[JasonCSU]

Originally Posted by Bigiggs

Its not that I don't appreciate cars getting reviewed and tested. I do. The point I'm making is I cannot believe any auto manufacturer would waste a dime loaning out their fleet to these guys. As another poster mentioned, their videos are continually cluttered with erroneous facts, their camera work and editing is on par with embarassing, and frankly they are not entertaining in the slightest bit. So again I ask, "why does Audi and BMW loan vehicles to these guys?", rather than letting an amateur such as Nick Murray (an amateur/hobbyist/car enthusiast) review these vehicles. I am not comparing TFL to Top Gear production mind you, I am simply using Nick Murry an enthusiast with no journalistic experience (to my knowledge he is an IT guy) as an example. Any of Nick's videos will blow any TFL video out of the water. So how is it that videos produced by an amateur (no offense Nick) with a fulltime job obliterates a full blown youtube show dedicated to reviewing cars? And you ask why are people so hard on these guys? I am just shocked how manufacturers have a budget to allocate to productions like TFL.

To each his own, if you like TFL go for it, hope I was not condescending.

Hammer meet nail. You hit it right on the head.

[YGazis109]

Originally Posted by snaimpally

No M235i because the comparison is between cars with 4 cyl engines - the M235i is a 6 cyl engine. I don't see why they couldn't have got a 228i xdrive so that both had AWD instead of making it AWD vs RWD.

Oh okay thanks clarifying!

[Tag]

TFL is the Mickey Mouse Club of car reviewers, Fisher Price My First YouTube Channel. Can't believe anyone would find their misinformed reviews insightful. They always try too hard to be cool but come across as idiotic d-bags. Just review the damn car and get your facts straight. Cringe whenever I see these clowns...

[chris82]

When I watched the review of the M235i vs the Lexus ISF, I mean that sucked, that really sucked

[M3 n X5M]

The S3 is a FWD derivative, and is prone to understeer. The VW/Audi FWD platform is not good at quickly snapping left or right. The objective on track with this car are slow inputs. The chassis is then able to hold you down with impressive grip. This is my recollection of the R32, a very close cousin to this S3.

The 228i should be easier to track due to the RWD nature of the car. The softer suspension and overall softer tuning of the tranny should make this car miss out on its full potential on track.

The 228i - no surprise - gets around track as fast or a little faster than the S3.

Why compare these two - they are out of each other's league by nearly 10k? Well, this shows the 228i is a very fun car!!! Great news.

The S3 was as slow as a 228i? Yes. No surprise. The FWD platform it is built on goes FWD as soon as you are in a straight line. The AWD will kick in half way down a turn, and too slow to make the car oversteer. No matter what all the VW and Audi sales tell you... I owned an R32 and that is the nature of this car.

Throw rain or snow down: Park the entire BMW lineup. The S3 is going to sink you. I have owned three M cars and a five series... Needless to say, the R32 runs circles around the X5M in the rain and in the snow. My X5M glides over snow and ice packs that my R32 used to command. The difference is plain out humbling. Even jeeps have a hard time keeping up with that FWD - AWD platform using the Haldex such as the mkiv, mkv R32s and now the Golf R mkvi, Golf R mkvii and the new S3. The VW / Audi formula is brilliant in the wet and in the snow. A recent article on the Golf R - sibliing to the S3 -, stated the car is the best car in the wet for 2014.

This particular review is great, it opens a great conversation without a lot of comments other than some immature humor. I liked that the reviewers did not go crazy over either car. In fact, they show you in a pretty simple environment that the cars are good competitors to each other.

If I were to buy a car for all year use where there is rain and snow, I would get the S3. If I were in the south or southwest, I would get the 228i. And if price were the object, and rain and snow were in the horizon I would buy the Golf R!

[smithf80]

LOL They compared the S3 to the wrong car and it was still better, hah!

(it did win... right?, I'm just going off what this guy said, I didn't watch the video)

Originally Posted by wujin941005

drag--228 faster. lap--228 faster. LOL.

[bimmerfile]

Originally Posted by smithf32

LOL They compared the S3 to the wrong car and it was still better, hah!

