[USA-RET]

^^^

Amen, Praise the Lord, Hallelujah, Holy $#!t

[Supernaut]

Not to defend the passive aggressive behavior of the OP, but who exactly said he was driving in the left lane? Not the OP. And "passing lanes" exist on highways (at least, theoretically in the US), not suburban 35 MPH roads with frequent intersections allowing left turns.

[moldcad]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Second: I'm going to assume you're traveled, if not driven, in Europe. There, lane discipline is an art form, particularly in Germany and parts of Italy and France. It's downright dangerous to stay in the left lane there because faster traffic is often traveling at a rate of speed so much higher than general traffic's, it endangers both the slower and faster traveler.

I live in Europe and even though I'm Polish, I drive frequently on the German autobahns. I followed this thread with interest and some amusement, the latter particularly caused by numerous remarks that "the US drivers are the worst ones in the world" and "you should drive in Europe to learn the lane-usage discipline". Well - I must tell you that it so happens the general consensus here in Poland is that its us the Polish drivers who are the worst; and while I find it (partially) true, it's easy to explain with the fact the "motoring culture" is only at its very early days, given that some 20 years ago we didn't have many cars, those with good and fast cars could be counted with one hand fingers, plus - above all - we didn't have no dual-lane highways (not to mention motorways) at all. So the society (I write "society" as a notion of motoring culture cannot be restricted to drivers only) is only learning driving our fast modern cars, on our brand new network of fine roads (including still very few motorways) in a civilized and above all - safe manner. Of course - as in the entire world - us BMW owners are considered the worst and perhaps rightly so, but I'll tell you some: while the BMW drivers are the most aggressive ones on the roads here, they at the same time are by far the best ones - simply because most of us are enthusiast drivers like myself (at my 63, I've been driving cars for 46 years now - of which the last 17 years it's been BMWs only).

Regarding the issue of left lane (the "fast" one as some people call and consider them, or the "overtaking only" ones as others consider them): this has been a subject of a very fierce discussion here too lately, and I can tell you the campaign against cruising on them has just started to bring fruits. This is encouraging as it proves the motorists (including most BMW drivers) are keen to learn, and are thinking and reasonable people. But in all honesty - and this has been my reason to quote what I did at the beginning of this post - this generally reasonable and right "recommendation" to only use left lanes for over-taking slower cars, then leave it immediately is counter-productive in some circumstances. Even here in Poland (not to even mention the German autobahns without speed limit, the number of which is shrinking by year unfortunately ), when someone drives really fast like over 200 km/h - in my opinion he/she should stay on the left lane permanently rather than change lanes constantly. The "return to the cruising lane to give way to those faster than you" started to create additional havoc on Polish motorways after people started to obey this recent rule, strongly advocated for by media, police and who not....And on the German speed limit-free autobahns, nobody in their BMWs, Porsches etc. covering long distances with a speed close to the car's limiter (ca. 150 mph, or 250 km/h) ever leaves the left lane, so they can righteously be called "fast lanes"! BUT: having said that, those drivers (most of whom really are the best ones) pay constant attention what's happening behind them on the fast lane they occupy: once they notice headlights of an even faster car closing the distance, they leave the fast lane immediately to give way...

So what is it I wanted to say, you may ask: well - basically that there are no hard rules that should never be broken, and everything (including not just the driving safety, but also traffic fluidity) is up to the human factor...The story described by the OP is the best illustration of that fact, and also (sorry pal - no offence meant) the best answer to the question if (and why) other drivers don't love us BMW owners too much... Even though, again generally speaking, statistical BMW driver is usually a good driver, in all countries all over the world.

Piotr

[USA-RET]

I've watched dash cam footage on Youtube of Russian drivers and it's hard to imagine any culture with worse driving.

That being said you make good point when referring to "No Speed Limit" Roads. It wouldn't make sense for a driver doing 130-140MPH or more to be moving over to the right lane. Such a move would mean he'd be approaching traffic ahead traveling in the right lane at say 70 MPH like they were standing still (similar to a parked car on a US Interstate). However, even then, he should still be aware of even faster traffic approaching from behind and move to the right to allow them to pass rather than assume he's the fastest and the lane is his.

