[selmeralto]

Originally Posted by daimeow

Yes, selmeralto. I love clean and clear sound myself. So I would love to eliminate the "hiss" or any unreasonable frequency hikes. The Eton has an edge there... Do you think there will be something that fits my category?

I don't know the field well enough to recommend one particular system over another. There is an interesting thread at http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1354338 but that solution will cost you lots more than the speaker replacement and ASD removal I've found satisfying. And note that hiss problems have a nasty way of insinuating themselves into different audio setups. So proceed with caution. Good luck.

[BMWZ4]

I have a question; I recently replaced the rear deck speakers with the recommended JL's - sound is improved, no question. Now when I hit the start button to start the car, I hear a not-too-loud single pop that comes from the rear right deck speaker.

Definitely wasn't there with the OEM HK's...only after I installed the JL's. Everything is working as I would expect after the "pop" sound i.e. no distortion, clear sound etc.

Thanks for reading.

[BEM-S4]

Well - just broke down and ordered a set from Bavsound. Actually I started by ordering the JLs but got really concerned that mounting in a convertible would be problematic at best and cancelled the order. Since the rears are panel mounted on the side not drop in like the coupe they're recessed like the front. I figured MAYBE Eton front and back would work but since they're grey market and I wasn't getting straight from the source or able to verify fit easily, maybe best to explore other options. If I had the coupe I'd call it a day with the Eton / JL combo for $350 but once we get into $500+ for something I'm not 100% sure would work with the hassle of international returns, felt much more comfortable having a single throat to choke in the U.S. Stay tuned, review coming shortly.

I will say so far I have been very impressed with the level of service. CEO and I were emailing back and forth and I asked something kind of technical about convertible vs coupe and the head of engineering called me to talk about anything and everything I've ever wanted to know about car audio.

[jamieattfield]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

Well - just broke down and ordered a set from Bavsound. Actually I started by ordering the JLs but got really concerned that mounting in a convertible would be problematic at best and cancelled the order. Since the rears are panel mounted on the side not drop in like the coupe they're recessed like the front. I figured MAYBE Eton front and back would work but since they're grey market and I wasn't getting straight from the source or able to verify fit easily, maybe best to explore other options. If I had the coupe I'd call it a day with the Eton / JL combo for $350 but once we get into $500+ for something I'm not 100% sure would work with the hassle of international returns, felt much more comfortable having a single throat to choke in the U.S. Stay tuned, review coming shortly.

I will say so far I have been very impressed with the level of service. CEO and I were emailing back and forth and I asked something kind of technical about convertible vs coupe and the head of engineering called me to talk about anything and everything I've ever wanted to know about car audio.

Wonderful thread with a plethora of inspiring ideas! Thank you to all who contributed to this. I'll be changing our my rear deck speakers and doing the center delete in the next couple of weeks. I'm a die hard audiophile, with a 5.1 ribbon surround sound setup at home. I'm obsessed with getting good sound without spending too much money.

I wanted to add another tip to this thread, one that is based on getting the best quality signal into our car's system. One thing I always find surprising is how important your source and DAC is in delivering pristine quality audio. I use Tidal for streaming but also Spotify all sent on their highest setting. I recently acquired an Audioquest Dragonfly Black and Jitterbug. I use this in my car fed from my iPhone 7 Plus into a USB camera adapter then via the Aux input. The sound is DRAMATICALLY improved on over the simple lightning connector. Bypassing the DAC In the car is a path to audio nirvana. Bass is significantly tighter, instrument separation is improved, treble is more fluid and less grating. Midrange and timbre are also much smoother and more natural. You loose some of the car functions with this setup such as skip from the dash etc. but since we're looking for the ultimate in sound, I feel this is a worthy sacrifice.

If anyone is interested I can provide links to the items I mentioned. Cheers and happy listening!

[jordantii]

I did the center delete and it has made the stated improvements. As a past recording engineer I have an advantage of listening to the material that I recorded and mixed. I have an intimate understanding of what it should sound like. For me car audio is a different experience. I am not looking for a sound stage or precision in placement. What I am looking for is impact. Do the kick and snare hit like they are supposed to? Is the vocal forward where it's supposed to be? Is the bass supporting the rhythm section under the kick etc. And finally does the material communicate what the artist intended.

Also, my recordings were all done on analog equipment and only saw the ADC when we would go to mastering. And when we would master we would spend hours doing ADC shoot outs along with electronics shoot outs. do we output through tubes or transformers?? We would do this on a song by song basis. It got very crazy at times!

