[3.0L]

Here we go again, only at the Mercedes Benz AMG crowd. Heh!

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/08/05/m...-sport-report/

[amgrsgt]

Yup they're all doing it, BMW has M performance, Cadillac has the V-Sport line, Audi S, Mercedes has AMG Sport, Lexus has F Sport

[uberspeed]

Originally Posted by amgrsgt

Yup they're all doing it, BMW has M performance, Cadillac has the V-Sport line, Audi S, Mercedes has AMG Sport, Lexus has F Sport

Makes sense to fill the gaps and have a full portfolio of offerings. BMW has base, Sport Line, M Sport, M Performance and full M. BMW is going "downstream" with FWD offerings as well, which we may bemoan but it'll probably make them oodles which allows them to offer us more niche models (hopefully).

[BMW335iOn18s]

The thing is, BMW started the whole idea of M sport back in the E30 days....this is nothing new. Although we haven't had M-sport models consistently since then, we've had '94 325i M-technics, 99 M-technic E36 328i coupes, ZHPs, 2003 540i M-sports, etc. The only thing that has changed is that since 2009ish, M-sport has been consistently available, and on nearly every model.

[Kiwi]

A front wheel drive M Sport what a joke that would be.

[MrBucket]

Originally Posted by BMW335iOn18s

The thing is, BMW started the whole idea of M sport back in the E30 days....this is nothing new. Although we haven't had M-sport models consistently since then, we've had '94 325i M-technics, 99 M-technic E36 328i coupes, ZHPs, 2003 540i M-sports, etc. The only thing that has changed is that since 2009ish, M-sport has been consistently available, and on nearly every model.

A lot of the M-Sport stuff is just cosmetic though. At least for the current offerings.

[BMW335iOn18s]

Originally Posted by MrBucket

A lot of the M-Sport stuff is just cosmetic though. At least for the current offerings.

It always has been...

M-sport has always been a body kit, steering wheel, sport seats, handbrake, "M" wheels, and a stiffer suspension (non-Xi).

[Kiwi]

Originally Posted by MrBucket

A lot of the M-Sport stuff is just cosmetic though. At least for the current offerings.

It's a rear wheel drive sports car not a front drive rubbish. They are building these only because of China and I for one is getting sick of the bowing going on to these communists.

[335BOY]

Originally Posted by Kiwi

It's a rear wheel drive sports car not a front drive rubbish. They are building these only because of China and I for one is getting sick of the bowing going on to these communists.

Wow. Why wouldn't the build a car that they can sell millions of in a particular market? It is a business after all.

[MrBucket]

Originally Posted by BMW335iOn18s

It always has been...

M-sport has always been a body kit, steering wheel, sport seats, handbrake, "M" wheels, and a stiffer suspension (non-Xi).

I was going more on the part where you mentioned the ZHP which was a bit more than just cosmetic stuff

[Alpine F31]

Originally Posted by BMW335iOn18s

It always has been...

M-sport has always been a body kit, steering wheel, sport seats, handbrake, "M" wheels, and a stiffer suspension (non-Xi).

You're not wrong, however my F30 M Sport is faster than a non M Sport because it is limited to 155 mph top speed vs. 130 mph for the luxury line and modern line version. The sport line is also limited to 155. So in this case at least, the M Sport actually does offer more than just cosmetics. It's also
10 mm lower and has more aggressive brake pads than the non M Sport F30.

[MG 228i]

Don't forget the M Sport Brakes and Suspension!

[BMW335iOn18s]

Originally Posted by Alpine F31

You're not wrong, however my F30 M Sport is faster than a non M Sport because it is limited to 155 mph top speed vs. 130 mph for the luxury line and modern line version. The sport line is also limited to 155. So in this case at least, the M Sport actually does offer more than just cosmetics. It's also
10 mm lower and has more aggressive brake pads than the non M Sport F30.

Sure, but you could get that with a sport line, or sport package (e46/e90 days).

The ZHP was a U.S. only model with some alpina cams if I remember correctly.

Canadian (though Canadian cars ARE us spec) and European e46s only come with a regular m sport package, with the M-tech 1 or m-tech 2 body kit but no upgraded cams.

If anything, today's M-sport models are even more performance focused now that M-sport brakes are available and factory installed. And now we have the M performance power kit, too. Although we like to cry foul a lot, in many ways BMW really HASNT changed, and if it has, it changed for the better, IMO. We used to really get shafted as far as m-sport models and cool options back in the day, today this is still true in some minor cases but nothing like before.

[nike001]

Originally Posted by BMW335iOn18s

The thing is, BMW started the whole idea of M sport back in the E30 days....this is nothing new. Although we haven't had M-sport models consistently since then, we've had '94 325i M-technics, 99 M-technic E36 328i coupes, ZHPs, 2003 540i M-sports, etc. The only thing that has changed is that since 2009ish, M-sport has been consistently available, and on nearly every model.

In a way, yes. BMW has always been weird about their M-Sport & then the 'is' cars (e36 & e92), and then the ZHP. There was never any real definitive line it seems. It's sort of confusing on how they went about making those cars.

[BMW335iOn18s]

Originally Posted by nike001

In a way, yes. BMW has always been weird about their M-Sport & then the 'is' cars (e36 & e92), and then the ZHP. There was never any real definitive line it seems. It's sort of confusing on how they went about making those cars.

