[riponfrosh]

Hello all,

I have a '21 M240i, rwd, 6-speed, LBB.

For an overview - I have recently installed a M-Perf LSD. The car has Apex VS5rs with PS4Ss (currently running on stock wheels with Michelin Alpins as I live in Wisconsin and do occasionally use the car in the winter.)

*I also have an autosolutions shift kit and rear subframe bushings waiting for install.

I have owned this car for 2 years, and love it... for the most part.

My biggest complaint by a mile is lack of feel and connection to the road. I enjoy spirited back road driving and occasional track days (have yet to track the 240) and compared with my Miata and my old EVO X, the driving engagement is not even in the same universe. Neither of those are stock, to be fair, and I do think the 240 can be improved dramatically.

While not much can be done in regards to the numb electric power steering, I'm confident that reducing body roll, getting some camber dialed in, "firming" the suspension, and potentially introducing larger sway bars would offer a great deal of improvement (though I'm unsure just how much.)

My plan is:

KW DDC Coilover setup - I want to keep the option of a compliant ride, which is why I chose the 240 over the M2 to begin with. This seems like the best choice, but open to suggestions.

Camber plates - Likely vorshlag, though I have heard complaints of noise. Again, option to suggestions.

Sway Bars ? Maybe? I know they are a challenge to install, and depending on what other modifications have been may or may not be worth the trouble.

Thrust arm upgrade/Monoball - Have heard these can provide more feedback.

I am interested to hear what folks think I should expect from these modifications, and if there are other areas I should be looking to specifically improve the connection and feedback from the car.

Thank you all!


---pic for good measure---

[Mike F.]

I have nothing to say regarding the suspension, but I am happy to see another LBB owner! That's a rare color, at least around here. I've seen one M2 and one 3-series car with that color since I bought mine a couple of years ago.

[riponfrosh]

Originally Posted by Mike F.

I have nothing to say regarding the suspension, but I am happy to see another LBB owner! That's a rare color, at least around here. I've seen one M2 and one 3-series car with that color since I bought mine a couple of years ago.

Nice! There is an M2 near me that is LBB, but from what I can tell it's exceptionally rare on the M240.

From what I could find, there are likely less than a few dozen LBB M240s with a stick that were even imported.

It was certainly a bugger to find one. I flew to Austin Texas to get the car, and drove it 1200 miles home, ha! Immediately ppf'd the nose and ceramic coated it. Such a pretty car when it's clean.

[riponfrosh]

Realized I probably posted in the wrong forum :-(

I don't post much, generally just creep, ha. My mistake.

Not sure if threads can be moved.

[Phillymb75]

Sorry for staying off topic, but love my lbb. I thought I was special getting it with stick, there were two of us that day doing delivery at the performance center with lbb/black convertibles and manual transmissions

[riponfrosh]

Haha! I would have to say I feel that most LBB manuals I see for sale are convertibles. Not sure on build numbers, have never been able to find any info.

If I didn't have a miata to scratch the top down itch, I definitely would have considered the convertible. Great fun, I'm sure.

[Mike F.]

Originally Posted by riponfrosh

Nice! There is an M2 near me that is LBB, but from what I can tell it's exceptionally rare on the M240.

From what I could find, there are likely less than a few dozen LBB M240s with a stick that were even imported.

It was certainly a bugger to find one. I flew to Austin Texas to get the car, and drove it 1200 miles home, ha! Immediately ppf'd the nose and ceramic coated it. Such a pretty car when it's clean.

Less than a few dozen? Mine's a 6MT as well - I had no idea.

[BlueberryPie]

I think you're heading in the right direction for suspension mods, but I don't have personal experience with them on this car yet.

I recently installed the M-LSD and was shocked to see how tiny the rear sway bar is. I'm currently on PS4S tires as well - upgrading both sway bars and adding more negative camber are next on my list.

