[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by W///

Correct. The M3 is still on my list, but it's just too big to be a car for just me, and too small to be practical (2 big dogs)

While some people while def jump at a base Cayman, I probably wouldn't. A Cayman S would be the minimum for me. After driving an M235i (8AT), the Cayman S I drove right after felt a little slow to me in every day driving situation due to the torque of the N55. It did sound ridiculously good with their performance exhaust though. I just couldn't stomach the $85k price tag

It is interesting to me that the 3 "looks" a lot bigger, but didn't feel much bigger when I had one for a loaner recently. I agree that the 2er is a better size generally speaking, but I wonder if you would notice the size difference on an everyday basis.

I only had the 3er for a day, but I drove it several times, and it felt very similar to my 235 from the size standpoint. At this point, I am more afraid that the main selling card of the M2 over an M3 is going to be size and potentially better looks (although the M3 is really hot for a 4 door) - which is what got me into the 235 that I don't particularly like.

I haven't driven one of the newest generation Caymans, but to me that car has a different purpose than an M2 - you are really sacrificing a lot of practicality in order to have a real sports car experience. And while the torque of the N54/N55 is a lot of fun, it is a different kind of fun with a high strung NA engine - which you know from your E92 M3.

It's the same with my Ducati L-twin - is it the fastest thing, on paper or on the street? Nope. Am I good enough to really tell anyway? Nope. Does it rattle the fillings in my teeth and put a smile on my face when I ride it? Yes. those are the types of reasons that I could "live" with a "slower" car - as long as it delivers on the excitement and experience side. That will have to be the M2's ticket (like it was achieved with the 1M), because it's not going to have certain things that we wished it would.

[W///]

Originally Posted by dmboone25

It is interesting to me that the 3 "looks" a lot bigger, but didn't feel much bigger when I had one for a loaner recently. I agree that the 2er is a better size generally speaking, but I wonder if you would notice the size difference on an everyday basis.

I only had the 3er for a day, but I drove it several times, and it felt very similar to my 235 from the size standpoint. At this point, I am more afraid that the main selling card of the M2 over an M3 is going to be size and potentially better looks (although the M3 is really hot for a 4 door) - which is what got me into the 235 that I don't particularly like.

I haven't driven one of the newest generation Caymans, but to me that car has a different purpose than an M2 - you are really sacrificing a lot of practicality in order to have a real sports car experience. And while the torque of the N54/N55 is a lot of fun, it is a different kind of fun with a high strung NA engine - which you know from your E92 M3.

It's the same with my Ducati L-twin - is it the fastest thing, on paper or on the street? Nope. Am I good enough to really tell anyway? Nope. Does it rattle the fillings in my teeth and put a smile on my face when I ride it? Yes. those are the types of reasons that I could "live" with a "slower" car - as long as it delivers on the excitement and experience side. That will have to be the M2's ticket (like it was achieved with the 1M), because it's not going to have certain things that we wished it would.

A used Cayman would be a great buy IMO. I'm a huge fan of those cars, even more so than the new 991's out there. They have an awesome interior, look absolutely gorgeous, and are just so much fun to drive. They are just pretty pricey new.

Personally, I want my next car to be a turbo (not counting GT4) just to have something different to the S65. Don't get me wrong, the F80 feels smaller than it really is, but to me it was night and day. Keep in mind that I daily an E36 M3, so that's the perfect size for me. I feel like the E92 is already too big, so the F80 is going even further in the wrong direction.

Next time you are in your car, try my very scientific test (that was sarcasm ). In my E36, if I stretched far enough from the driver seat, I could touch the outside of the passenger door. On my E92, I can at least touch the top of the door panel. On the F80, it was a swing and a miss. Don't even think I could even grab the door handle. The M235i I test drove was more in between my E36 and E92, which is great to see

Is it important? Nah, not really haha. We do have central door locks (well the E36's passenger side stopped working, thus why I have to reach for the inside door handle to let my friends in ).

I do a lot of mounting driving when the weather is nice, and you can absolutely just feel the width of the E92, whereas you can carve the hell out of those roads due how much more narrow it is. And the E36 is a really playful car too so that helps.

