[Rayscott]

Originally Posted by Rayscott

I am going to my local BMW dealer on friday to test drive a new 2016 228i. They have 4 in stock and 2 of them are Mineral grey with oyster interior in one and oyster black in the other. My first choice was Estoril blue/oyster but Mineral grey was my next choice. The pricing for the one with the oyster/black interior is 46,890 the other with oyster is 53,890. They do not list the packages or options so I'm guessing the 7K price differential means the more expensive one has more packages. The KBB fair price which I priced with most options less the Msport and THP was 46,086. That price is significantly lower than the pricier 228i so I wanted to get some advice as I am not a great car buyer. Thanks.

I know which model I want. I was hoping for some feedback on the pricing in my post. I did search and found a 228ix with most options in Estoril blue/oyster with the Mpackage in Towson Md. about 3 hours away for 51,395. That combo was my first choice. Can my dealer do a swap on that vehicle since they have a similar vehicle in their stock except it is Mineral grey. I am stopping by the dealership tomorrow so any advice would be appreciated.

[lukeeesteve]

Going through this very debate right now.

Past decisions...
2007.....335 vs 328 (I-6).... 335 won - no regrets
2013........x3 3.5 vs x3 2.8....3.5 with no regrets
2013........X1 3.5 vs X1 2.8.....3.5 won but I think that the 4 banger turbo might have been the better choice in this case partly because of the crappy 6 speed auto in the 3.5 and partly because this car feels heavy without the sports package.
Now, regarding the 2 series - I love how the 4 cylinder felt in a spirited test drive - it's the anti x3 / X1...refined, yet Light, nimble, enough power without overpowering its chassis. There is something magical less the exhaust/engine sounds the 235 provides.

Having driven only the inline 6 turbo for the last 9 years, I'm strongly/strangely considering a 228i With only the 8 speed auto + technology package + THP + LCA mod + LSD with the goal of keeping her as light as possible.

Perhaps I should clarify... The car will be for daily commute + auto-X + teaching a new teen to drive....no road trips.

By the time I make my decision it will be a 240 vs 230 debate.

[BarryJI]

lukeeesteve, that sounds like the optimal build for a 228! If you budget for a tune, aftermarket pipes and a peformance suspension, you'll be golden.

[Redbeemer]

My 2016 is currently in the shop with a weird computer problem, so I have been driving a new 228 for the past eight days. The loaner car is pretty much "bare bones", except for the 8sp auto transmission. The things that I miss on the 228 are not the larger engine; the 4 cyl. turbo is a really sweet engine and has plenty of power for everyday driving. What I do miss is the adaptive suspension which is much more compliant in Comfort mode than the standard suspension on the 228. I also miss the larger screen I have with the Nav. both for actual navigation as well as the backup camera and even album art for music. I also miss my Harman Kardon stereo system, even though it has been widely maligned by many on this forum. It definitely sounds better than the standard radio. I haven't had to use the stock brakes in a panic situation, but if I did, I suspect I would miss my Performance Brakes which I had the dealer install. That being said, most of the above equipment can be ordered on a 228, so it is not a compelling reason to buy the M235i. I do like the great balance of the 228 with the lighter engine up front, but the M235i is not exactly unbalanced when it comes to handling. I think BMW did a great job with the 228 and the M235i and, if appropriately equipped according to the owner's wishes, either can be a totally engaging daily driver or occasional track car. No 228 owner should ever have any reason to feel ashamed of their car, especially not the engine!

[ParkerJarvis]

Originally Posted by sunil_linus

I would say it is not subjective but factual that any - 35 model is superior to a base -28 model; just as an M model is obviously more prominent than the standard BMWs. Anyone that believes otherwise is just in plain denial... :::flame on:::

I agree completely.

In the end, it boils down to how much car is enough for any given person. For me, the 228i is just right.

Everyone posting on this forum is likely in the top 1% of wage earners (globally) and is driving a car beyond most people's wildest dreams. In my little world, buying a 228i at $45k was a crazy indulgence. For others, it's a drop in the bucket. For some people, their 2-series is their most valuable possession. For others, their home is worth 30-times what they paid for the car.

My philosophy is that if you are going to buy something, make sure you LOVE it, and don't regret it. It's just an effing car, in the end: disposable, recyclable, compostable, or all of the above.

