[deathsliver]

Originally Posted by w3rkn

Another troll..



Looks are subjective, they are not a spec..
Additionally, my 135is is butt ugly... doesn't matter to a real driver.

And for essentially identical specs, I would take the looker over a cheap ass looking boat.

[Year's_End]

Looks like we can't have a discussion without acting like kids. Calling it a POS, resorting to the stereotypical redneck cliche, and saying it's ugly only makes you look immature.

It's also beside the main point of this thread. Nobody's talking looks. If you're hung up on stereotypes and need a certain badge to make you sleep better at night, keep it to yourself.

You could also try pulling the roundel contacts out of your eyes and try to evaluate a car objectively like any normal enthusiast would. Just a thought.

[deathsliver]

Originally Posted by Year's_End

Looks like we can't have a discussion without acting like kids. Calling it a POS, resorting to the stereotypical redneck cliche, and saying it's ugly only makes you look immature.

It's also beside the main point of this thread. Nobody's talking looks. If you're hung up on stereotypes and need a certain badge to make you sleep better at night, keep it to yourself.

You could also try pulling the roundel contacts out of your eyes and try to evaluate a car objectively like any normal enthusiast would. Just a thought.

Relax man. I said the specs are similar and it does not look good in my opinion. Plus it's way bigger which does not do it for me. Concerning looks, it is what it is and even if subjective this factors in ones decision in purchasing a car or not. Sure the POS and redneck comments were out of line but there's some truth to it. There's more than just specs...

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by deathsliver

Relax man. I said the specs are similar and it does not look good in my opinion. Plus it's way bigger which does not do it for me. Concerning looks, it is what it is and even if subjective this factors in one decision in purchasing a car or not. For equal specs. Sure the POS and redneck comments were out of line but there's some truth to it. There's more than specs...

That's fair. I just don't see why every thread involving a Mustang devolves into the same thing. It's not just you either, there are definitely things said that would stoke a fire in here.

To be transparent, it does unnerve me a bit considering that I'm heavily vested in the S550 and am ready to ditch the E92. That's all.

[deathsliver]

Originally Posted by Year's_End

That's fair. I just don't see why every thread involving a Mustang devolves into the same thing. It's not just you either, there are definitely things said that would stoke a fire in here.

To be transparent, it does unnerve me a bit considering that I'm heavily vested in the S550 and am ready to ditch the E92. That's all.

That's understandable. I just got my 235i a week ago and having someone like the OP coming on here praising the mustang is very irritating as well. I just don't see the point, enthusiast or not. I'm not all over the Audi/Merc/Ford forums bashing the competition. Note that the title of the thread was M235 versus EB and the OP's waiting for the M2....go figure.

[Lucky13]

New Camaro coming in 2016 let's start a M235 vs Camaro thread because I'm going to puke if I have to read another M235 vs Mustang thread. Since when did the Mustang become the sole coupe in the marketplace. 90% plus of people buying BMW's are cross shopping German cars or other premium cars. We now need a tread for Camaro, Challenger, Charger, 370 Z, Hyundai coupe let's add in the Buick 225 from 1970 since there the same size as the Mustang. Seriously, the thing is 6 inches longer and a lot wider than the 4 series which is huge. Why can't people start their M235 vs Mustang new thread every two weeks on a Ford website?

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by Lucky13

New Camaro coming in 2016 let's start a M235 vs Camaro thread because I'm going to puke if I have to read another M235 vs Mustang thread. Since when did the Mustang become the sole coupe in the marketplace. 90% plus of people buying BMW's are cross shopping German cars or other premium cars. We now need a tread for Camaro, Challenger, Charger, 370 Z, Hyundai coupe let's add in the Buick 225 from 1970 since there the same size as the Mustang. Seriously, the thing is 6 inches longer and a lot wider than the 4 series which is huge. Why can't people start their M235 vs Mustang new thread every two weeks on a Ford website?

I detect irritability.

[pikcachu]

I think educated buyers buy BMW for the combination of engine, handling, interior, exterior, package....

Maybe the new Mustang is a great car but until is out it's kind of pointless to do imaginary comparisons....

[BLK235iNJ]

I heard the GT350 is going to be faster than a Lamborghini. And the mustang also has Recaros and a SHAKER system! I can't wait. For the price and specs I just don't see how any other coupe will sell.

[BLK235iNJ]

Quick question, are you dd driving the the car or are you just looking at specs for track use? Just curious what your requirements are. The requirements would drive my logic for selecting the right car.

Just for the record this thread has nothing to do with my decision to buy the m235i. If I wanted the Mustang I'd go buy that too

m

Originally Posted by w3rkn

You, along with a few others are just here to troll this thread..