[Mark's M]

Originally Posted by Nantucket

Wouldn't you have to add the M Performace Edition to the price of the M235i to get up to a price of $65k CDN for a fully loaded M235i in Canada?

Sorry. My bad and you're right. I've been playing with the configurator for an xDrive version. The RWD fully loaded stickers at $61, the x is $64 and change. So maybe the M2 will come in at $70ish - fully loaded of course. Wow, you've saved me lots of money lol!! I adjusted my figures in the original post, thanks!!

[Adem1534]

Why am I starting to feel like a 52k base price is something we won't get.

I don't know what it is that makes me feel this way, but I am prepared to be dissapointed.

[W///]

Originally Posted by Adem1534

Why am I starting to feel like a 52k base price is something we won't get.

I don't know what it is that makes me feel this way, but I am prepared to be dissapointed.

I'm opposite. The more I think about it, the more I'm certain it'll be lower 50s. Hell look at Porsche releasing the GT4 which I thought would be 100k all day for $85k.

The less parts we get that is expensive, the cheaper it should start. I'm really onboard with $52k starting MSRP and just adding metallic paint and call it a day.

[Adem1534]

Originally Posted by W///

I'm opposite. The more I think about it, the more I'm certain it'll be lower 50s. Hell look at Porsche releasing the GT4 which I thought would be 100k all day for $85k.

The less parts we get that is expensive, the cheaper it should start. I'm really onboard with $52k starting MSRP and just adding metallic paint and call it a day.

Gosh, that would be sooooo nice. This is my first ///M car, and I'm young.

I'm the EXACT demographic that BMW is trying to pull into the ///M brand...

and here I am... nervous about a couple thousand dollars here and there...

When it comes to targeting me (the intended target), thousands matter.



Otherwise: 2016 Mustang GT here I come. I hope not. M2 is the perfect size, stigma, and performance. If BMW loses me, it's a sign they're going to lose a lot.

[W///]

Originally Posted by Adem1534

Gosh, that would be sooooo nice. This is my first ///M car, and I'm young.

I'm the EXACT demographic that BMW is trying to pull into the ///M brand...

and here I am... nervous about a couple thousand dollars here and there...

When it comes to targeting me (the intended target), thousands matter.



Otherwise: 2016 Mustang GT here I come. I hope not. M2 is the perfect size, stigma, and performance. If BMW loses me, it's a sign they're going to lose a lot.

If you look at all the big 3 German cars, so A3/S3, CLA and 2 series, they're priced right next to each other.

The base models all start right at $30k. Step up to the M235i and S3 and you are talking low to mid 40k. Step up to the CLA45AMG, which is a full blown AMG car (unlike the S3 and M235i) and you are at $49k.

I just can't see BMW coming out and then pricing their cars at something ridiculous like $55k+ starting. And considering there won't be thing like a full blown S engine, of potentially CF, then I'm even less worried about it.

As far as I'm concerned, I just don't see anything else that could match what I'm personally looking for in the next car that fits as well as the M2. So it's pretty much up to BMW to do something really dumb to lose me.

P.S. I'm really looking at just metallic paint as literally my only option haha. I love that idea

[J\\\Wright]

Unfortunately I have a very tight window I'm trying to fit in. This will be the last car I purchase for a while for myself, as I have a daughter I'll be buying for in a few years. I will have to have some creature comforts to appease the wife too. I'm looking for smaller (E46ish), light (as much as we can hope for), relatively quick, and somewhat raw. Not holding my breath on the perfect combo of these just yet.

[SW19]

Originally Posted by Mark's M

Sorry. My bad and you're right. I've been playing with the configurator for an xDrive version. The RWD fully loaded stickers at $61, the x is $64 and change. So maybe the M2 will come in at $70ish - fully loaded of course. Wow, you've saved me lots of money lol!! I adjusted my figures in the original post, thanks!!

No problem.My estimate for a fully loaded M2 in Canada is very close to yours.I said in an earlier thread that a fully loaded M2 in Canada would probably be around $72K CDN.Your numbers are probably correct,$10k more than a fully loaded RWD M235i sounds like the right number for a fully loaded M2 in Canada.