[Rayscott]

Originally Posted by Redbeemer

My 2016 is currently in the shop with a weird computer problem, so I have been driving a new 228 for the past eight days. The loaner car is pretty much "bare bones", except for the 8sp auto transmission. The things that I miss on the 228 are not the larger engine; the 4 cyl. turbo is a really sweet engine and has plenty of power for everyday driving. What I do miss is the adaptive suspension which is much more compliant in Comfort mode than the standard suspension on the 228. I also miss the larger screen I have with the Nav. both for actual navigation as well as the backup camera and even album art for music. I also miss my Harman Kardon stereo system, even though it has been widely maligned by many on this forum. It definitely sounds better than the standard radio. I haven't had to use the stock brakes in a panic situation, but if I did, I suspect I would miss my Performance Brakes which I had the dealer install. That being said, most of the above equipment can be ordered on a 228, so it is not a compelling reason to buy the M235i. I do like the great balance of the 228 with the lighter engine up front, but the M235i is not exactly unbalanced when it comes to handling. I think BMW did a great job with the 228 and the M235i and, if appropriately equipped according to the owner's wishes, either can be a totally engaging daily driver or occasional track car. No 228 owner should ever have any reason to feel ashamed of their car, especially not the engine!

I agree.

[Hops128i]

Originally Posted by sunil_linus

but factual that any - 35 model is superior to a base -28 model; just as an M model is obviously more prominent than the standard BMWs. Anyone that believes otherwise is just in plain denial... :::flame on:::

Superior in what sense? It's all how you're using the car. For autocross, and the few track days i do, a e90 328i manual with sport package is superior to a auto e90 335xi non-sport vert.

Interesting you mentioned dynamics, but probably you didn't think about dynamics of actually turning the car, in which case the sport suspensions of the lighter car is slightly better.

I think you're in denial of how a marketed class hierarchy has formed your view more than what the car actually is.

[Kolyan2k]

Originally Posted by Hops128i

Superior in what sense? It's all how you're using the car. For autocross, and the few track days i do, a e90 328i manual with sport package is superior to a auto e90 335xi non-sport vert.

Interesting you mentioned dynamics, but probably you didn't think about dynamics of actually turning the car, in which case the sport suspensions of the lighter car is slightly better.

I think you're in denial of how a marketed class hierarchy has formed your view more than what the car actually is.

We are talking about 200 lbs....its less if you loose some weight and opt for manual, and get LSD for planted cornering .....check out review on S550 coupe, I think its like 4800 lbs and everyone is impressed how well it handles and how light it feels. Suspension, tires, power, LSD, etc all make a car feel lighter and perform better even if it weights more

[Hops128i]

Originally Posted by Kolyan2k

We are talking about 200 lbs....its less if you loose some weight and opt for manual, and get LSD for planted cornering .....check out review on S550 coupe, I think its like 4800 lbs and everyone is impressed how well it handles and how light it feels. Suspension, tires, power, LSD, etc all make a car feel lighter and perform better even if it weights more

actually it's less weight, but over the front wheels... and I said the improvement is 'slight' I'm not asserting the dynamics are superior, only countering the absurd idea that the higher model number regardless of configuration is superior to the lower number

[Rayscott]

Originally Posted by Rayscott

I know which model I want. I was hoping for some feedback on the pricing in my post. I did search and found a 228ix with most options in Estoril blue/oyster with the Mpackage in Towson Md. about 3 hours away for 51,395. That combo was my first choice. Can my dealer do a swap on that vehicle since they have a similar vehicle in their stock except it is Mineral grey. I am stopping by the dealership tomorrow so any advice would be appreciated.

My dealer found a new 228i estoril /oyster black leather M package all options except driver assistance plus but it does have the HK sound system. 52,300 is asking price. KBB lists fair price as 49,013. What do you think.

[qnet]

Originally Posted by Rayscott

My dealer found a new 228i estoril /oyster black leather M package all options except driver assistance plus but it does have the HK sound system. 52,300 is asking price. KBB lists fair price as 49,013. What do you think.

That seems like too much. I didn't pay that much for my M235i.

[Poochie]

I own a 235 and I recently drove a 228i. It was a fully covered loaner car, so was able operate it in a "spirited" manner Honestly, I didn't find was it lacking in the power and handling department; there were more than enough pep that some might even call it fast. I feel like the only thing that directly separates the two cars are the motor. The 228's power had to be rung out the engine, where in the 235 the instant surge of power is just there, at your big toes, just patiently waiting to be unleashed.. Now with that in mind, because of the higher power output of the 235, critical parts such as brake boaster, internal engine parts, suspension geometry, ect are made inherently better and stronger to accommodate the increase strain and power delivery of such car. Minor engineering difference that might not be blatantly obvious to the public and probably could not be quantified but together, when looked at in a complete package, puts the 235 in the "better" category IMHO. Since the 228 could be had with almost any part the 235 have available, it would be asinine to say one is superior than the other.. But we can't deny that the -28 models of BMWs are made, dare I say, at a lower engineered standard to keep its overall cost down compared to the -35s. I know I could probably not get this point across without some -28 owners feeling like I'm ragging on their ride but I will say that both cars are excellent in its own rights and both cater to a different audience, so at the end of the day, if you're contented with your purchase and the price you paid, you win!