None of you have any intention of knowing the difference & virtues of each car, just want to feel good about your purchase... right..? That is NOT what this thread is about... nor is it about me... another tact, you keep trying to get this thread closed.

Many seem butthurt, or even vehement over the idea of a Mustang GT being a better purchase.. but if you were 100% comfortable with that purchase, you wouldn't even respond here, instead to have to uphold your decision to buy, by coming here and bashing anything that makes your decision look bad...

People's actions, speak louder than you words. So it is funny to watch you newbies derail a thread, that is based on specs. Because you psychologically you don't want to know the answer.. & have buyers remorse.. lol (So you defend/attack.. personally.)

Upset that your BMW is looking weak against a cheap American car... right? Unable to put your FEELINGS & EMOTION aside, for a little paper war.., right?

Where are all of you in the 235i vs Cayman R.. type discussions..? lol..



Want to race BMW's ..? ( The 2-series weighs the same as a Mustang)... dOH! <---- Fact

Wait whaaa ... ^^






Personally, My take is this:

After driving many miles, the PPK2 N55 needs a LSD, to be the car it was meant to be. It just isn't consistent around the corners. At this price range, a LSD should be standard. If I were to keep my 135is, I would def need to get a LSD, period.

That^ same sentiment is already being murmered in the 2-series threads. So as a whole and looking forward, the purchase of a M235i.. must include a $3,300 lsd.. bringing it's real price to nearly $48,000 !!!! (M2 starting price @ $52k'ish)



Secondly, the 135i(s) is lighter than your 235i.. So before I step up to something heavier.. and larger.. like the 2-series, 3-series & 4-series.. I will easily look at and test drive the s550 Mustang. Why not..?

Additionally, if the M2 isn't lighter than a 1-series, whats the point, I can just get a DINAN tune (409ft-lbs) and build out from there, right? (But a Tune+LSD = $4.5k on top of my $52 price tag = $56k) .. and the M4 is the size of a 7 series from 20 years ago.. why not look at the something equally as large, like SVT Mustang... ?



Lastly, .. for any of those who are unable to follow LOGIC, & want to bash the EcoBoost.. it is too funny that you can't make the leap of logic, to understand that the GT w/pp is still $5k less than the 235i.. ... the EB with a Ford tune will have nearly the same HP/TQ as a 235i.. and you will still save $12,000 for helmets, tires and other track necessities.
And again... lets not forget to mention.. that a LSD for the 235i is another $3,300.. Which is a farce.

So who here is really laughing... the people who bought a 235i that's heavier than a 1-series.. or the people who want a car as heavy as a 2-series, but 435HP and Recaros..?


Plz, post more butthurt... this is getting funny. Most you of kids can't even be objective.

[BLK235iNJ]

Put some Bazooka tubes and louvers on that bad boy (s550)

[danimal]

I honestly don't know how the new Mustang will stack up against the M235i in terms of things that aren't easily quantifiable by specs, but it looks like Ford has definitely taken its new pony car up a notch in almost all respects. As with any Mustang, it will offer plenty of bang for the buck, but is looks like it might also deliver on interior quality, fit and finish, and seat comfort/support, something it hasn't exactly done in the past.

I'm not personally wowed by the interior design, but at least in photos, it doesn't look overtly cheap. As for the exterior styling, I'd say it works. It manages to be modern and "Mustang" at the same time. I have to agree with those who point out its jumbo dimensions. It's definitely not a close competitor to the 2 Series in that respect.

Ultimately, I hope the new Mustang is a resounding success. Whether you are a died-in-the-wool BMW fanboy or just someone who appreciates a car with excellent driving dynamics, you should never want the competition to be weak. If the Mustang is excellent and steals some BMW sales, that's only going to keep the pressure on BMW to deliver better cars and more value. Meanwhile, I'll be looking forward to the reviews.

[jeremicium]

Dear Dr. Freud,

I have highlighted all of your astute observations. Why waste your time on this forum? You could be helping out on a psychology forum with your truly dizzying insights. You truly fancy yourself the Freud or Jung of Bimmerpost don't you? You're not alone, we've all seen plenty of self proclaimed smartypants on here.

FWIW, not a Noob. Check my join date...huh Noob. Also, no buyers remorse. I don't drive an M235i. So what's my motivation for derailing your thread? Surely you have dissected my motivation for this.

My take: I have moments of weakness where I can't resist engaging in meaningless banter with people with delusions of their own superior intellect.

Originally Posted by w3rkn

You, along with a few others are just here to troll this thread..