(it did win... right?, I'm just going off what this guy said, I didn't watch the video)

Yah, but it was the wrong colour. Should have been red...

[M3maniac20]

I can't stand TFL either...but who is worse, TFL? Or Redline Reviews with Sofyan Bey who spends more time with the camera pointed at him than the car? The only redeeming factor about TFL is that they got Emme Hall and thank God she does most videos by herself. But holy crap, Nathan on TFL drives me insane.

[M3maniac20]

Originally Posted by JasonCSU

Hammer meet nail. You hit it right on the head.

Exactly! Especially when most of the time these guys do more pointless mashups than this one. Like putting an Audi A8 with a Jeep Cherokee to see which one is the fastest.

[crqflier]

Well, the comparison was 2.0l turbo 4 vs 2.0l turbo 4. So that's why not m235i. But the s3 price point was closer to the m235i base. So maybe the right comparison should have been a3 2.0 vs 228. Even then, the a3 2.0 base price is higher by like 4k. But the MSport as-tested price probably would be close to A3 2.0 land. Regardless, the 228 still won, so that makes it a great video with outstanding commentary.

[tony20009]

Even before the video started playing, I was thinking, "An S3 vs a 228? Of course the S3 will will the objective race components of the comparison." I was surprised that the 228 won the lap and drag race elements. That it did, for me, highlights what I thought before seeing the video: there's not much militating, practically speaking, for buying an M235, except to meet very specialized requirements.

I think for BMW that's both a good and bad thing. I don't know if it's such a good idea to make one's "entry level" product so good that it disincents consumers from desiring the upmarket version??? For consumers, however, it's great. "No need to spend more" is never a bad thing in my mind.

All the best.

[configt]

Originally Posted by M3maniac20

I can't stand TFL either...but who is worse, TFL? Or Redline Reviews with Sofyan Bey who spends more time with the camera pointed at him than the car? The only redeeming factor about TFL is that they got Emme Hall and thank God she does most videos by herself. But holy crap, Nathan on TFL drives me insane.

Re: Redline...so damn hilarious and true.

[RJS5689]

Something doesn't seem right with that drag race. I considered an S3 and my good friend has one. Our cars are pretty darn close when it comes to straight line speed. I respect the S3, even if it's just a gussied up Golf R. In the end I chose the better car, though .

[lawgone]

Originally Posted by 2msport

Fucking thank you for your post. You said it I was thinking it. Sometimes these threads make me not want to come in here at all. One track, close minded people. Yeah the review isn't great. But take it for what it's worth. A professional driver driving these two cars around a track. The 228 was faster. Good job BMW. Audi still makes a great car. But on this track in these conditions the less powerful/but lighter (equally important) guy won. To say they aren't in the same league.. Well obviously they are. Douches.

You're welcome. It's a problem here sometimes, and as further comments show, they don't get it. There are ways to be critical in a respectful way and there are ways to come off as a pedantic jerk. Half the time a journalist not named Chris Harris takes the time to review a BMW it is met with unduly harsh criticism - even when the Bimmer is mostly praised in the video. It's a great way to encourage less coverage of the cars we love. If I was a car journalist I'd say, "Yeah, I love BMW's, but f*ck those ungrateful twats. I'm not making any videos for them. They'll freaking complain that I didn't use my tripod mount properly!"

[aggsy]

I don't post often, but I am going to post my thoughts on this.

I have driven the m235i and s3 recently as I was looking into purchasing one or the other.

What I will say is that the s3 takes off the line WAY quicker than what that video portrayed. Also performance wise, the m235i is slightly quicker (as you'd expect with a bit more power) but not by much. Through the bends the S3 grips just as well as my old Evo. The new platform that VW/Audi is using is far better than the old and despite it being FWD biased it is almost as good as a permanent AWD system. Not to mention its change of direction is quite good too (m235i is better though).

Comparing two cars just because they have the same size/capacity engines is pretty stupid. By that reckoning the new m3/4 shouldn't be compared to the new c63 or rs4 even though they are clearly built to be competitors on some level...the la ferrari shouldn't be compared to the p1 or 918 either...

