[Overpar56]

Photos at NAIAS.
http://www.autoblog.com/photos/2014-...-detroit-2014/

Nice to see that they kept the interior door pulls in the same place. . Console looks better. Cup holders (what most Americans base their auto purchases on) move forward (no Big Gulps or Starbucks Venti will fit).

It'll be nice to see how the 235i will stack up next to the Audi S3. Roughly the same HP and torque.

[SHKDOWN]

Honestly? I can't wait to see one in person. I love the styling of the 1er, obviously...or I wouldn't have purchased one. Love the handling, "tossibility." The 1er is really a car that is like being able to drive a body suit... You all know. You bought them, too.

I'll reserve judgment on the 2er until I can gawk at it and take it for a ride.

I was not impressed at first...only b/c I'm used to the lines/look of the 1er. But, I think that once people start buying, and driving, and modifying, and tracking the 2...it's going to turn out to be a hot looker and driver.

Especially looking forward to pics posted with some fat wheels/tires...all of it!

[Qunadry]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

just saw this on the BMW website today.

the rendering looks bloated as hell compared to the 1er! LOL

The new 2 looks more like the 2007 335i I owned before my 135i. The look and performance of the 135i far exceeded the 335i. All new BMW's continue to get larger and larger. I expect the 2012-2013 135i to become a sought after car.

[shah269]

Excuse me sir...but do you have $50k i can barrow to buy the new BMW....
$50k…for the new 235i…..YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!
Who would drop that kind of money on that car? In this economy?
http://jalopnik.com/the-2015-bmw-m23...ess-1500332266

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by shah269

Excuse me sir...but do you have $50k i can barrow to buy the new BMW....
$50k…for the new 235i…..YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!
Who would drop that kind of money on that car? In this economy?
http://jalopnik.com/the-2015-bmw-m23...ess-1500332266

FYI my 135is was $50k MSRP....so the M235 pricing is fine. gotta pay to play!! these were never meant to be cheap cars

[shah269]

What!
Well thank god for CPO!
And "never meant to be cheap cars" i don't know.....they sure took lots of short cuts.
VW's have better interiors for half the price!
Thanks but no thanks! $50k......really....$50k....HA!

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by shah269

What!
Well thank god for CPO!
And "never meant to be cheap cars" i don't know.....they sure took lots of short cuts.
VW's have better interiors for half the price!
Thanks but no thanks! $50k......really....$50k....HA!

I paid $40k for my last A3 quattro in 2011 and it had a 4 banger. Cars are expensive.....reality check to you, man!

[shah269]

Crap...I think I'm getting old...just price out a Gti....ok ok...i'm freaking getting old!

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by shah269

Crap...I think I'm getting old...just price out a Gti....ok ok...i'm freaking getting old!

if you go look at GTIs, most of them are priced between $30k and $35k on the dealer lots. you might be getting old, yo! lol

[dcaron9999]

This is the main reason why I buy pre-owned euro cars (BMW and Audi). I cannot justify the picking up the tab on a new car, and depreciation on new cars when driven off the lot.

You got to be a decent DIY, and/or have a decent repair/maintenance budget gathered up, and do your homework before you take a dive though.

[Overpar56]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

if you go look at GTIs, most of them are priced between $30k and $35k on the dealer lots. you might be getting old, yo! lol

The R will be 35ish or higher. Nice, but it's still a Golf. Same platform as the new TT I believe.

[Overpar56]

Did they drop the DCT on the M235i? So far all I read was 6M or 8 speed auto.

[135iUSN]

its a smaller 4er..

[CAVU]

Originally Posted by Overpar56

Did they drop the DCT on the M235i? So far all I read was 6M or 8 speed auto.

I was wondering the same thing. Just feeds the conspiracy theorist in me and fuels my reliability/durability concerns about the DCT.

[Overpar56]

Originally Posted by RickMsport

I was wondering the same thing. Just feeds the conspiracy theorist in me and fuels my reliability/durability concerns about the DCT.

My guess (and Car and Driver rumor) is if they release a M2 the DCT will be there. The M3/4 still have the 7 Speed DCT and they're pushing 400+ HP/torque so a 360+ HP M2 will handle it.