None of you have any intention of knowing the difference & virtues of each car, just want to feel good about your purchase... right..? That is NOT what this thread is about... nor is it about me... another tact, you keep trying to get this thread closed.

Many seem butthurt, or even vehement over the idea of a Mustang GT being a better purchase.. but if you were 100% comfortable with that purchase, you wouldn't even respond here, instead to have to uphold your decision to buy, by coming here and bashing anything that makes your decision look bad...

People's actions, speak louder than you words. So it is funny to watch you newbies derail a thread, that is based on specs. Because you psychologically you don't want to know the answer.. & have buyers remorse.. lol (So you defend/attack.. personally.)

Upset that your BMW is looking weak against a cheap American car... right? Unable to put your FEELINGS & EMOTION aside, for a little paper war.., right?

Where are all of you in the 235i vs Cayman R.. type discussions..? lol..



Want to race BMW's ..? The 2-series weighs the same as a Mustang... dOH! <---- Fact

Wait whaaa ... ^^






Personally, My take is this:

After driving many miles, the PPK2 N55 needs a LSD, to be the car it was meant to be. It just isn't consistent around the corners. At this price range, a LSD should be standard. If I were to keep my 135is, I would def need to get a LSD, period.

That^ same sentiment is already being murmered in the 2-series threads. So as a whole and looking forward, the purchase of a M235i.. must include a $3,300 lsd.. bringing it's real price to nearly $48,000 !!!! (M2 starting price @ $52k'ish)



Secondly, the 135i(s) is lighter than your 235i.. So before I step up to something heavier.. and larger.. like the 2-series, 3-series & 4-series.. I will easily look at and test drive the s550 Mustang. Why not..?

Additionally, if the M2 isn't lighter than a 1-series, whats the point, I can just get a DINAN tune (409ft-lbs) and build out from there, right? (But a Tune+LSD = $4.5k on top of my $52 price tag = $56k) .. and the M4 is the size of a 7 series from 20 years ago.. why not look at the something equally as large, like SVT Mustang... ?



Lastly, .. for any of those who are unable to follow LOGIC, & want to bash the EcoBoost.. it is too funny that you can't make the leap of logic, to understand that the GT w/pp is still $5k less than the 235i.. ... the EB with a Ford tune will have nearly the same HP/TQ as a 235i.. and you will still save $12,000 for helmets, tires and other track necessities.
And again... lets not forget to mention.. that a LSD for the 235i is another $3,300.. Which is a farce.

So who here is really laughing... the people who bought a 235i that's heavier than a 1-series.. or the people who want a car as heavy as a 2-series, but 435HP and Recaros..?


Plz, post more butthurt... this is getting funny. Most you of kids can't even be objective.

[w3rkn]

Originally Posted by BLK235iNJ

Quick question, are you dd driving the the car or are you just looking at specs for track use? Just curious what your requirements are. The requirements would drive my logic for selecting the right car.

Just for the record this thread has nothing to do with my decision to buy the m235i. If I wanted the Mustang I'd go buy that too

m

Again, this isn't about me... but about the DIFFERENCES & SIMILARITIES of each of these cars. (ie: their virtues).

Not hard to understand the concept of comparing two products.. Additionally, as the actual reviews roll out, we can discuss more things in detail, but the specs alone give a basis for argument & comparison.

[w3rkn]

Originally Posted by jeremicium

Dear Dr. Freud,

I have highlighted all of your astute observations. Why waste your time on this forum? You could be helping out on a psychology forum with your truly dizzying insights. You truly fancy yourself the Freud or Jung of Bimmerpost don't you? You're not alone, we've all seen plenty of self proclaimed smartypants on here.

FWIW, not a Noob. Check my join date...huh Noob. Also, no buyers remorse. I don't drive an M235i. So what's my motivation for derailing your thread? Surely you have dissected my motivation for this.

My take: I have moments of weakness where I can't resist engaging in meaningless banter with people with delusions of their own superior intellect.

And I quote:

You, along with a few others are just here to troll this thread.

None of you have any intention of knowing the difference & virtues of each car

Many seem butthurt, or even vehement over the idea of

People's actions, speak louder than you words

..for any of those who are unable to follow LOGIC

..funny to watch you newbies derail a thread

Guess you think everything's about you, & unable to discern that People are NOT talking directly to you... those who do, are called an egomaniacs..!

Get over yourself, this is a Automobile thread..

[deathsliver]

Originally Posted by w3rkn

And I quote:








Guess you think everything's about you, & unable to discern that People are NOT talking directly to you... those who do, are called an egomaniacs..!