[auf Deutsch]

Originally Posted by W///

A Cayman S would be the minimum for me. I just couldn't stomach the $85k price tag

I just priced out an S with the $800 sport seats as the only option, came out to $65,595. On a 30 month, 10k miles/year lease=$1000 per month. Basically F8x territory. You trade massive power for neutral balance and superb handling.

The base Cayman was $870 per month, probably more on par with an M2 payment.

[Cyberdemon]

A well optioned 235 is over $50k already, add in the M performance LSD and you're already pretty much at the ~$55k mark, yet so many people assume that is a deal breaker in price, when in reality it's pretty much spot on.

This will be the highest tier model of a 2 series they already sell VERY few of. Trying to compare it to a great deal on a stripper M3 is pointless. You would save a similar $4k+ by doing ED on an M2.

Assuming BMW packages the M2 like they do the rest of the M line, you can expect most of the packages (tech, premium, etc) will be standard and that there will only be one or two packages available plus a few options. It's very reasonable for this car to fetch over $60k when a realistic selling price for a "Basic" M4 with leather and a DCT is already @ $70k.

Also if your strategy is saying "this is too expensive, I'm going to buy a MORE expensive M3" then BMW loves you as a customer...because you just gave them even more money based on your "too expensive" concerns. Reverse Psychology?

[s3baman]

Originally Posted by Adem1534

Gosh, that would be sooooo nice. This is my first ///M car, and I'm young.

I'm the EXACT demographic that BMW is trying to pull into the ///M brand...

and here I am... nervous about a couple thousand dollars here and there...

When it comes to targeting me (the intended target), thousands matter.



Otherwise: 2016 Mustang GT here I come. I hope not. M2 is the perfect size, stigma, and performance. If BMW loses me, it's a sign they're going to lose a lot.

We have a lot in common I see. Young, passionate, folks that want to be a part of the brand. I do wish though that we at least the power dome and the CFR. I'd hope that cloth seats are available and that heated steering wheel and seats are offered as a option ONLY, I want to car to be as light as possible

[Jadar]

Originally Posted by auf Deutsche

"We expect the M2 to be significantly lighter than the M235i". More like marginally lighter, and that $55k base is a tad high.

I agree. It is a tad high! One would wonder how many people would look to cars like the 2016 Shelby GT350 for an MSRP $52,000. That is going to be a lot of car for that price. Not as refined or luxurious. But it will bring a lot to the rave nonetheless.

[dmboone25]

Originally Posted by W///

A used Cayman would be a great buy IMO. I'm a huge fan of those cars, even more so than the new 991's out there. They have an awesome interior, look absolutely gorgeous, and are just so much fun to drive. They are just pretty pricey new.

Personally, I want my next car to be a turbo (not counting GT4) just to have something different to the S65. Don't get me wrong, the F80 feels smaller than it really is, but to me it was night and day. Keep in mind that I daily an E36 M3, so that's the perfect size for me. I feel like the E92 is already too big, so the F80 is going even further in the wrong direction.

Next time you are in your car, try my very scientific test (that was sarcasm ). In my E36, if I stretched far enough from the driver seat, I could touch the outside of the passenger door. On my E92, I can at least touch the top of the door panel. On the F80, it was a swing and a miss. Don't even think I could even grab the door handle. The M235i I test drove was more in between my E36 and E92, which is great to see

Is it important? Nah, not really haha. We do have central door locks (well the E36's passenger side stopped working, thus why I have to reach for the inside door handle to let my friends in ).

I do a lot of mounting driving when the weather is nice, and you can absolutely just feel the width of the E92, whereas you can carve the hell out of those roads due how much more narrow it is. And the E36 is a really playful car too so that helps.

Non-scientific tests are indeed the best, because they make the most sense to US and that's all that matters.

I am in the process of setting up a test drive for the F80, so I am going to drive my car and the M3 back to back to try and see how I like the bigger, real ///M.

I plan to try your test when it's time to go home.

[Dinosoar]

Originally Posted by Bemo

$55k starting price is crazy! That's an M3/4 ED Invoice territory! Good luck convincing us to pay this much, BMW. You'll need it!