And one last thing, if you are not familiar with the source material you really have no idea what it's supposed to sound like. So that being said you all sould just look and listen for what you want it to sound like. I used to argue with my audiophile friends that the equipment we used to make the recordings they were listening to was not as high end as the stuff they were using to reproduce the audio. So it's very subjective.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by jordantii

I did the center delete and it has made the stated improvements. As a past recording engineer I have an advantage of listening to the material that I recorded and mixed. I have an intimate understanding of what it should sound like. For me car audio is a different experience. I am not looking for a sound stage or precision in placement. What I am looking for is impact. Do the kick and snare hit like they are supposed to? Is the vocal forward where it's supposed to be? Is the bass supporting the rhythm section under the kick etc. And finally does the material communicate what the artist intended.

Also, my recordings were all done on analog equipment and only saw the ADC when we would go to mastering. And when we would master we would spend hours doing ADC shoot outs along with electronics shoot outs. do we output through tubes or transformers?? We would do this on a song by song basis. It got very crazy at times!

And one last thing, if you are not familiar with the source material you really have no idea what it's supposed to sound like. So that being said you all sould just look and listen for what you want it to sound like. I used to argue with my audiophile friends that the equipment we used to make the recordings they were listening to was not as high end as the stuff they were using to reproduce the audio. So it's very subjective.

That's all very good information. As someone who has spent time in recording studios and very high end listening rooms - I'll also add that getting a car to sound "like it should" can be a VERY expensive losing battle. Often times best to cap the budget around $1K to get things livable and call it a day. After that you're tossing big dollars at minimal gains, analogous to spending thousands to shave ounces once you start looking at higher end road bikes for example.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by jordantii

I did the center delete and it has made the stated improvements. As a past recording engineer I have an advantage of listening to the material that I recorded and mixed. I have an intimate understanding of what it should sound like. For me car audio is a different experience. I am not looking for a sound stage or precision in placement. What I am looking for is impact. Do the kick and snare hit like they are supposed to? Is the vocal forward where it's supposed to be? Is the bass supporting the rhythm section under the kick etc. And finally does the material communicate what the artist intended.

Also, my recordings were all done on analog equipment and only saw the ADC when we would go to mastering. And when we would master we would spend hours doing ADC shoot outs along with electronics shoot outs. do we output through tubes or transformers?? We would do this on a song by song basis. It got very crazy at times!

And one last thing, if you are not familiar with the source material you really have no idea what it's supposed to sound like. So that being said you all sould just look and listen for what you want it to sound like. I used to argue with my audiophile friends that the equipment we used to make the recordings they were listening to was not as high end as the stuff they were using to reproduce the audio. So it's very subjective.

That's all very good information. As someone who has spent time in recording studios and very high end listening rooms - I'll also add that getting a car to sound "like it should" can be a VERY expensive losing battle. Often times best to cap the budget around $1K to get things livable and call it a day. After that you're tossing big dollars at minimal gains, analogous to spending thousands to shave ounces once you start looking at higher end road bikes for example.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by jamieattfield

One thing I always find surprising is how important your source and DAC is in delivering pristine quality audio. I use Tidal for streaming but also Spotify all sent on their highest setting. I recently acquired an Audioquest Dragonfly Black and Jitterbug. I use this in my car fed from my iPhone 7 Plus into a USB camera adapter then via the Aux input. The sound is DRAMATICALLY improved on over the simple lightning connector. Bypassing the DAC In the car is a path to audio nirvana. Bass is significantly tighter, instrument separation is improved, treble is more fluid and less grating. Midrange and timbre are also much smoother and more natural. You loose some of the car functions with this setup such as skip from the dash etc. but since we're looking for the ultimate in sound, I feel this is a worthy sacrifice.

Yes; a number of us have been touting the Aux-In jack and a hi-res DMP as the best source for the 2 Series audio for many moons. I personally run a Fiio X3v2, which has a dedicated Line Out, can play DSP files, and uses the Wolfson WM8740, the same DAC chip as many recent Arcam and Rotel CD players. It is stuffed with CD-quality AIFF files (I run a SSD-modified Mac Mini as a music server at home). It makes all the difference.

[jamieattfield]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Yes; a number of us have been touting the Aux-In jack and a hi-res DMP as the best source for the 2 Series audio for many moons. I personally run a Fiio X3v2, which has a dedicated Line Out, can play DSP files, and uses the Wolfson WM8740, the same DAC chip as many recent Arcam and Rotel CD players. It is stuffed with CD-quality AIFF files (I run a SSD-modified Mac Mini as a music server at home). It makes all the difference.

That's great. I figured it'd been touch on at some point. I've heard great things about the fiio. Love this hobby

[jordantii]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

That's all very good information. As someone who has spent time in recording studios and very high end listening rooms - I'll also add that getting a car to sound "like it should" can be a VERY expensive losing battle. Often times best to cap the budget around $1K to get things livable and call it a day. After that you're tossing big dollars at minimal gains, analogous to spending thousands to shave ounces once you start looking at higher end road bikes for example.

Agree 100% with this. Most have no idea what it "should" shound like. So livable/enjoyable really should be the goal.