In summary...TFL...

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by lawgone

You're welcome. It's a problem here sometimes, and as further comments show, they don't get it. There are ways to be critical in a respectful way and there are ways to come off as a pedantic jerk. Half the time a journalist not named Chris Harris takes the time to review a BMW it is met with unduly harsh criticism - even when the Bimmer is mostly praised in the video. It's a great way to encourage less coverage of the cars we love. If I was a car journalist I'd say, "Yeah, I love BMW's, but f*ck those ungrateful twats. I'm not making any videos for them. They'll freaking complain that I didn't use my tripod mount properly!"

Oh please, come off it already. The TFL guys are obnoxious and unfunny. Speaking of people who don't get it, they also love to mismatch cars. It's one thing to be a pedant, and an entirely different thing to expect a car reviewer not to make blatant factual errors in their reviews.

Why do I owe them any gratitude? They produce mediocre internet videos. I owe them nothing.

[Inline_Six]

Originally Posted by W///

I can't even bother clicking play. I hate both those idiots with a passion. They're those guys that think they are so hilarious, but are painfully not.

If we are going to go for these lower budget reviews that's not from a main car magazine, I much prefer Everyday Driver

Totally agree ! They think they're funny and smart ... they're painfully neither.

[Inline_Six]

Originally Posted by Bigiggs

I will gladly watch any one of his reviews over these ass clowns.

Well said, Sir !

[Inline_Six]

Originally Posted by Bigiggs

Its not that I don't appreciate cars getting reviewed and tested. I do. The point I'm making is I cannot believe any auto manufacturer would waste a dime loaning out their fleet to these guys. As another poster mentioned, their videos are continually cluttered with erroneous facts, their camera work and editing is on par with embarassing, and frankly they are not entertaining in the slightest bit. So again I ask, "why does Audi and BMW loan vehicles to these guys?", rather than letting an amateur such as Nick Murray (an amateur/hobbyist/car enthusiast) review these vehicles. I am not comparing TFL to Top Gear production mind you, I am simply using Nick Murry an enthusiast with no journalistic experience (to my knowledge he is an IT guy) as an example. Any of Nick's videos will blow any TFL video out of the water. So how is it that videos produced by an amateur (no offense Nick) with a fulltime job obliterates a full blown youtube show dedicated to reviewing cars? And you ask why are people so hard on these guys? I am just shocked how manufacturers have a budget to allocate to productions like TFL.

To each his own, if you like TFL go for it, hope I was not condescending.

You said it, brother. I cannot believe manufacturers lend these clowns cars.

[Inline_Six]

Originally Posted by JasonCSU

I completely agree. Their reviews are painful to watch with misguided facts and an overall lack of professionalism. I've also ran into these guys at a cars and coffee event here in CO, and they were some arrogant pricks in person. One minute I'm looking at several BMWs parked next to each other, the next there is a video camera pointed in my direction and these guys are yelling at me to get out of their shot.

You should have told them to fuck each other. Tell them you're gonna shit on every fuckin YouTube review they've ever done and will ever do. And do so.

[Inline_Six]

Originally Posted by Tag

TFL is the Mickey Mouse Club of car reviewers, Fisher Price My First YouTube Channel. Can't believe anyone would find their misinformed reviews insightful. They always try too hard to be cool but come across as idiotic d-bags. Just review the damn car and get your facts straight. Cringe whenever I see these clowns...

Amen !

[lawgone]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

Oh please, come off it already. The TFL guys are obnoxious and unfunny. Speaking of people who don't get it, they also love to mismatch cars. It's one thing to be a pedant, and an entirely different thing to expect a car reviewer not to make blatant factual errors in their reviews.

Why do I owe them any gratitude? They produce mediocre internet videos. I owe them nothing.

And I say again, you guys take yourselves way too seriously and give the rest of us a bad name. Every time a review is done by someone other than Chris Harris you guys lay into them. It gets so old to come here to see a review and then see a bunch of people that produce absolutely NOTHING critiquing every little thing about it. Lots of people do appreciate these videos, we're just not nearly as vocal as the complainers.