[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by Hops128i

Well, when i search on cars.com, there are currently 4 of 676 new 230i with a manual transmission. I see much higher rates of manuals with coupes of other brands. Does bmw assume if you want a manual you're going to order it?

That's essentially it, yes. BMW makes it an option for the niche -- key word there is 'option'.

capo180 Your comment about most 2 Series being xDrive is incorrect. That is certainly the case with cars that are dealer-stocked in colder climates, but nationwide -- and globally (Hey! There's that word again!) -- it is nowhere near the majority. I've seen breakdown numbers but can't find them now ... but IIRC, the percentage is somewhere around 30 percent.

[capo180]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

That's essentially it, yes. BMW makes it an option for the niche -- key word there is 'option'.

capo180 Your comment about most 2 Series being xDrive is incorrect. That is certainly the case with cars that are dealer-stocked in colder climates, but nationwide -- and globally (Hey! There's that word again!) -- it is nowhere near the majority. I've seen breakdown numbers but can't find them now ... but IIRC, the percentage is somewhere around 30 percent.

It was more of a local comment...

[Pparana]

Originally Posted by p912guy

My M235i Convertible with MT and a few other MP goodies was in the dealer's inventory for nearly 16 months (most of it on the showroom floor) when I bought it. I preferred a MT so it was perfect for me and of course the deep discount I was able to get because they really wanted to sell it worked out well for me too. I suspect my car was a customer special order that fell through, as it was the only MT of any kind in the dealers inventory at the time and they had an assortment of 6 or 7 "M" cars (3, 4 and 6) also in inventory all AT.

That is a rare car, I cant imagine the dealer ordered a manual convertible m235i. Im not a convertible guy, but that car may change my mind as a DD.

[Pparana]

Originally Posted by crabu2

I really don't think so, and I have a feeling this is really a niche vehicle.

Price for performance is way to high for the average buyer and Americans in general like BIG.

You can get so many other cars that give similar performance, which to most American's is straight line speed, at a much better price... There's just too many cheaper offerings.. Focus, Golf, Mustang, Camero and what not. Then on top of that premium fuel is recommended... with a required minimum of 89 octane gas.

BMW also doesn't have the best reputation for reliability either. American's see BMW was a Lux brand that costs them $$$. Not just the initial cost, but ongoing. I know I did and I still have reservations on my order because of it. Ordering only reinforced it because I'm paying $$$ for options that are standard on other cars that cost half the price.

When I told one friend I ordered it.. Her 1st words out of her mouth was "I had a 330ci. Loved the car but it was in the shop to often and it costs too much to fix. I'll never own another BMW again." That's not confidence inspiring.. And I think it keeps a lot of people, that can afford them, from buying any BMW, let alone a small one.

BTW, why the heck does this little car weigh almost as much as a 7 series.. let alone a 3 series? It's bad enough we get stiffed on things like temp gauges, dip sticks, features on options that it's bigger sisters have, and what not, but to be hit with the weight too? That's just not right.

yes I would agree with most of your points, and hence why sales are low. If your focus is driving and enjoyment, the 2r in almost every trim level is a fair value. But as you said many people buy cars on numbers (hp, ext) rather than driving feel.

BMW is wofully behind the other manufactures in us market on options pricing and grouping.

When I was shopping for my wife last year, she wanted a crossover, we looked at x3, but redesign was not out yet, she liked x1 but with all the options it was a lot for the car. We ended up getting a lexus nx.

If you take her as an example, driving dynamics is not the first on her list, and arguably anyone buying a fwd crossover. The price, and quality won out on the Lexus.

With the end of cheap money factors and lease residuals being subsidized by the manufacturers, I think all sales will fall, BMW in particular has more exposure than most, probably followed by Mercedes.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by capo180

It was more of a local comment...

Repeat after me: Think globally. Again: Globally. And once more, with feeling!

BMW only plans vehicle lineups on a proto-continental basis: North America, the EU, China, ROA (Rest of Asia), South America, etc. It's up to individual dealers to order vehicles within that lineup of offerings that it thinks will sell in its market.

So, Cleveland rocks (ahem!) a lot of xDrives. So does the Northeast, Canada, and Northern Europe. xDrive is offered on almost every BMW because there are enough markets to make it viable and profitable as an option, no matter what segment both the brand and individual makes hold.

Thing is, much of the rest of the world doesn't buy xDrives. There's no need for it in the market, it doesn't sell, and it effectively neuters one of the biggest selling points of BMW historically: RWD. And: the demand for xDrive will not go up as RWD disappears on smaller BMWs in favor of FWD in the coming years since a fair amount (I would argue) of people who do opt for xDrive do it because of the unavailability of FWD (or, they buy an Audi, LOL).

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

the demand for xDrive will not go up as RWD disappears on smaller BMWs in favor of FWD in the coming years since a fair amount (I would argue) of people who do opt for xDrive do it because of the unavailability of FWD (or, they buy an Audi, LOL).

Here's the problem - from a performance perspective in decent weather RWD is king. We all understand this. Guess what - the VAST majority of folks buying cars are not buying performance cars, or at least that is not the main factor in the purchase decision. So take the small subset of buyers who give a shit and performance is the main factor. Then slice that number again to those who can get away with RWD as their main car. Small, small numbers. These cars are built for the global masses. For most people looking to spend $30K USD+ on a car, a decently equipped 3 series in, GASP, front wheel drive would be a pretty serviceable ideal car. At least if you wanted to talk about a single car that wold cover most desires of most folks.