[rams]

Originally Posted by sunil_linus

But we can't deny that the -28 models of BMWs are made, dare I say, at a lower engineered standard to keep its overall cost down compared to the -35s.

What a load of BS

[Poochie]

Thanks for your insight. You must be a -28 owner getting butthurt. Take some of that money you saved on the slower one and buy yourself some class.

Originally Posted by rams

What a load of BS

[rams]

Originally Posted by sunil_linus

But we can't deny that the -28 models of BMWs are made, dare I say, at a lower engineered standard to keep its overall cost down compared to the -35s.

What a load of BS

[Tpeterson]

Originally Posted by rams

What a load of BS

I agree 100%. Performance standards, maybe. But not engineering ones.

[ParkerJarvis]

Originally Posted by sunil_linus

... critical parts such as brake boaster, internal engine parts, suspension geometry, ect are made inherently better and stronger to accommodate the increase strain and power delivery of such car.

He lost me at "brake boaster."

[Sportstick]

The misperceptions and loose use of language seem to be continuing unabated. As a 31 year veteran of this industry, 25 inside a car manufacturer and the rest at suppliers, I'll take another shot at this topic.

Remember the old question about whether a glass is half-full or half-empty? An engineer would point out that it's neither. The glass is simply twice the size it needed to be.

If BMW, or any other company, wants to provide an array of products to separate willing buyers from an increasing amount of their money, they need to vary some attributes to attract those who are increasingly interested. So, one model may be faster, quieter, more plush, have more features standard, etc. So, we have "more" of some attributes that some people, but not others, are willing to pay for, but there is no objective measure of "better". It's just more or less of whatever attribute we are measuring.

So, then we may have a larger, faster engine. That usually brings increases in mass. And, that cascades through the car with higher capability engine mounts, suspension pieces, brakes, etc. Yes, larger brakes would seem to offer more stopping power, but they may be larger enough just to offset the increased mass they need to stop. Same with a supposedly (but not really) "better" suspension part. It's bigger and heavier because it has to be just to maintain the same level of capability as the smaller lighter one can be in the car with less mass from a lighter engine. The most skilled engineers will design the part to be "right-sized", neither lacking in capacity, nor "over-engineered", wasting cost and weight.

So, while a -35 series vehicle may always be faster in a straight line than a -28 series vehicle, there is nothing objectively "better" about the car. The quality and design objectives are the same, the supplier audit standards are the same, the assembly audit standards are the same. One simply has parts which make it go faster and other parts to cope with that difference. All the discussion of the mysterious "tuning" actually turns out just to be developing a capable system of components which support the functional and dynamic objectives of a car with a larger engine versus a similar vehicle with a smaller engine. Neither better, nor worse, just two different jobs to do with two different (and appropriately so) engineering solutions.

So, one more time, can those who are desperately seeking to attach themselves to something "better" please just give it up? You are on a fruitless mission of ego-support, but on a foundation of air. Buy what pleases you, comfort yourself with the thought, "This is better for me!", and the car companies, such as the one I toiled at for my career, will be pleased to exchange your dollars for the privilege. I guess the superiority fantasy comes along for free, if you are so inclined, but it really is not logically defensible.

[Rayscott]

Originally Posted by qnet

That seems like too much. I didn't pay that much for my M235i.

I got him down 4K and got 2K more for my Jeep trade in. Best I could do. It is a vert.

[Poochie]

This would not even be a discussion if the few eunuchs on this forum would of just spent the extra money and spring for a 235 or even an M2, if possible.. :: These cars are made more performance oriented, where as the 228 is made with more efficiency and cost cutting considerations.. That's why they use the -28s for loaners cars, women drivers, or former Corolla S-owners..

When your wife told you that size doesn't matter, she was just not trying to hurt your feelings - shake off the denial and get yourself the bigger motor - it matters!! Get the 235!

[SteveInfante]

Lots of hot air in this thread. Buy what makes you happy. Who cares if someone thinks their car is "better" than yours.

[rams]

Originally Posted by sunil_linus

When your wife told you that size doesn't matter, she was just not trying to hurt your feelings - shake off the denial and get yourself the bigger motor - it matters!! Get the 235!

Is this why you got the 235?