[ramy_who]

Originally Posted by X54TH

We own both a 2016 M235 and a 2017 230 (well appointed w/ m Pkg). Both are fun vehicles and enjoy them both. I would consider the 230 to be a great daily drive that is very fuel efficient while giving you a spirited experience...drove it yesterday in Sports mode and enjoyed it. My biggest beef about the 230 is the exhaust note.

I absolutely love the M235 but I find it very different than the 230 for obvious reasons. The M235 has the Dinan CAI, Chip and MPE. The tires are the OEM MPSS on VMR's 710. The M235 is planted, very fast and the sound makes it thrilling.

Something to note, in Canada there are some options not available on the 230 that are available on the upgrade to the M235. I think it was the, adaptive headlights, adaptive high beams and forward warning collision were the three that we have on the M235 that we couldn't get on the 230.

I hate the exhaust note too.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by ramy_who

It's a fact that the 228/30's handle better than 35/40's. It's not a claim. It's also a fact that 35/40's are quicker in a straight line.

The only subjective claims are which one is more fun to drive. That all depends on your idea of fun.

Just to be clear my fully loaded 228 costs the same a base 235. Not even counting my mods. The 235 is very nose heavy and that took me literally 10 seconds to notice when I test drove both.

The M235 is 1.7% heavier in the nose than the 228i with the MSport package or around 55lbs difference. The M235 F/R split is 52.5/47.5 and the 228i 50.8/49.2. Not exactly a huge difference. The newer B-series motor BMWs (230 and 240) will be heavier in the front due to their closed deck blocks and additional liquid cooling systems. I've read in the order of 40lbs to 50lbs.

The M235 and 228i MSport, both on MPSS tires, generate the same lateral and skid pad numbers. The M235 seems to generate fractionally stronger numbers for whatever reason.

[XutvJet]

I can't fault anyone for going with the 4 banger 2 series, especially if you get a lighter optioned 6MT with the MSport package and got it for a good price. If I saw one of those, I'd know the owner is a real car guy and is very serious about having a very fun street car that would be extremely capable on a shorter track.

I used to be all about the power and that more power is better. That need for power has dwindled significantly especially after spending mountains and mountains of money on power mods over the past few decades. In many cases, adding more power wrecks the dynamics of a performance car. I'm now far more interested in a power/handling/comfort balance all the while having a car that visually looks OEM+. If I want more power, it's best just to buy the faster stock car and maybe add 20-30hp and call it a day. I've learned it's the little things that can really make a good car great. Out of the box, a 2 series with the performance suspension is pretty dang good for a street car and the aftermarket is such that you can make it your own.

[Y0tsuya]

Originally Posted by ramy_who

It's a fact that the 228/30's handle better than 35/40's. It's not a claim. It's also a fact that 35/40's are quicker in a straight line.

The only subjective claims are which one is more fun to drive. That all depends on your idea of fun.

I came from a E46 330i. I know for a fact that I'm not going to be happy with a 228i/230i. IMO the M235i outperforms my 330i by a wide margin in acceleration, ride quality, and cornering capability. That to me = fun.

Originally Posted by ramy_who

I just don't like it when people hate on the N20/B48 when the light 4 cylinder e30 M3 is what made BMW recognized as a fun performance vehicle in the first place.The N52 in E90's unfortunately gave the 28's a bad rep.

In this thread is mostly people hating on the N55/B58, saying how the extra HP doesn't matter because the small extra weight up front (52.5/47.5 vs 50.8/49.2) ruined the handling, even though most are probably driving the AT with 51.3/48.7 distribution. Yet they can totally feel the difference. I drove a E46 with near perfect 50/50 balance for 15 years 180k miles and I can't really tell the difference. I feel the exaggerated difference in handling is all in their heads, which is fine if they would just admit it, because it makes them happy.

[ramy_who]

Originally Posted by Y0tsuya

In this thread is mostly people hating on the N55/B58, saying how the extra HP doesn't matter because the small extra weight up front (52.5/47.5 vs 50.8/49.2) ruined the handling, even though most are probably driving the AT with 51.3/48.7 distribution.

No one's hating on N55/B58. I just think the 228 is as much of an enthusiast car as the 235.

[USA-RET]

I have both a 2015 MINI and a 2017 M240i (came out of a 2015 Corvette). Please do not misinterpret my intent w/ the following:

"it is more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow".

I had way more fun driving my Mini than I did my Corvette. I could keep my foot in it longer and just "zip" around with it more than I could w/ the C7. It was one reason I traded the C7 for the M240i.

