[p912guy]

Road and Track recently published a list of The Best Cars Nobody Bought in 2017

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...-2017/?slide=2

and the website Gear Patrol looked at that list and recently published These 13 Slow-Selling Cars Will Be Future Classics.

https://gearpatrol.com/2018/01/16/13...-cars-of-2017/

and our beloved 2er made both lists.

I have pointed out in other threads in this forum what a well kept secret our 2 Series is among the buying public, mostly in my mind because it's not a 3/4 Series and it's not an SUV or truck. Like many others on this forum, one of the reasons I purchase my M235i was because it is somewhat rare and special and not something you see often on the road. To the point being made by the folks at Gear Patrol that our 2er might be a future collectible because of it's relative rarity, I'd like to believe them, however if true I'd guess it'll be several years from now and my M235i will be well used and likely long gone by then. That said if the 2er becomes even somewhat collectible, it'll likely be enthusiast models like the M2 or possibly MT equipped 235 / 240 versions, like my 6MT vert. Only time will tell, but I'm not going to hold my breath. Interesting viewpoints none the less.

[emtrey]

unlikely for the 235/240 vehicles, IMHO. Maybe the M2s but might even be too many of them being sold.

As fewer and fewer 3 pedal cars are available in the market, there might be some added value to those cars.

Having owned 2 , now collectibles, it takes a long time to see serious collector status.

Condition and originality are of major importance so you will have to spend money to attain/preserve collector car values.

[Maynard]

I think we are destined to be those first owners who really use them. Sad that most of the 'classics' only get a few hundred miles a year once they hit their stride (aka past the depreciation curve) - understandable when they are worth a few hundred grand (OK maybe 50K+), and depreciation can cut that in half for a small fender bender. If you calculate what storage and upkeep cost to 'mothball' a car and keep it pristine, they tend to suck as collectibles - better to put yr money in the stock market. Not to mention the intangible 'cost' of having a great car that you don't use. You can't put a price on memories.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by Maynard

I think we are destined to be those first owners who really use them. Sad that most of the 'classics' only get a few hundred miles a year once they hit their stride (aka past the depreciation curve) - understandable when they are worth a few hundred grand (OK maybe 50K+), and depreciation can cut that in half for a small fender bender. If you calculate what storage and upkeep cost to 'mothball' a car and keep it pristine, they tend to suck as collectibles - better to put yr money in the stock market. Not to mention the intangible 'cost' of having a great car that you don't use. You can't put a price on memories.

There's also a difference between collectible and valuable. If you want valuable the M2 manual is your best bet, in LBB, earliest build date possible and no miles. But the production run is too big for a 1M freakish performance from that perspective.

Collectible yes our cars will stay popular but not necessarily be worth a ton of money in the near to medium term. Long term I'm still undecided on more modest performance cars vs exotics. Reason being 30 years from now who knows what it will cost to insure and drive a self driven gasoline powered car. Could very well become quite expensive and tax the hobby beyond many folks desire to spend.

[msej449]

It seems rather disingenuous of R&T to name the 2 Series in this way given the downer they had on the M235i. Typical journalists.

[Merc for hire]

Future Collectible for a mass produced and relatively affordable car? No, the 2 Series will depreciate and depreciate into the 4 digits price range.

[CP911]

Future collectible? Nah. Desirable in the future by driving enthusiasts? Most certainly, if spec'ed correctly (RWD/MT) and kept in super condition w/ low miles. I see it almost like a Porsche. You could probably get exactly what you paid 15 years later if you don't drive it from day 1 and keep it in museum condition. Otherwise, you take the normal depreciation hit based on miles driven, condition, vehicle history, etc. My 2 cents anyways...

[wdc330i]

Originally Posted by CP911

Future collectible? Nah. Desirable in the future by driving enthusiasts? Most certainly, if spec'ed correctly (RWD/MT) and kept in super condition w/ low miles. I see it almost like a Porsche. You could probably get exactly what you paid 15 years later if you don't drive it from day 1 and keep it in museum condition. Otherwise, you take the normal depreciation hit based on miles driven, condition, vehicle history, etc. My 2 cents anyways...

Agreed. And frankly, I'd venture just for the convertible M240. Otherwise, the M2 in above condition.

[morphomeman]

The car does seem to retain value more than others. I just checked out my 2015 m235x with 30K miles and a very few bells and whistles (no nav.) on Kelley BB and got an average retail value of $32K, or a bit more than 60% of the original sticker price, not bad for a 3-year-old mass-market vehicle.

[Rayscott]

I owned a 00 and 04 Honda S2000. Paid about 35K for the 04. An 03 was just bought at auction for 71K. It only had 843 miles on it. That is incredible except the car was not driven much. I'm sure my S2000's wouldn't come close to those numbers. Unless I garaged them for 16 years or so. I didn't, I drove them and had a blast. If you can afford to sit on a vehicle for all those years fine but I couldn't. No regrets.

[JordW]

I'm hoping mine may be sought after in years to come. It's a 2015 convertible in manual. Looking at a site that monitors our UK registrations to show how many of each model car is still on the road they are only showing 634 manual M235i's vs 2.5k autos. Bear in mind this is both coupe and convertible. The coupe was introduced Q1 of 2014 and the convertible wasn't introduced until Q2 of 2015. Who knows... ?

[emtrey]

Why not look at M roadster prices as a gauge. Great car ( I had one), never a big seller.
Likely has retained value more than a Z3 of the same vintage but collector car money, unlikely.

Personally, I find that article misguided. Just because a car does not sell well does not earmark it as a future collector car.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by emtrey

Why not look at M roadster prices as a gauge. Great car ( I had one), never a big seller.
Likely has retained value more than a Z3 of the same vintage but collector car money, unlikely.