Don't disagree at all, but all of BMW's starting prices are crazy...no matter the Series, no matter the M car. It's been a big leap for me to say I'm back into BMWs, but it hinges squarely on the fact that one is okay paying more than one should for an otherwise great car.

[Reedomn]

Originally Posted by Adem1534

Gosh, that would be sooooo nice. This is my first ///M car, and I'm young.

I'm the EXACT demographic that BMW is trying to pull into the ///M brand...

and here I am... nervous about a couple thousand dollars here and there...

When it comes to targeting me (the intended target), thousands matter.



Otherwise: 2016 Mustang GT here I come. I hope not. M2 is the perfect size, stigma, and performance. If BMW loses me, it's a sign they're going to lose a lot.

If you want in to the M brand and a few thousand dollars matter, get a nice E46M for 20k or maybe a e9XM for 35k or hell even find an awesome 1M for low 50's....take it from someone who's not "young", buy a sweet used M car and save a bunch of money. I have owned many M cars and bought only one brand new. It depreciated $40k in 5 years.
I say all this and I am on the waiting list for an M2. But I'm older and can afford it...

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by Reedomn

If you want in to the M brand and a few thousand dollars matter, get a nice E46M for 20k or maybe a e9XM for 35k or hell even find an awesome 1M for low 50's....take it from someone who's not "young", buy a sweet used M car and save a bunch of money. I have owned many M cars and bought only one brand new. It depreciated $40k in 5 years.
I say all this and I am on the waiting list for an M2. But I'm older and can afford it...

That makes sense only if you can do some maintenance on your own. Otherwise you want an M w/wrnty. BMW's are not reliable and M repairs is music to mechanic's ears.

[gaijin]

Who ever said buying cars and enjoying them (as in driving) will ever net a long term investment. If it's money you want in the bank, then put your money in one. Otherwise, buy whatever car you want and can afford (the ownership experience that comes along with it). Enjoy it!

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Smooth 330i

BMW's are not reliable

Hm, that's quite a bold statement. True that no car manufacturer can claim building perfect cars. But if (engine) reliability issues occur, knowing what the user did to the car (tuned or still stock ?) and the way (s)he drives/treats/handles it, must also be part of the equation.

[Adem1534]

Originally Posted by Reedomn

If you want in to the M brand and a few thousand dollars matter, get a nice E46M for 20k or maybe a e9XM for 35k or hell even find an awesome 1M for low 50's....take it from someone who's not "young", buy a sweet used M car and save a bunch of money. I have owned many M cars and bought only one brand new. It depreciated $40k in 5 years.
I say all this and I am on the waiting list for an M2. But I'm older and can afford it...

I can afford it, I just would also like to save money right now because I want to save up for much bigger things in the future. But cars are my passion. So it's a conflict of interest, hence why I care so much about the price. Although when it comes down to it, it isn't that much of an issue. I plan on having this car as my daily driver for years.

[Mavus]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Hm, that's quite a bold statement. True that no car manufacturer can claim building perfect cars. But if (engine) reliability issues occur, knowing what the user did to the car (tuned or still stock ?) and the way (s)he drives/treats/handles it, must also be part of the equation.

Mods don't even count in my equation. I am referring to stock cars. We know all manufacturers are cost cutting and streamlining like never before. Last year 64 million (!!) cars were recalled. BMW engineering is great but engineers don't build cars, bean counters do!!

[abp689]

Originally Posted by W///

Correct. The M3 is still on my list, but it's just too big to be a car for just me, and too small to be practical (2 big dogs)



While some people while def jump at a base Cayman, I probably wouldn't. A Cayman S would be the minimum for me. After driving an M235i (8AT), the Cayman S I drove right after felt a little slow to me in every day driving situation due to the torque of the N55. It did sound ridiculously good with their performance exhaust though. I just couldn't stomach the $85k price tag

Wow! I went easy on the build and came up with ~$57. But that was a stripper. I haven't driven one for a few years. Tried out a 996 TT a few weeks back. Great car great value but didn't care for the interior.