Well, actually the "is" in the e30 and e36 (328/325/323/318is) just meant it was a 2 door model. The "is" as in the E53 4.6/4.8is X5, the 335is, and Z4 35is were more along the lines of M performance models before the M performance division existed. BMW has always been building "M Performance" models, even before they called it that. The E53 X5 4.8is was pretty much the X5 M before they thought it would be okay to call it the X5 M. The pre The only "new" thing BMW is doing is FWD. Everything else has been around for a very long time.

[Cyberdemon]

Every car manufacturer will try to fill in gaps to make more margins and dazzle you with marketing letters. Just like Audi's "S-Line" trim for A cars is equivalent to the "M sport" package. Nothing new here, and BMW certainly didn't invent it.

No different then the guys driving around with "S-Line" A4's. "So it's an S4?" "No it's an A4 S Line"

"So is that an M3?" "No it's a M340i"

[Mark's M]

Originally Posted by Cyberdemon

Every car manufacturer will try to fill in gaps to make more margins and dazzle you with marketing letters. Just like Audi's "S-Line" trim for A cars is equivalent to the "M sport" package. Nothing new here, and BMW certainly didn't invent it.

No different then the guys driving around with "S-Line" A4's. "So it's an S4?" "No it's an A4 S Line"

"So is that an M3?" "No it's a M340i"

Well said. But there's still lots of confusion about "M Sport" vs the new "M Performance" cars/SAV's, especially in N.A. because we only get one of them - the M235. You got it right, many don't including some of the idiots on the MB forums. BMW, Audi and now Mercedes have actually made the differentiation between the various levels of "sport" easy, like ordering chicken wings actually:

Mild - the base car
Medium - M Sport (or Audi S-Line, MB AMG Style pkg)
Hot - M Performance (or Audi R models, MB AMG Sport)
Inferno - M (or Audi RS, Mercedes-AMG)

Everyone here agree the M235 is hot lol? Those are my thoughts. And next year, the " inferno" arrives.

I think the C450 AMG Sport will be an excellent car if the eventual owners can get over the trauma of being labelled a poseur by a heck of a lot of AMG owners who seem to be supported by the ignorance of the MB Forums admin and a moderator - who posted that stupid question on their front page and just yesterday fuelled the fire via an email encouraging forum members to continue the debate. Lol, what a classless lot some (and I mean some, not all) of those AMG owners are. And the enthusiasm level (for the brand, for the cars, for performance, etc) is woefully lacking. That whole line of AMG Sport vehicles will probably be very good and they'll fill the gap between the medium and inferno versions of their cars.

I'm actually really proud to be a BMW owner and the decorum on these Bimmerpost forums is light years ahead of the fluff at MB World. Ok, there's been a few fights on the boards and personally, I've been fairly reigned in when my passion got the best of me. But those poor people looking to buy a C450 this fall...they don't stand a chance on their forums and IMO it just isn't any fun when you can't share your brand/vehicle enthusiasm with others.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Mark's M

But those poor people looking to buy a C450 this fall...they don't stand a chance on their forums and IMO it just isn't any fun when you can't share your brand/vehicle enthusiasm with others.

Everyone over there is so overwhelmed with the U.S. plant launch quality problems, including the amazingly not yet fixed "bleeding" seats (really, not a British curse word!), misfit body parts, etc., it doesn't seem anyone will be enjoying much for quite a while.

[Mark's M]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Everyone over there is so overwhelmed with the U.S. plant launch quality problems, including the amazingly not yet fixed "bleeding" seats (really, not a British curse word!), misfit body parts, etc., it doesn't seem anyone will be enjoying much for quite a while.

Agreed totally. Was considering one (C450) but came out of the coma. I appreciated your insights over there (as did everyone else of course) but the "issues" are overwhelming and not for me. BMW's in my blood anyways, gonna keep it that way.

[midwest 340xi 6sp]

I was an eyelash away from pulling the trigger on a W205...

Very sexy car. Then I drove the m235i one last time...

[Cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by Mark's M

Mild - the base car
Medium - M Sport (or Audi S-Line, MB AMG Style pkg)
Hot - M Performance (or Audi R models, MB AMG Sport)
Inferno - M (or Audi RS, Mercedes-AMG)

Don't forget the inevitable "Solar envy" limited editions like the M3 Lime Rock, AMG Black series, etc. Some fancy paint, a small HP bump and a limited edition badge will let them squeek $10k on top of an existing car for some mods, exclusive paint colors and some "limited edition stickers".

Car companies are good at making money...the Japanese and Americans are no different.

Acura TL Type S A Spec
Mustang Mach One R Code

The more letter acronyms in your vehicle the faster it goes.

Type-R FTW

[Mark's M]

Originally Posted by Cyberdemon

Don't forget the inevitable "Solar envy" limited editions like the M3 Lime Rock, AMG Black series, etc. Some fancy paint, a small HP bump and a limited edition badge will let them squeek $10k on top of an existing car for some mods, exclusive paint colors and some "limited edition stickers".

Car companies are good at making money...the Japanese and Americans are no different.

Acura TL Type S A Spec
Mustang Mach One R Code

The more letter acronyms in your vehicle the faster it goes.

Type-R FTW

Lol!