Personally, I find that article misguided. Just because a car does not sell well does not earmark it as a future collector car.

I think the roadster is probably a good gauge - although folks would hope for something more like the coupe.

THAT SAID - a number of factors could drive up prices. Say the next 2-series is released with no option for a manual transmission, then the one after that goes all electric or hybrid or AWD only. We're like 10 years out from the next-next version of the car - so the timing is theoretically possible.

So the M2 could be the last smaller coupe, ICE, RWD, manual trans, that BMW makes. In which case that could be like the M Coupe, which pricing wise would go nuts, then drag the M240 along for the ride for folks who want to spend 50% of the money for 80% of the car (PLEASE DO NOT START ARGUING ABOUT THE %s I CHOSE FOR ILLUSTRATIVE PURPOSES).

And to your final point of not selling well = future collector, if you watch Pawn Stars or American Picker or any of that stuff, they say all the time "sometimes they're rare because only a few were made... because they were crap then and no one bought them and they are crap now and no one wants them."

[emtrey]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

I think the roadster is probably a good gauge - although folks would hope for something more like the coupe.

THAT SAID - a number of factors could drive up prices. Say the next 2-series is released with no option for a manual transmission, then the one after that goes all electric or hybrid or AWD only. We're like 10 years out from the next-next version of the car - so the timing is theoretically possible.

So the M2 could be the last smaller coupe, ICE, RWD, manual trans, that BMW makes. In which case that could be like the M Coupe, which pricing wise would go nuts, then drag the M240 along for the ride for folks who want to spend 50% of the money for 80% of the car (PLEASE DO NOT START ARGUING ABOUT THE %s I CHOSE FOR ILLUSTRATIVE PURPOSES).

And to your final point of not selling well = future collector, if you watch Pawn Stars or American Picker or any of that stuff, they say all the time "sometimes they're rare because only a few were made... because they were crap then and no one bought them and they are crap now and no one wants them."

I think the chances for any manual trans, high perf. cars to retain/increase in value could increase dramatically as elec. cars, hybrids become the most available options in the future.

For me, I'd be happy if hydraulic steering made a comeback.

My C2S ( 997.1) is a 3 pedal, NA, hydraulic steering vehicle. I would not trade it[ even up for a brand new 911

Its low mileage (23K), stored in winters, super clean. Do I think I will ever get what I paid for it , let alone 3 times as much ? NO WAY. But in the meantime I am driving a great car I love and if it starts to creep up in value it become more appealing.

Then, who would have thought the air cooled Porsches would have gone crazy in the last 3 years.

I have a friend who had a limited production Ferrari. Bought it for 40K, sold for 400K and now it would be worth of 2 million. Ya never know.....

[aozer]

Originally Posted by emtrey

I have a friend who had a limited production Ferrari. Bought it for 40K, sold for 400K and now it would be worth of 2 million. Ya never know.....

well, with a limited production ferrari, you kind of do know. 2 series isnt even in the same league.

[emtrey]

Originally Posted by aozer

well, with a limited production ferrari, you kind of do know. 2 series isnt even in the same league.

For sure. Ferraris / 2 series- way different markets and potential.

When he bought the 275GTB , 40K was top $$ for the car. To even think it could go to 2 million plus would have been laughable.

[Merc for hire]

Jokers can invest in a M2, M235i, etc. Smart $ invest in the stock market.

[harma24]

You can collect it if you want. I bought mine to drive. And drive it I will until either it or I can drive no more!

[qnet]

I don't know about a collectible, but it is a rare car around my neighborhood. Now that I think about it, I don't see hardly any M cars or even 2 series around that much. I see plenty of 3 & 4 series. The only time I see M cars or even a 2 series is when I'm on the north side of Atlanta.

[p912guy]

I don't think the www.gearpatrol.com author meant to imply all these cars would be good collectible investments. Clearly, it is the very rare car, like a Ferrari, that can be purchased, enjoyed in a very limited way and also provide a ROI. I think, the author's point is these are all under-appreciated cars now and in the next 10-20 years, as product offerings change and trend away from cars which are "fun to drive", these may be cars those of us who love to drive, hang onto (collect) and revere, thus limiting their long term depreciation. Who in 1969 purchased a very common and inexpensive "muscle car" of the era thinking someday it would be collectible? Who in the mid 80's bought an E30 M3 thinking it would be as desirable in 2018 as it is today? I certainly don't own my m235i as an investment - it is a depreciating asset. However, if trends continue, and the autonomous vehicle becomes commonplace, there will always be men and women like us who appreciate a RWD, m235i convertible with 6 MT. I think that's the author's point. So, if my m235i depreciates a bit less compared to a Camry, Accord or a fairly common 328i, and I get to drive it everyday and enjoy it, I am all for that. That was my point in starting the thread.

[VIN240i13]

Originally Posted by Merc for hire

Jokers can invest in a M2, M235i, etc. Smart $ invest in the stock market.

Agree, smart money goes in the stock market, you don’t have to be a financial wizard to find stocks that can became the foundation of a solid portfolio with returns far above what a bank provides these days; tons of stock investment research material available if one simply devotes the required time to learn. Unless you have $$$ to burn and the mechanical background to do the maintenance and/or restorations yourself, considering an automobile as an “investment” is not a wise financial move.

[XutvJet]

I have not doubt that a manual 228, M235, M240, and M2 (either tranny) will be viewed as classics 20 years from now. 3 to 5 years from now? Nope. Expect fairly typical German car depreciation; however, the manuals will always command a little more money. It's smaller market that want the manual, but they are undoubtedly willing to pay more.