When I mentioned to my salesman my reasons for trading (lack of playfulness in traffic and the C7 being too much of a "beast"), he mentioned to me that w/ the M240i I was not giving that much up in the way of performance (and he was right). He said I'd likely be happier w/ the 230i if I wanted to play.

As it turns out, I am more satisfied w/ the the M240i than I was with the Corvette. Adding the Stage 1 further narrows the performance gap between the two cars, yet the BMW somehow feels more civilized in everyday driving (and I love the 8 speed ZF compared to the crappy A8, with it's abhorrent behavior in the Corvette). Additionally, it doesn't draw nearly as much attention as the C7 did and allows for a bit more spirited driving w/o the scrutiny of LE.

In retrospect, I could easily have lived w/ the 230i (as was my salesman's recommendation). But I went w/ the M240i because I wanted the extra performance (on tap) and preferred it to the M2 for daily drive-ability. I'd imagine w/ a tune, the 230i would be quite the "sleeper".

[aozer]

I agree that the sound was the worst part about my 228i. It basically sounded like a diesel at idle and nothing on throttle. It also didn't seem to have much pull over 80 but that is not a big deal for street driving.

[wdc330i]

My E91 (six cylinder/auto trans.) had a super whiny engine note. Loved the car otherwise, but, woof, that sound.

[p912guy]

I've followed this thread but haven't chimed in because I didn't really have anything to add, that is until I saw an "M228i" last night in Madison, WI, at which point two very common threads merged:

1) 228/230 vs 235/240?
2) Too many "M's" on our car? or Is it a "real" "M" car?

There is no doubt in my mind all flavors of 2 Series are great cars from all standpoints, performance, value, desirability, reliability, etc., etc., and we each choose our particular flavor for an equal number of valid reasons, availability, price, perceived value, options, colors, etc., etc. So I find it all quite amusing that many of us seem to worry about these things. If we're trying to impress someone, remember, most folks don't see anything beyond the Roundel and don't know a 2 Series from a 3/4 Series or even a 6 Series, let along a 228/230 from a 235/240. And, if we're not quite sure we made the right choice in the 2 Series, remember, we didn't follow the herds into a 3/4 Series and picked the best "drivers" car BMW makes, which also just happens to be one the best "drivers" cars period.

[Radmobile]

Revisiting this thread after participating in the first 1-3 pages...

This debate reminds me of the e36 M3 vs. e46 M3 comparison:

• e36 M3 has 240hp (on-par with 228i/230i) while e46 M3 has 333hp (near M235i)
• Some say the e36 is more balanced because the power doesn't outperform the chassis
• Others argue the e46 M3 is better because of the added power or they feel the chassis is as balanced
• Slow car fast vs. fast car slow argument
• e36 M3 can explore near the limit without going to jail
• e46 M3 requires you to wring it out to see the added performance benefits over the e36 M3

Neither are right or wrong. It comes down to personal preference.

Case in point, on paper the e36 M3 outperforms the e30 M3 in every regard. Better chassis, more power, faster, better handling, arguably the best steering feel of any BMW era, and more. However that's not to say the e36 M3 is the better M3.

Let me leave you all with one final remark...

BMW has a way of making things work. Power, cylinder count, and automotive journalism's arbitrarily important stats aside.

[stevenvillatoro]

While I would've preferred the 230 over the 240, my final decision point came down to pure economics.

With the two models loaded up to my liking, I projected which one would best retain its value. Determining cost of ownership requires considering residual value, and that's the reason why my 2 Series has two extra cylinders and begins with an 'M'.

[wdc330i]

Originally Posted by stevenvillatoro

While I would've preferred the 230 over the 240, my final decision point came down to pure economics.

With the two models loaded up to my liking, I projected which one would best retain its value. Determining cost of ownership requires considering residual value, and that's the reason why my 2 Series has two extra cylinders and begins with an 'M'.

Hmm. I think you also have to figure in a smaller market/pool of buyers for the higher "value" used car. And more expensive maintenance on the higher performance vehicle (tires, for one).

[stevenvillatoro]

Originally Posted by wdc330i

[Hmm. I think you also have to figure in a smaller market/pool of buyers for the higher "value" used car. And more expensive maintenance on the higher performance vehicle (tires, for one).

Oh, I didn't mean to imply that my justifications were entirely rational!

[wdc330i]

Originally Posted by stevenvillatoro

Oh, I didn't mean to imply that my justifications were entirely rational!

[Viffermike]

I would like to supply some context in the form of a single sentence, just for brevity's sake:

Except for 0-60 (where the difference is only .3 seconds), the major performance metrics of the BMW 228i/230i are either better than or equal to the 1990 Lamborghini Diablo.