In the U.S. Many drivers believe if they are doing the speed limit on any road entities them the use of the left lane continuously. Semi's have a way of motivating them to move to the right when all the see in their rear-view is a truck grille (and even then they will move back to the left lane when the truck passes).

While I agree that in residential and urban areas the left has to be utilized to make left turns, there are plenty of areas in and around the city where traffic is light, those car not wanting to turn left should stay to the right to allow faster cars to pass.

In Florida (bumper car central), our three lane city arteries have the left lanes of drivers doing the speed limit or less when the could just as easily be be in the center lane (or right lane).

I had an Illinois buddy visit us and when we went out in his car he immediately moved to the left lane and rode there @ the speed limit (cars were passing us to our right). I asked why he was in the left lane, his reply was because I like to. WTF! Sad part was we were going to be making a right turn about 2 miles up the road.

Down here we have both extremes, very slow and very fast drivers. I'm somewhere in the middle. On two lane country roads (where you have to enter the oncoming lane to pass) I generally run 5 over the limit ( do this to keep speed limit drivers behind me and those that want to push the envelop a bit happy to stay with me w/o passing). I'll still have guys run up my tail and ride it and take risks to get around me. If I run up behind someone doing the limit, I stay behind them. If they are not doing the speed limit I will wait for a safe time to pass or stay behind them if oncoming traffic is heavy.

I absolutely hate driving the 2 lane roads down here and will avoid them at all costs. You risk a head-on's from jerks passing in the on-coming lane or getting run off the road from someone trying to pass a line of cars and is facing an on coming Peterbilt and will run you ass off the road as he tried to merge back to save his.

FWIW, I'm the one who posed the question to the OP asking if he was in the left lane or not. It would be hard to reconcile someone riding up on his tail and flashing their lights if he was driving in the right lane, No?

[BEM-S4]

Yeah I don't fuck around with driving in Eastern Europe - any of the former "Stans."

It's actually, IMO, just easier and safer to drive when everyone is on the same page. Delhi where it's a free for all shit show, you know what to expect. Germany folks pretty much play by the same rules. Countries where they seize your car for driving under the influence you generally have less to worry about at 3AM.

US you've got a handful of people doing one thing, some doing another, etc etc. Outside of major cities there's relatively crap public transportation, we have cheap cars and cheap fuel compared to much of the world and in some cases crap roads - all contributes to problems with lots and lots of cars and folks driving like morons.

We also didn't have much of our infrastructure bombed to hell and rebuilt less than 100 years ago, and a lot of it needs a major update.

[amw896]

I find people usually hate on anything that's nicer than theirs. I got as much hater aid in my previous is350 as I do now. Funny enough, none in my mazda3.

[Maynard]

I suspect everybody fantasizes about that place over there where things actually run smoothly; perhaps a bit of romanticized spin on how great the euro zone is overall. I've heard some stories of times on the autobahn when it was decidedly NOT-good, with delivery trucks or beetles self-righteously pulling out to pass slower cars, even though somebody was bearing down on them at triple digits. And the French or Italians? DK about Spain or Portugal, but I'm guessing you could find good or bad anywhere; our problem in the US is how easy it is to get into a car, so you are dipping from a bigger (and thus stupider) pool.

[MarcoZandrini]

Originally Posted by aaaaah

So you were sitting in the fast lane for no reason then?

First of all, the road is a 3 lane secondary road with a 35mph speed limit. Second, I was in the right lane.

[MarcoZandrini]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

MarcoZandrini :
First: It's pretty evident that your behavior during the incident is what both prompted and perpetuated the road rage. Left-lane 'parking' isn't a good idea.