[morphomeman]

OP is looking to build the "best suspension," but there is no best suspension. It all depends on what factors are most important to the owner-driver. The M2 suspension is very responsive, but it is also often criticized for being much harsher than that of the M240. I like one lump of sugar in my espresso, some like none, and some like two. There is no best choice.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by morphomeman

OP is looking to build the "best suspension," but there is no best suspension. It all depends on what factors are most important to the owner-driver. The M2 suspension is very responsive, but it is also often criticized for being much harsher than that of the M240. I like one lump of sugar in my espresso, some like none, and some like two. There is no best choice.

I'm almost tempted to launch into my "no such thing as better/best exists" rant! Things are either the same or different..objectively, that's all that exists. Better/worse, best/worst are all human subjective experiences that are not objectively real. The universe doesn't care how anyone feels. Things just are.

[riponfrosh]

Ok Ok .... I get it. Yes.. there is no "best" suspension. My bad. I work in engineering. I should have known to define the goal, haha

I bought an M240 over an M2 to maintain daily drivability on Wisconsin's winter-abused tarmac. Solid subframe mounts, little sound deadening, "only-stiff" suspension are not ideal, and my wife would refuse to ride in the car for more than local errands. My EVO X was essentially kicked out of our home.

That said, the stock suspension lacks communication and high-speed stability. It wallows, pitches and rolls. Virtually zero communication is relayed back to me while driving.

I was set to sell the car, honestly.

But decided I at least wanted to experience the car with an LSD (which I will stand behind is a borderline criminal omission by BMW, particularly on RWD versions.) I can now FEEL the rear end of the car and control it, certainly at lower speeds. I'm hoping adding a bit more stiffness to the rear subframe bushings will increase that sense of feedback, while not going "full solid mount" as in the M2.

I want to improve feedback, increase steering response and feel, increase high-speed stability and control, dramatically reduce body roll.

I'm sure the M2CS would be my "ideal" but...

A) that's an absurd price tag for a 2 series
B) I actually much prefer the B58 to the S55 in terms of sound, "streetable" torque, low cost to maintain (or even replace years down the road.)

Hoping this added clarity gets me out of the doghouse here :-)

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by riponfrosh

Ok Ok .... I get it. Yes.. there is no "best" suspension. My bad. I work in engineering. I should have known to define the goal, haha

I bought an M240 over an M2 to maintain daily drivability on Wisconsin's winter-abused tarmac. Solid subframe mounts, little sound deadening, "only-stiff" suspension are not ideal, and my wife would refuse to ride in the car for more than local errands. My EVO X was essentially kicked out of our home.

That said, the stock suspension lacks communication and high-speed stability. It wallows, pitches and rolls. Virtually zero communication is relayed back to me while driving.

I was set to sell the car, honestly.

But decided I at least wanted to experience the car with an LSD (which I will stand behind is a borderline criminal omission by BMW, particularly on RWD versions.) I can now FEEL the rear end of the car and control it, certainly at lower speeds. I'm hoping adding a bit more stiffness to the rear subframe bushings will increase that sense of feedback, while not going "full solid mount" as in the M2.

I want to improve feedback, increase steering response and feel, increase high-speed stability and control, dramatically reduce body roll.

I'm sure the M2CS would be my "ideal" but...

A) that's an absurd price tag for a 2 series
B) I actually much prefer the B58 to the S55 in terms of sound, "streetable" torque, low cost to maintain (or even replace years down the road.)

Hoping this added clarity gets me out of the doghouse here :-)

Well said, sir!

Also consider M2 Lower Control Arms and a strut tower brace. I found both improved feel and responsiveness, especially the LCAs instead of camber plates. Turner Motorsports sells the kit. BTW, I think you want to consider anti-sway bars instead.

[M3SQRD]

KW DDC is setup more for a comfortable street setup, not a performance setup. Sticking with edc, I’d consider the Tractive Touring or the newly released Nitron elec-TRON R1. Not sure they’re available for the F22. If you’re willing to sacrifice EDC, there are a few options that would improve performance yet keep things comfortable on the street. Budget plays a big part in getting both performance and comfort. Replacing the LCAB with a monoball does improve steering feedback and braking stability. Camber plates, or adjustable arms, are a great upgrade and make a noticeable improvement even on the stock suspension. ARBs can improve cornering performance with minimal impact on ride comfort and do help with controlling the camber curve on the front struts. I’m running a MCS 2WR with F/R 500/800 lbf/in (divorced rear), monoballs, and camber plates. Massive improvement over stock.