(Bonus sentence: The 228i/230i M Sport actually stops from 70mph in 32 less feet than the Diablo and is faster from 30-50 and 50-70 mph by almost three seconds.)

Anyone who uses '228i' and 'slow' in the same sentence should be shot.

[Dylan86]

228i<230i<m235i<m240i<M2<M2 CS<M2 GTS<M235iR

I mean, where does it ever stop? It doesn't! There will always be something incrementally better, from an equipment standpoint, that's how this industry works, and continues to evolve. It's also how they keep you "coming back for MORE", well more=less, in a lot of cases. I am convinced the F2x chassis is a gem, regardless of what's been said by the "M" car owners. To anyone who try's to convince me otherwise, go ahead and buy that M2, M2 CS, M4 GTS or whatever you feel will make yourself an "adequate" BMW enthusiast. I love those guys, though, because they give me perma-grins when I go to the track and lap SEVERAL seconds faster, in the m-lite car. I've said it before, "I'd rather be the underdog" in cases, like these.

So sick of the sub-model ego/biased BS, it got old in the VAG forums, it's getting old, here..

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

I would like to supply some context in the form of a single sentence, just for brevity's sake:

Except for 0-60 (where the difference is only .3 seconds), the major performance metrics of the BMW 228i/230i are either better than or equal to the 1990 Lamborghini Diablo.

(Bonus sentence: The 228i/230i M Sport actually stops from 70mph in 32 less feet than the Diablo and is faster from 30-50 and 50-70 mph by almost three seconds.)

Anyone who uses '228i' and 'slow' in the same sentence should be shot.

So 228i = supercar.

M235/M240 = Veyron.

I kid.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

So 228i = supercar.

M235/M240 = Veyron.

I kid.

[Y0tsuya]

Originally Posted by Dylan86

So sick of the sub-model ego/biased BS, it got old in the VAG forums, it's getting old, here..

My original post is all about each person finding the right car for them, even if the higher-spec'd model is better. Then all the 4-banger people piled in saying how my thinking is logically flawed for saying higher-spec = better. You can't win with those people but I have some free time.

[Dylan86]

Originally Posted by Y0tsuya

My original post is all about each person finding the right car for them, even if the higher-spec'd model is better. Then all the 4-banger people piled in saying how my thinking is logically flawed for saying higher-spec = better. You can't win with those people but I have some free time.

Higher spec is only higher price, to me, not so much "better". I can totally appreciate a sunroof delete, bare bones m235i w/LSD, it's what I had initially set out for. And if I didn't spend the last 10+ years building and modding 4pot VW turbo cars, I'd probably have went with a 228 w/THP. I had about 6-7 VR6 equipped VW's in my earlier years (before turbo's were a thing) and longed for that pure sweet symphany of a 6 cylinder engine. I got it for a while, with my B5/B8 S4's, but it wasn't the same as an inline, or VR, and the driving experience is pretty underwhelming.

I feel it's the best of both worlds. If the 235 was a NA i6, and the 228 was a 2.0T 4pot, it would be a no brainer (4pot). But since the struggle is real, to make a "reliable" 400whp with a 4banger, the i6 was that much more enticing as a prospective buyer.

And, the sound

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Y0tsuya

My original post is all about each person finding the right car for them, even if the higher-spec'd model is better. Then all the 4-banger people piled in saying how my thinking is logically flawed for saying higher-spec = better. You can't win with those people but I have some free time.

And, all these pages later, it remains as flawed as ever. This turns out not to be at all about the cars, but about linguistic skills. "More" is just "more"; "better" is purely subjective. Until you understand the difference between your personal world view and the actual meaning of the word "better", this discussion continues to be pointless...and yet, here I am...too much free time too, I guess.

[Y0tsuya]

Originally Posted by Dylan86

Higher spec is only higher price, to me, not so much "better".

Higher spec is higher spec. I mean specs are there for a reason. It is an objective metric. People here have trouble separating the objective from subjective. If the M235i/M240i handles totally differently from 228i/230i (unlikely) due to the larger engine, it's hard to ignore the elephant in the room, which is the extra 100hp. It's really hard to argue that the M240i is not more capable than the 230i in any quantifiable metric. But people let their feeling override their objectivity.

I'm currently in a similar quandry when choosing to buy either a 13" or a 15" Surface Book 2. On the one hand the 15" is more capable. On the other hand the 13" is more portable. In terms of specs, the 15" SB2 is the better computer and unlike people here nobody in computing forums is going to argue otherwise. But maybe the 13" is more suitable for me because I will lug it to and from work each day.