Second: I'm going to assume you're traveled, if not driven, in Europe. There, lane discipline is an art form, particularly in Germany and parts of Italy and France. It's downright dangerous to stay in the left lane there because faster traffic is often traveling at a rate of speed so much higher than general traffic's, it endangers both the slower and faster traveler. Adopt that mode of thinking and apply it in the U.S., and you'll encounter people like the SUV driver a lot less.

Third: The average U.S. driver is so underskilled compared to most of the rest of the Western world, why tempt fate? Every city has its share of left-lane hogs. Here, one should just assume that they're around, and that you'll encounter one eventually. Same applies to folks like the SUV driver; just assume they're around.

Fourth: There are already plenty of "Left lane is for passing only" (or somesuch) signs around. They do absolutely no good -- so much so, in fact, that the Federal law that bans passing in the right lane on Interstates is basically not enforced. Why? Because people don't obey the left-lane conventions and make travel dangerous because of unnatural road congestion ... speaking of which: Guess which vehicles get 'shot' first by LEOs clocking for speeders? Those in the left lane. That, in and of itself, should be reason enough not to remain in that lane ...

Fifth: Want to know the best way to learn lane discipline, quick? Ride a motorcycle. If you did what you did regularly on a bike, you'd likely be dead by now.

Bottom line: Only use the left lane for passing. Just do it. You'll be a happier driver, and the others around you will be happier drivers.

..
1. I was driving at the 35mph speed limit in the right lane. There is no passing lane as the road is a secondary street. I was mindimg my business when the Ford drove up and sat on my rear bumper. I don't think I was instigating anything.

2. Yes, I've driven all over the world, both as a service member (USN), and as a civilian. I've driven on the autobahn several times. I admire German drivers because of their discipline, especially when driving the autobahn. However, this road is a secondary road with a 35mph speed limit. There's no passing lane.

3. Concur. It takes a German 12 months and 1500 euros (in training costs) to get a license. I think we ought to do the same here.

4. See my #1. Also, there is no law in Virginia that requires you to pass on the left. As a result, we get DC drivers sitting in the left lane on the interstate. Very frustrating. At least now you can call the VA State Police and report a left lane hogger.

5. I rode for 4 years. I would NEVER ride in the metro-DC area.

Marco.

[MarcoZandrini]

Originally Posted by Supernaut

Not to defend the passive aggressive behavior of the OP, but who exactly said he was driving in the left lane? Not the OP. And "passing lanes" exist on highways (at least, theoretically in the US), not suburban 35 MPH roads with frequent intersections allowing left turns.

Again, I was driving at the 35mph speed limit in the right lane of a 3 lane secondary road. I was minduing my own business when the Ford driver decided to side on my rear bumper. I merely shifted into 3rd (it has a manual tranny, natch) but keep the same speed-35mph. He refused to change his driving so I slowed.

[MDF164]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

If I see someone driving aggressively like that, I just move over and let them pass and assume they have some emergency and give them benefit of the doubt.

^Words to live (and drive) by. Well said.

[MarcoZandrini]

Originally Posted by E46M54325Ci

I hate to say it but, OP: https://www.toyota.com/prius/

Ha! I've driven BMW since 1974 and refuse to buy another brand. Second, I've completed several BMWCCA HPDEs and a couple of courses at Bondurants when the school was at Sear Point International Raceway (then renamed Infineon, and now Sonoma). I know what I'm doing when I drive. I am non-aggressive 95% of the time.

[stevenvillatoro]

Originally Posted by MarcoZandrini

I am non-aggressive 95% of the time.

So, a 5% aggression rate is... good?

"Officer, 95% of the time I never drink and drive!" Oops!

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by MarcoZandrini

Ha! I've driven BMW since 1974 and refuse to buy another brand. Second, I've completed several BMWCCA HPDEs and a couple of courses at Bondurants when the school was at Sear Point International Raceway (then renamed Infineon, and now Sonoma). I know what I'm doing when I drive. I am non-aggressive 95% of the time.

I don't think anyone is questioning your skill. Based on your own description of the event, the topic is one of judgement on how to best handle this kind of situation without escalating it.