[riponfrosh]

Thanks for the feedback!

I haven’t had much luck finding Tractive in the US. I reached out to 2 distributors, never heard back from either. Both have crap websites. Anyone have a source? I haven’t my looked into Nitron as of yet but if there’s a popular distributor, I’d appreciate any direction there.

I was considering SPL LCAs in the front. Would camber plates still be highly suggested in that event? Also, which thrust arm is needed in that case I know some folks have swapped in the M3/M4 unit to help counteract the M3/M4 LCA, but was hoping the SPL unit would have less effect on the geometry (which seems to push the wheel quite a bit forward.)

For added context, budget is certainly a factor, but the handling of this car is by far my biggest concern and focus of improvement. Based on what I’ve seen tractive and SPL prices at, it’s in the realm of reality for me, assuming they deliver the experience I am searching for.
More power down the road is a goal, but currently, I have little need for more power. The stock power figures, in my opinion, are WELL beyond the capabilities of the stock suspension to manage that power. Guys running 500+ Hp on stock suspension… they have bigger huevos than me I guess… ha

[Aspen235]

I have a bigger front bar, it was a good improvement, a real pain to install though.
Some more camber up front will make a big difference too.

[M3SQRD]

There’s only a sole importer of Tractive and Nitron in the US and it’s Inertia Lab. He’s also certified to service most race/street dampers. His website is very limited although it’s supposed to be updated soon.

I prefer adjusting camber with camber plates over an adjustable LCAs. However, adjustable LCAs are still beneficial by removing soft oem bushings. PowerFlex offers upper (thrust arm) and lower CABs, and SPL offers replacement upper thrust arms and LCAs.

Are you willing to give up edc? There are a few great options available if you are. Prices range from $$ to $$$$$.

[riponfrosh]

What sort of negative impacts were seen with the larger front sway? I’d imagine this could create an overall harsher ride. I’ve installed larger front sway bars on several vehicles, but always in tandem with stiffer suspension, so I’ve never isolated the direct negatives.

I’d really like to keep the ability adjust the suspension with the “push of a button.” Maintaining the EDC is ideal, but I’d be alright with a standalone unit as well. Adjustability was a primary 240 > M2 for me.

[M3SQRD]

Larger front ASB will have a small impact on straight line ride quality. Most BMWs benefit with the addition of a stiffer front ASB because it better maintains the camber you start off with. Front strut suspensions tend to lose camber with increasing compression so a stiffer ASB minimizes this loss of camber. However, if you go really stiff in the front without changes to the rear then that’s when you start increasing understeer. Installing a rear ASB is so costly on modern BMWs because you have to drop the rear subframe.

If you want to maintain edc and improve performance + comfort you’re left with only a couple of options - kw ddc and Tractive Touring (and Nitron Roadsport if it’s released for the f22). What do you mean by a standalone unit - a controller that replaces the oem edc controller but still is an active damping suspension? What adjustability does the f22 have that the f87 didn’t/doesn’t have?

[riponfrosh]

Does the tractive touring utilize the edc? I saw an install that utilized a standalone touch screen for adjustment.

The f87 didn’t have edc (other than the m2cs) as far as I know. The ability to firm up the suspension when desired, but also comfortably utilize the car on standard streets daily was important, and while the stock suspension offers neither a highly compliant ride in comfort, nor a “enthusiast-level” amount of body control in sport, it’s better for me than just “stiff” in the M2. Obviously one could add a standalone system in the M2 as well, which could potentially make the comparison far more even.

[Aspen235]

Originally Posted by riponfrosh

What sort of negative impacts were seen with the larger front sway? I’d imagine this could create an overall harsher ride. I’ve installed larger front sway bars on several vehicles, but always in tandem with stiffer suspension, so I’ve never isolated the direct negatives.

Almost no change in ride quality. I notice some additional harshness when going over a bump with one wheel like a speed bump or my driveway curb at an angle. Less body roll which was the objective.