Get over yourself, this is a Automobile thread..

LOL. In front of Hooters.

[BLK235iNJ]

My opinion.

Quality:

I saw the mustang in person. I wasn't thrilled with the materials seemed very close to my 13. The bmw I think has the advantage.

Performance:
On paper I think the 15 gt will be faster all around. The eb modded most likely will also be faster than a stock 235.

Driver feel:
I can't provide an opinion on the mustang although for me the car is too big for my liking. I can't see going from a 1 or a 2 series to a mustang as an upgrade in driver feel.

Modding:
Fords are cheap to mod BMWs can be but I wouldn't go that route. This is a null since technically you can mod to extreme. Unless fbo is considered I'm going with the mustang.

Bang for the buck:
Mustang all day

Styling:
Bmw. Not crazy about the front end of the mustang.

Economical:
Bmw Eco pro (although I never use it) so toss up with eb.

Room:
Comfort I'll say bmw


Visibility:
Bmw

Warranty and maintenance:
Bmw

Holds value:
Bmw

Exclusivity:
Bmw unless you spend big bucks on a limited edition model. I rarely see 135is or m235i in my area.

Lastly lady appeal:
Bmw

Hope this lines up better with what you are trying to do.

Originally Posted by w3rkn

Again, this isn't about me... but about the DIFFERENCES & SIMILARITIES of each of these cars. (ie: their virtues).

Not hard to understand the concept of comparing two products.. Additionally, as the actual reviews roll out, we can discuss more things in detail, but the specs alone give a basis for argument & comparison.

[w3rkn]

I agree^

You brought up a good point about visibility, which has always been a prob with that car.

[mmmmm235i]

Well that was a fun read haha. I do not see these cars as direct competitors but because the OP insists ill do my best. These cars are different in size (4 series is too big for my taste) and price (mustang v. Camaro v. Frs etc.) to the extent that I wouldn't have cross shopped. I have always seen mustang as compromising luxury/tech/interior quality for raw performance. If you only care about going fast then buy the mustang. Most people and certainly those who buy BMW are looking for a balance of luxury and performance. I assume most of us own BMWs or want to otherwise you wouldn't be reading this nonsense. For those who use their cars for things like going to work, taking long trips or going to the grocery store, comfort and luxury is as important if not more than performance. I find the m235 to be an exceptional blend of comfort, quality, and performance. I even consider it a good value with the engine/tune, brakes and suspension that are standard on the 235 over 228. With this car you can scare the crap out of any passenger at a moments notice, shit my gf has been complaining of whiplash since I got it. At the same time the 235 is solid and planted on the road, there are no creeks or rattles and you can barely feel 130. It also has all the luxury you would want short of a 7 series. While I can't say with absolute certainty that the new mustang will be just like the previous generations, they tend to feel cheap on the inside. This is to be expected at the price point and I don't see it as a negative thing because ford and BMW are targeting different buyers. Ford doesn't want you to cross shop it with a 235 because it won't feel as good, but I'm sure the new mustang will crush the camaro.
OP you argue that it has the same or better performance for 20k cheaper but that money has to come from somewhere. While we pay a premium for the roundel it's certainly not 20k. Ford sacrifices comfort and quality for performance. BMW does not plain and simple. That's the price difference and then reason everyone is so sick of this thread.

Price unfortunately for us enthusiasts is usually one of the most critical otherwise we would all be driving ferraris and lambos. Most of us who do not have the luxury to just buy a car for fun would not consider these two cars competitors. If you an afford a 50k car you are not gonna buy one for 30k because it has the same performance. Until we can drive it that's all you can argue

You say we have buyers remorse but I was never in the market for the mustang. Maybe if we were talking about m4 or c400. If you are looking for a dedicated track car I don't blame you for not wanting to spend 50k, but you drive a 135IS so I don't really understand where you are coming from. Maybe you have buyers remorse because you should have waited for the 235 that's not ugly and just as fast. It's fine tho cuz your getting that M2 which is gonna be a great car.

[w3rkn]

Originally Posted by mmmmm235i

Well that was a fun read haha. I do not see these cars as direct competitors but because the OP insists ill do my best. These cars are different in size (4 series is too big for my taste) and price (mustang v. Camaro v. Frs etc.) to the extent that I wouldn't have cross shopped. I have always seen mustang as compromising luxury/tech/interior quality for raw performance. If you only care about going fast then buy the mustang. Most people and certainly those who buy BMW are looking for a balance of luxury and performance. I assume most of us own BMWs or want to otherwise you wouldn't be reading this nonsense.