[Dylan86]

Originally Posted by stevenvillatoro

So, a 5% aggression rate is... good?

"Officer, 95% of the time I never drink and drive!" Oops!

Common, we all bought a BMW to drive "aggressively" at times

[aaaaah]

Originally Posted by MarcoZandrini

First of all, the road is a 3 lane secondary road with a 35mph speed limit. Second, I was in the right lane.

Good information to know because it puts you in the right up until you started responding to his behaviour in kind.

If you had just maintained your 35mph and never varied we wouldn't be having any discussion and it would just be the case of another tailgater.

Tailgaters are gonna tailgate, no matter what car you have. Unless it's a cop car and even then...

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Dylan86

Common, we all bought a BMW to drive "aggressively" at times

Perhaps semantics, but let's distinguish "aggressive" from "enthusiastic". "Aggressive"is inherently hostile to someone/something else, incorporating an attack readiness posture. Our OP experienced a reaction to that. Under the standard definition of the word, I cannot agree with your presumption...however, without confronting, interfering, displacing other drivers, many of us likely engage in driving "enthusiastically".

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Perhaps semantics, but let's distinguish "aggressive" from "enthusiastic". "Aggressive"is inherently hostile to someone/something else, incorporating an attack readiness posture. Our OP experienced a reaction to that. Under the standard definition of the word, I cannot agree with your presumption...however, without confronting, interfering, displacing other drivers, many of us likely engage in driving "enthusiastically".

Yes and to go a step further as I'm sure you'll agree "enthusiastic" has its time and place - basically enjoy your car without causing unnecessary risks to others sharing the road.

I just ran out to the cleaners and took the "caution twisty road next 2 miles" sign as a challenge - but that's on a dry, sunny weekday 1PM. Not dark rainy morning when kids will be running to the bus during rush hour.

[Dylan86]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

Perhaps semantics, but let's distinguish "aggressive" from "enthusiastic". "Aggressive"is inherently hostile to someone/something else, incorporating an attack readiness posture. Our OP experienced a reaction to that. Under the standard definition of the word, I cannot agree with your presumption...however, without confronting, interfering, displacing other drivers, many of us likely engage in driving "enthusiastically".

Okay, passive/aggressive ? lol, I joke.. But yea, I've been told I drive "Aggressive" according to opinions of primarily non-engaging drivers, "back-seat" for the lack of better terms. I call it, defensive driving.

My fiance would suggest I drive with enthusiasm, and I agree that would be the word of choice in this case. Her mother, though, another story. Too many opinions though, do what makes you smile

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by Dylan86

Too many opinions though, do what makes you smile

You can basically boil all major world religions down to this with the added qualifier of "as long as you're not ruining anyone else's fun in the process" which is I think pretty much where we all landed on this topic.

[Dylan86]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

You can basically boil all major world religions down to this with the added qualifier of "as long as you're not ruining anyone else's fun in the process" which is I think pretty much where we all landed on this topic.

Yes, precisely.

I'm personally faced with other challenges as well, in regard to driving in a spirited fashion, or even a WOT pass, legally. It's a very small community, my area, people talk, and have nothing better to do than video/photo people doing things and shaming them on social media. Sounds silly, I know, but this is what keeps them busy The worst part is I'm one of few sporty German cars in the area. If you drive a 'Vette, you'll get thumbs ups everywhere, people let you in ahead of them, etc. I feel like eyes are always on me, in this car, something I've yet to get used to. Not to mention the Diesel truck fans who want to try and "roll coal" on you as you go up the highway passes. Thankfully the F22 holds its ground going uphill! The main reason I always drove modded VW's was because you can "fly under the radar", as most wouldn't expect 320whp/390tq out of a 5-door GTI

For many reasons I love being in a small community. There's just a handful of things I wish were different, here. This is one of them.

Life could be A LOT worse, though

[3.0L]

Originally Posted by Dylan86

Too many opinions though, do what makes you smile

As in, crack a smile?

As the old saying goes, opinions are like a**holes; everybody has one.