DCT vs torque convertor. Had I had that option with the 135 I would have went with the 6 speed manual even though my old Speed 6 wore out my clutch foot.

Where are you located in OH RickMsport.?

[Wakka]

When im finally sick of the 1 ill just get a cayman. The 2 just isnt what im looking for.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by RickMsport

I was wondering the same thing. Just feeds the conspiracy theorist in me and fuels my reliability/durability concerns about the DCT.

the reason they use an 8 speed ZF is not primarily because of reliability, although the maintenance may represent a portion of the reason. The primary reasons they use a torque converted ZF box instead of the superior DCT is:

1) Cost (the ZF autoboxes are significantly cheaper)
2) The majority of Autobox drivers can't tell the difference

The 'enthusiast' population who CAN discern the differences represent a very small portion of the buying population. For most regular people; an 8 speed ZF and a DCT are just "automatic transmissions".

[CGMike]

I just built a 135is and a 235Msport with the same packages/options and the 135is was just about $1000 more than the 235M.

[Overpar56]

Originally Posted by CGMike

I just built a 135is and a 235Msport with the same packages/options and the 135is was just about $1000 more than the 235M.

Interesting.

Weren't a lot of 135is goodies port installed?

[CAVU]

Originally Posted by IEDEI

the reason they use an 8 speed ZF is not primarily because of reliability, although the maintenance may represent a portion of the reason. The primary reasons they use a torque converted ZF box instead of the superior DCT is:

1) Cost (the ZF autoboxes are significantly cheaper)
2) The majority of Autobox drivers can't tell the difference

The 'enthusiast' population who CAN discern the differences represent a very small portion of the buying population. For most regular people; an 8 speed ZF and a DCT are just "automatic transmissions".

If the DCT wouldn't have been an option, I would have stuck with the 6MT. The technology and performance of the DCT is what drew me to it, and I'm enjoying it immensely. Still, I'm 80/20 leaning in favor of the 6MT vs. DCT next time around, but if the DCT isn't even offered, then I'll definitely get the 6MT.

Originally Posted by Overpar56

Where are you located in OH RickMsport.?

I'm in West Chester, just north of Cincinnati. Lots of great country roads in my backyard!

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by RickMsport

If the DCT wouldn't have been an option, I would have stuck with the 6MT. The technology and performance of the DCT is what drew me to it, and I'm enjoying it immensely. Still, I'm 80/20 leaning in favor of the 6MT vs. DCT next time around, but if the DCT isn't even offered, then I'll definitely get the 6MT.

oh definitely. i'm a HUGE fan of dual clutch gearboxes. my last A3 quattro had an S-Tronic (DSG) dual clutch gearbox and it was fantastic......maybe the favourite part of my car.....although i decided to go back to a manual this time----mainly because i drive a lot every day and needed more physical stimulation and involvement.

overall though, i definitely think the dual clutch gearbox is the way forward. That being said, i'm sort of disturbed at how companies like BMW are putting in very boring-ass 8 speed automatics and trying to sell them off as similar to DCTs.....they are not. They are quick, but artificially. They don't really have a system as intricate and as thorough as a proper dual clutch gearbox.

[gregthegr8]

Originally Posted by CGMike

I just built a 135is and a 235Msport with the same packages/options and the 135is was just about $1000 more than the 235M.

Originally Posted by Overpar56

Interesting.

Weren't a lot of 135is goodies port installed?

I priced out a new M235 with the same options as my 135is and it was about $1,000 more also. The only real difference of note is that the 135is has the PE and the M235 would not, so factor that in. But, the real thing to keep in mind is you can't really go off the MSRP on the 135is because even a year ago when I got mine, you could easily get $4-5k off sticker.

There are actually still some brand new ones around now, too, and dealers are taking $8-9k off sticker on them. And that's their advertised price. I imagine it will be awhile before they start taking large discounts off the M235s and knowing BMW dealers, they may even try to charge over MSRP in the beginning with the first few they get. Point is, it's not exactly apples to apples when you figure what you'd actually pay out the door, though it's essentially the same N55 engine with nearly identical PPK tune.