For those who use their cars for things like going to work, taking long trips or going to the grocery store, comfort and luxury is as important if not more than performance. I find the m235 to be an exceptional blend of comfort, quality, and performance. I even consider it a good value with the engine/tune, brakes and suspension that are standard on the 235 over 228. With this car you can scare the crap out of any passenger at a moments notice, shit my gf has been complaining of whiplash since I got it. At the same time the 235 is solid and planted on the road, there are no creeks or rattles and you can barely feel 130. It also has all the luxury you would want short of a 7 series. While I can't say with absolute certainty that the new mustang will be just like the previous generations, they tend to feel cheap on the inside. This is to be expected at the price point and I don't see it as a negative thing because ford and BMW are targeting different buyers. Ford doesn't want you to cross shop it with a 235 because it won't feel as good, but I'm sure the new mustang will crush the camaro.

OP you argue that it has the same or better performance for 20k cheaper but that money has to come from somewhere. While we pay a premium for the roundel it's certainly not 20k. Ford sacrifices comfort and quality for performance. BMW does not plain and simple. That's the price difference and then reason everyone is so sick of this thread.

Price unfortunately for us enthusiasts is usually one of the most critical otherwise we would all be driving ferraris and lambos. Most of us who do not have the luxury to just buy a car for fun would not consider these two cars competitors. If you an afford a 50k car you are not gonna buy one for 30k because it has the same performance. Until we can drive it that's all you can argue

You say we have buyers remorse but I was never in the market for the mustang. Maybe if we were talking about m4 or c400. If you are looking for a dedicated track car I don't blame you for not wanting to spend 50k, but you drive a 135IS so I don't really understand where you are coming from. Maybe you have buyers remorse because you should have waited for the 235 that's not ugly and just as fast. It's fine tho cuz your getting that M2 which is gonna be a great car.

Very well spoken...

And, I agree with EVERYTHING you've said.


Except the s550 changes everything I've ever thought about a Mustang. I am not the only one, because there are plenty of BMW owners on the Mustang forums, more so than any outside group. And only because of the engineering that has gone into that car.

Alan Mulally said he was squarely chasing BMW with this new Mustang & as a BMW owner, I believe there is reason to be at unease.

I have only seen the s550 briefly (less than 10 min), but I didn't waste time looking at it, but reaching in and feeling the interior and seats and quality of components... and with all honestly there was no difference in the quality of materials used in my car. I can overlook the fit & finish for the extra $17,000.

The one thing I won't forgive is the ride.. which I am eagerly waiting. Just to feel how different it really is.. or isn't.

I am not vested in the EB, or GT because I am looking to cross shop the M2/Vette/SVT, but either way it's the same chassis so still excited to add a new car to my short list & test drive it's siblings.



Unfortunately, BMW will never make another car the size of a 1-series and one of the reasons I opted for the smaller, lighter 135is, over the M235i. Seeing how big the M3 (ergo M4) has gotten, that leave the BMW M2 holding the torch for BMW and if that comes up short, I will opt for the Corvette, or the SVT Mustang.

But as it stand, the 2-series gained considerable weight and now sits alongside the Mustang, with less interior space & less performance (over-all).



Not going to lie.. the Mustang is also American. I myself, can't wrap my head around the fact I am on Mustang Forums, or even considering this car, but if so, it will feel good not to get jeers, or have to park way out, so people won't mess with it, etc.

There is a lot of negative stigmatism owning BMW cars (my 3rd) and the badge luster for me has wore off, so I am no longer glamorized by owning one.





And, again... PRICE.

Not because it's cheaper, but because it easier. Easier to have aftermarket, easier to have LSD, easier to repair, easier to tune... etc.

Oh.. and nannies like CDV... that illustrate BMW's engineering isn't as deep as we would like & that the "performance value" has declined over the years.. (save 1M). //M-Division stands for marketing now & the way I see it, ALL of BMW's reputation hinges on the M2.. to see if BMW's DNA has truly died.

I've been a die-hard BMW fan since I was 12 & I use to love every car they made. Now, there isn't a one I'd keep (save 1M), so waiting to see if the M2 is quintessential, or not.



I agree that BMW's are a perfect blend of comfort, quality, and performance.. I'll wait to see what Mulally has done, before I make my final decision..

[darkerosxx]

Originally Posted by w3rkn

I am not vested in the EB, or GT because I am looking to cross shop the M2/Vette/SVT, but either way it's the same chassis so still excited to add a new car to my short list & test drive it's siblings.

Said it all right there, cross shopping a M2, a corvette, and mustang svt. Wow. /thread

[alz0rz]

Sorry buddy, no one gives a crap.