then this car may disappoint you at it's price point. Mercedes may be more aligned to your wants/needs. It's you at the end of the day making the decision, and whatever it is you need to swallow the pill, not us. Buy what suits your lifestyle, not others. Also, take my opinion with a grain of salt, it's just my $.02

D

[wtfbrah]

Originally Posted by Dylan86

I get what you're saying, but I don't think many here would agree. HUD's are practical in luxury "do-it-for-me" cars. The 235/240 has much more of a "do it myself" orientation with the exception of of an auto gearbox option and some nannies that assist while you drive.

What I was getting at in my post in particular was unneeded additional technology. Since when was a HUD "needed" or "required"? Sure it's a nice feature when it works or when you're under warranty, but it's also one more thing to fail under long term ownership. One reason many of us bought this car was because it was simplified. With technology going the direction it is, I wanted a car that brought back the basics of driving dynamics and "feel", this car was the first I drove in a long time that gave me a sense of feel and confidence from a RWD car. There's also a certain level of confidence with a 6spd manual, tried and true N55 powertrain, knowing we can get a good service life out of the car (not all of us lease). If BMW put a HUD, and dressed up the tech list like the competitors, we the end consumer would pay for it. This is already a fairly high priced car for what it is and I think anything in addition to what's currently offered would just drive prices up and sales down. Just look at how many here bought the bare bones model with LSD (what I was after before I found my deal) which is basically sunroof delete, no tech, no assistance packages, nothing, just a bare bones fun sporty 2 door BMW that's a joy to drive. Once you load all the tech and accessories you're well over $10k above base and it's almost into M2 territory.

If you're driven off of features, then this car may disappoint you at it's price point. Mercedes may be more aligned to your wants/needs. It's you at the end of the day making the decision, and whatever it is you need to swallow the pill, not us. Buy what suits your lifestyle, not others. Also, take my opinion with a grain of salt, it's just my $.02

D

That is a very good argument and very well put, thank you. Seriously, that was really helpful in seeing what the car is mean to be.


The fact that the M2 is so close in price is one of the most frustrating things about the car, and I think that if the M2 were available without an extremely absurdly long wait I'd pull the trigger on one.

I do see what you're saying about the goal of simplicity. I have to balance that with the "daily driver" aspect as well. You're right that if technology and features are what I'm after, then I should go MB. But technology and features aren't really what I'm after - I'm after the driving feeling, but I just want technology and features ALSO. So then you get back to the point of "wanting it all" - and I'd certainly have to pay for that.

Case in point - the C43 AMG loaded up how I like it, with all the assistance packages, HUD, leather, etc... 63k. Whereas, I think I can load up an M240i that I'll be happy with for 52k MSRP.

In the end, you've helped me realize something - what I want is the feel of the M240i with the luxury of the C43. For that, I think I'm looking at M3 price range, 75k+ fully loaded... But then, I might as well start looking at 911s. After that, I'll figure, might as well look 20k up and look at an R8.

In the end, the M240i is probably the right car for me. It made me laugh when I drove it, what more can you ask of a car?

[Questofthetune]

Originally Posted by Kolyan2k

They have pretty much 4 different ISFs, not sure which one you drove. Didn't Camaro kill M4 in every single category including steering and suspension feel?

I wouldn't be surprised if M235 could hang with ISF or perhaps even kill it, but like I said V8 and reliability are the key points. It's almost the same as the original argument about M235i vs M3.....ISF is M3 competitor.

I honestly am not sure which model- but I did 45,000 miles in the 1le camaro and I loved it but I love the feel on the m235 better. I can't explain it somce weight really isn't that different but it's so much more refined and I HATED the camaro on the crappy army base roads I was stationed on.

[3.0L]

To the OP:

Since you seem to be unhappy with your car, why not trade it in on something that you can truly love?

What is the point of bitching about your M235i; the car you actually bought and ultimately don't like? Jeepers dude, just about every car enthusiast has ended up with a car they don't like. Frig, get rid of it. Put both you and your car out of your misery and sell it to someone who will enjoy it.

Free yourself!