Aside from a practicality standpoint of needing some sort of FWD or AWD, there is nothing aside from spending a LOT more money (C class, S4) that has a decent rear biased system. So from a performance point of view the 230 xDrive, if you need AWD, is about as good as you can get for the $ from a performance perspective.

[Lucky13]

To whoever posted that Camaro sales are up you need to actually do some research before posting, sales have declined from 86297 in 2014 to 77502 in 2015 to 72705 in 2016 and down ytd from 26038 to 24038. One month is a meaningless number just look at the trend and it shows coupes are dying just like sedans. 16% decline in two years and down an additional 7.7% ytd.

Mustang is dropping worse, 2015 122,349 and 2016 105,349 about 15% but ytd 30527 vs last year td of 42862 or almost 29%.

[wjones14]

Originally Posted by Lucky13

To whoever posted that Camaro sales are up you need to actually do some research before posting, sales have declined from 86297 in 2014 to 77502 in 2015 to 72705 in 2016 and down ytd from 26038 to 24038. One month is a meaningless number just look at the trend and it shows coupes are dying just like sedans. 16% decline in two years and down an additional 7.7% ytd.

Mustang is dropping worse, 2015 122,349 and 2016 105,349 about 15% but ytd 30527 vs last year td of 42862 or almost 29%.

With all due respect, I don't need to do anything... I was simply responding to the first post in this thread. Guess what it was? A post about the declining sales of the 2 Series in APRIL 2017.

[crabu2]

Why doesn't BMW have a button to turn off AWD to make the car RWD? Might it be because they don't want people burning up rear tires, causing a difference in diameter between front and rear, which could cause a problem when in AWD?

Eh... I'd still rather have the option to switch between RWD and AWD.. All they'd have to do is allso the center diff to slip a bit... and if the variance gets to big, have it set off a warning to get new tires or rotate with some burnouts to even the size up again. HAHAHA...

Just babbling my thoughts.. BTW I think there was Suzuki that had an option to run the car in FWD, AWD or 4WD (locked center diff for 50:50 split).

[XutvJet]

2 series sales suffer in the US because most US buyers want the most volume/size for the price vs handling dynamics. It's hard for them to justify spending $45K+ on a two door BMW when you could spend a few grand more (possibly the same with negotiations) and get a larger 4 door 3 series. The same thing is played out in the truck market. Why buy a Toyota Tacoma when you could get a much larger F150 for the same price? More is better right?

When I was considering an M235, I was very specific about what I wanted (MW, 6MT, highend stereo/coral leather/parking sensors/cold weather package, no moonroof, no nav). I had to order my car because NO dealer in country would ever consider ordering a car like a did. I could have easily bought a dealer stock fully loaded RWD M235 auto or a decently loaded 340/440i auto for the same price I did bought my low-option M235 for. Point being, BMW dealers are far more willing to deal on sitting inventory and you can get larger BMWs for well under MSRP.

[bimmerfile]

There may be a simpler explanation why sales of new 2-series appear to be down.
A lot of early production 2-series are, and have been, coming off lease or traded or sold with original owners moving on to something else.
Given the target market demographic of 2-series owners, it is quite likely that many are opting for a more affordable pre-owned CPOed 2er rather than waiting 2 - 3 months for a new order.
One would need to look at the total of new and pre-owned sales to determine to what extent fewer people appear to be buying 2ers.

[crabu2]

I'll tell you why 2 series sales are down.. It's because all the Verts are sitting at port.. for months and months.

Sheesh... How long is it going to take BMW to get these cars to dealers? I'm thinking 2018 models will be on lots before these '17 verts make it.

[bimmerfile]

Originally Posted by crabu2

I'll tell you why 2 series sales are down.. It's because all the Verts are sitting at port.. for months and months.

Sheesh... How long is it going to take BMW to get these cars to dealers? I'm thinking 2018 models will be on lots before these '17 verts make it.

Why are the ragtops sitting in port?

[Vitacura]

Originally Posted by bimmerfile

Why are the ragtops sitting in port?

There is a severe supply shortage of the top compartment lid trim pieces caused by a fire at the suppliers production facility.

[bimmerfile]

Originally Posted by Vitacura

There is a severe supply shortage of the top compartment lid trim pieces caused by a fire at the suppliers production facility.

Can't they install that at the dealers after delivery?

[Vitacura]

Originally Posted by bimmerfile

Can't they install that at the dealers after delivery?

After some more research it seems that the piece in question is the C shaped tonneau cover that pivots open and closes, so a pretty major piece for the convertible. I believe this was announced in March and latest bulletin is stating June through August for delivery of parts. Major bummer for those who ordered.

[BEM-S4]

April is a weird month to compare to begin with. March being a quarter end often times they do wacky shit to juice numbers. You can't look YoY at a single month, first of the quarter no less, and draw any significant conclusions.

[bimmerfile]

Originally Posted by Vitacura

After some more research it seems that the piece in question is the C shaped tonneau cover that pivots open and closes, so a pretty major piece for the convertible. I believe this was announced in March and latest bulletin is stating June through August for delivery of parts. Major bummer for those who ordered.

Wow , dunno what the % of sales ragtops are in N/A, but in Europe it's approx 45%, so that's got to hurt overall sales of the 2er.