[SlickShift]

I unplugged/removed the center speaker this morning and the improvement is surely noticeable (new paperweight on the work bench!). I also pulled the trigger on the JL rear speakers. I figured that's a cheap and simple DIY for "fixing" the HK audio. If I'm still itching to improve the quality I'll definitely get the Eton speakers. Oh! And I ordered the door weather stripping. I gotta say this is the first time I've gotten a bimmer and the first mods weren't to add power or mechanical sound! HA!

[Beartato]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Yes; a number of us have been touting the Aux-In jack and a hi-res DMP as the best source for the 2 Series audio for many moons. I personally run a Fiio X3v2, which has a dedicated Line Out, can play DSP files, and uses the Wolfson WM8740, the same DAC chip as many recent Arcam and Rotel CD players. It is stuffed with CD-quality AIFF files (I run a SSD-modified Mac Mini as a music server at home). It makes all the difference.

I have an X3 as well, might need to try this.

[Vyruz Reaper]

where is everyone in the states buying their speakers from? I can find them for the prices listed (almost double) or they are out of stock.

[selmeralto]

Originally Posted by Vyruz Reaper

where is everyone in the states buying their speakers from? I can find them for the prices listed (almost double) or they are out of stock.

Several members have gotten the Etons at Extreme Audio in Germany. Here is their contact address: kontakt@extremeaudio.de .

For the JL Audio speakers try Crutchfield.

[daimeow]

I have the original head unit and HK amp with the JL+Eton speakers mods. When I play flac files with the h.u., it is no different from mp3 files.

I wonder if I can benefit from a high end music player if it has to go through the aux input and the stupid HK DSP?

[adema24]

Originally Posted by Vyruz Reaper

where is everyone in the states buying their speakers from? I can find them for the prices listed (almost double) or they are out of stock.

I have bought stuff from mobile sound works. Much cheaper than crutchfield.

[adema24]

Originally Posted by daimeow

I have the original head unit and HK amp with the JL+Eton speakers mods. When I play flac files with the h.u., it is no different from mp3 files.

I wonder if I can benefit from a high end music player if it has to go through the aux input and the stupid HK DSP?

Gotta go through the auxiliary input. I left my Sony NW-ZX2 at home and noticed a massive difference in quality playing 320kps MP3 files through the iPhone and USB port.

[selmeralto]

Originally Posted by adema24

I have bought stuff from mobile sound works. Much cheaper than crutchfield.

Good suggestion: they're listed at $94.95 right now.

[daimeow]

Originally Posted by adema24

Gotta go through the auxiliary input. I left my Sony NW-ZX2 at home and noticed a massive difference in quality playing 320kps MP3 files through the iPhone and USB port.

NWZX2 is a player itself. What do you need iphone or USB for?

[adema24]

Originally Posted by daimeow

NWZX2 is a player itself. What do you need iphone or USB for?

Are you talking about saving the music files to the head unit hard drive? I don't have nav, so I can't do that.

[daimeow]

Originally Posted by adema24

Are you talking about saving the music files to the head unit hard drive? I don't have nav, so I can't do that.

No. I play from a USB memory stick for all my mp3, mp4, wav and flac files. So the head unit is my music player. I don't need an iphone or ipod or anything to play music files. Let's call this the fully digital way of playing a file.

You play from an external music player (e.g. your Sony) through the aux input. Since the aux input jack is analogue, I will call this the analogue way of playing a file.

Now, please correct me if I am wrong. You are suggesting that an external player (connected via aux) can produce better quality music even if the head unit, amp and speakers are the same.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by daimeow

No. I play from a USB memory stick for all my mp3, mp4, wav and flac files. So the head unit is my music player. I don't need an iphone or ipod or anything to play music files. Let's call this the fully digital way of playing a file.

You play from an external music player (e.g. your Sony) through the aux input. Since the aux input jack is analogue, I will call this the analogue way of playing a file.

Now, please correct me if I am wrong. You are suggesting that an external player (connected via aux) can produce better quality music even if the head unit, amp and speakers are the same.

Here's the conundrum with using the USB input: Only BMW and the maker of the HU know what happens inside the HU. We already know that the HU downconverts CDs burned within the HU to 256kb for the 20GB HDD-equipped cars with the Technology Package. This is done to increase storage space on the HDD. Several of us have suspected that the CD player's output is compressed somewhat as well -- and I've definitely noticed jitter issues with it. We also don't know how the DAC operates, as well as what it is. It could be a dedicated chip, but it could also be software-based -- and based on the low computing power of iDrive, it's likely only an adequate one.

By replacing what's unknown with what is known -- and connecting what is known with the analog Aux In jack, which appears to operate with a minimum of intrusion from the HU (but not the DSP in the outboard amp) -- we are eliminating what, to my ears and several others', is some dubious digital signal processing. The NBT and EVO HUs in our cars are simply not very capable of high fidelity, particularly regarding nascent current strength -- even its line-level output has been proven to be significantly noisier than older BMW HUs.